Thoughts on this as a potential Elite Pilot Talent upgrade? Haven't focused on balancing it, perfecting the language, etc--more interested in whether people think this could be an interesting addition to the game.

Title: Quick Shot

Cost: 2

Type: Elite Pilot Talent

Text: Action: Perform a primary weapon attack. You may not perform an attack during the Combat Phase this round.

You could also make it a Modification card, though I'd think that would have to make it (significantly) more expensive.

Interesting idea but the major issue I see is that it all but makes Pilot Skill useless. I mean what is the point in taking a PS9 pilot if he can be destroyed in the Activation phase by a PS4 Pilot? The major benefit to PS is shooting first and potentially destroying a ship before it can fire. Your idea means that a squad of Black Squadron Pilots with this upgrade can destroy my Wedge before he even gets to fly or use his own "Quick Shot" upgrade. So as interesting as it is, I really don't see a way to make such an attack in the activation phase a viable game option without ruining the game

This is an interesting concept, no worse than dropping a prox mine on someone... but it gives a pilot a chance to take a shot before a higher Skilled pilot.. I have no clues to the balance or possible ramifications to something like this..

Interesting though.. very interesting...

You know, I think this ability is overpowered. It really screws up the benefits of PS as mentioned previously. However, I think it's cost is just about right if you add the following:

'Discard this Upgrade'.

Now, a one time use