Quick query, for those of you who's characters reach apotheosis or spawndom at Corruption 100, what do your rough final experience points end up as? I ask as an average of course, some of your GMs may be lenient or harsh with the points.

I have a character at around 15,000xp that has an infamy of 98 and a corruption score in the 40s.

Others in my group have xp that ranges from 13 to 17,000, with lower infamy and higher corruption; one guy is nearly at 70 corruption and is not the highest xp owner in the party (I believe his infamy is in the 50s).

Currently in that game I am quite fearful that I will be killed in order to lower my infamy score and raise my corruption level because I am well on my way of cresting that 100-point infamy mark; my GM wants the game to continue for a while longer before the apotheosis mark.

Meanwhile the guy with a 70ish corruption has gotten that way because he's died twice; once was my fault (I sent out a psychic message to the group, not really realizing that I could set off our Khorne Berserkers' fenzy, and he attacked and killed that guy with a single hit).

That said, our highest xp holder only has an infamy in the 50s (with a corruption in the 20-30 range I believe). She is trying for a marginally uncorrupted character, but that has stymied her infamy growth as well.

My best personal guess is that it will be another 10,000xp before the apotheosis mark for me. Yet, I'd wager that our one marine with the 70ish corruption will be smashing past 100 in the next 3-4,000xp.

Not to worry, need 100 Corruption as well for that Apotheosis, not only 100 Infamy. Both. Granted, soon your character is more famous than Huron Blackheart so I do hope he/she/it does some really noteworthy stuff.

A part of me thinks that beyond a certain point one needs to do really infamous stuff to actually raise ones Infamy, torching planets and whatnot. And the main signer of a compact should really gain more Infamy as he/she/it is the driving force. If a PC acts more like a henchman or minion they really shouldnt get that much infamy.

My main atm, we dont really play as often as I would like, is at 7k exp, 61 Infamy and 30 Corruption.

Not to worry, need 100 Corruption as well for that Apotheosis, not only 100 Infamy. Both. Granted, soon your character is more famous than Huron Blackheart so I do hope he/she/it does some really noteworthy stuff.

A part of me thinks that beyond a certain point one needs to do really infamous stuff to actually raise ones Infamy, torching planets and whatnot. And the main signer of a compact should really gain more Infamy as he/she/it is the driving force. If a PC acts more like a henchman or minion they really shouldnt get that much infamy.

My main atm, we dont really play as often as I would like, is at 7k exp, 61 Infamy and 30 Corruption.

My character is basically a craftsman of note and a walking library.

I actually feel I shouldn't be as famous as I am, but I have done some incredible things - I've shaped the growth of several different peoples, worked the ritual to steal a planet, and in record time, turned a factory used to producing appliances into one that produced autoguns, which were used to both fight a rebellion and repel a Necron incursion. I have to say infact that this character has been the most rewarding non-combat character I've ever played.

The highest player (see below) is currently at 84 infamy, 30'ish corruption and has attained approximately 11000xp

The infamy 'ascendancy' goal in that campaign is set to 150 and it is the corruption gain which is lagging behind, because the players in that group are cautious, ever so cautious.

As a rough approximation then, every infamy point seems to grant roughly 100xp - 150xp based on what you guys have said so far. But this is just rough guesses. Seems about right I would guess.

Depending on how one approaches it one can gain Infamy very fast. Complete Compacts satisfactorily, blasphemous acts of devotion, bind daemonic steeds, killing devotees of opposing faiths...

The infamy 'ascendancy' goal in that campaign is set to 150 and it is the corruption gain which is lagging behind, because the players in that group are cautious, ever so cautious.

Meh, if they want corruption, there are ways to get some, and fast!

Rituals work well IIRC.

The infamy 'ascendancy' goal in that campaign is set to 150 and it is the corruption gain which is lagging behind, because the players in that group are cautious, ever so cautious.

Meh, if they want corruption, there are ways to get some, and fast!

Rituals work well IIRC.

Oh yes,!

But the thing is, all the "Daemon-truckers" in the party are dead.

You know what's great about rituals?

...Minions can do them.

If you don't mind the XP sink, you (alone or in conjunction with other party members) can get three Greater minions for 2250 xp. Each one has INT/WP 40, +20 in the relevant ritual skill, Unnatural Int/WP 4 (or better), Psy Rating 4, Sacrifice talent, Butcher's Offering, and Foresight.

Int 40, Skill +20, Foresight-contemplation to get +10, two minions assisting for +20, +10 from PR4, +10 for Rule of Sympathy (you should always be able to follow this), +20 for using sacred numbers (you should also be able to do this, with reasonable preparation), +20 from using Butcher's Offering with the sacrifice talent, +2 DoS from unnatural attributes +2 DoS from assistance. That's not including any equipment or benefits from ritual space, and you've still achieved +150 +4DoS, using the ritual modifiers table in Excess. The numbers are even better in the Core Book.

It's not guaranteed success, and they'll die from corruption after every other ritual (GM discretion), but once you've established a lore-cult of sorcerers on Q'Sal to keep getting replacements, it hardly matters. Once you have your micro-cult stocked, you can summon bloodletters into bolters once a month, or even once a year, without being personally involved- and with the unnatural attributes, you'll never have a shortage of DoS.

Go ahead and get the corpse renderer, a ritual knife, and a santified space to go with it. Then have your minions perform the ritual... far, far away from you. The rite is done, but you don't get the warp exposure (there may still be some corruption involved depending on GM. It's... debatable, and at GM discretion of course). Getting fancy with gear is beyond the scope of this treatise.

This is how Radical Inquisitors do it- let the grunts suffer the effects, so that they can remain "pure" to use the tools.

Editted to quote "pure" because anyone ordering this kind of stuff done is decidedly not.

That's an interesting stratagem, Annaamarth. Let the minions do the dirty work... However, what do the dark gods think of characters who are too cowardly to do their own rituals? What do the minions think? The 40K universe, as a general rule, expects the elite to lead from the front. (I remember a loooooooooooong discussion on the Rogue Trader boards about why the RT always leads the away team.) If the minions are the ones summoning the daemons and getting 'face time' with the Ruinous Powers, they might well end up eclipsing their timid "masters" at least in the eyes of Chaos... and perhaps in their own eyes.

In other words, your tactic works great from a rules mechanic perspective, but horribly from a fluff perspective. Personally, if my players tried this, I'd allow it. Once. After that, well, things can go wrong. Some suggestions: 1. You ordered the ritual, you eat the karmic debt (i.e. corruption) just as much as a participant. 2. You are worthless and weak! Your 'minions' complete a ritual you are too cowardly to attempt! Kiss your infamy goodbye, loser! 3. There's nothing that says a minion can't rebel, and if they're eating all the risk for no gain, that's a big incentive to do just that, particularly if #2 is also happening.

Just my $0.02 worth.

- V.

How do the Dark Gods usually feel about someone willing to sacrifice their minions to do the dirty work? Pretty sure that's how Abaddon does it. Having crazy heretics eager to sacrifice themselves for your honor is a pretty common trope too.

Of course you could make the players suffer corruption too, because they did order the ritual performed to the detriment of their minions- I did say that it was debatable, yes?

That said, I could also see a minor infamy hit in each ritual case, because it is a... cautious technique. This also prevents players from turning a small group of minions into a daemon-weapon production line.

It's all about what the guy running the game will let you get away with, and how they interpret the whims of Chaos. It's also how they player got their and why they run it that way. How did they get the minions, and how do they maintain loyalty, and how do they replace them when they melt into warp-goo? So on and so forth.

It's not a fool-proof method, but it can be useful.

My knowledge is a little rusty on rituals, do you need to spend experience points to learn them or are they considered learned in game?

The GM could simply rule that the complexity of the ritual is beyond your minion's ability or add to the experience cost in learning the ritual. And then every time your minions turned to cosmic goo you would need to teach the next lot, potentially this act of showing how the ritual works could incur corruption each and every time.

Or I could be completely off, as I said I haven't read up on rituals in some time

There's no XP requirement. How they are acquired/learned is up to the GM.

My group, whoever runs, generally forces the ritualist to acquire each ritual individually. Acquisition tests can do it, or help, and lore tests to research them can help too. Occult, Astromancy, Numerology, Daemonology, and the Warp are all good lore skills to base such research rolls off of.

We may be more willing to let you get away with stuff than Vandegraf's group, but we still make you work for it.

Agreed. It's a "character knowledge" thing.

I'd have no problem with the cadre of daemonologis minions to perform rituals for you. However, given what they're doing, how dangerous it is, and how much power you're putting into their hands, I would insist on regular loyalty tests.

If your briefing to your minions is:

"Please summon the Soul-Eating World Devourer of the Blood God and ask him the following list of questions once I've left the building and got to a safe distance and hidden in a warded bunker."

Then loyalty tests are not uncalled for.

I would give you a less demanding test if you were at least prepared to be present, even if your skills aren't up to "leading from the front". Hell, even if not, a melee combatant can still help in a ritual - stand inside the circle with the sacrifices, and once your minions have summoned it, keep it "busy" for a few rounds whilst they try and bind it....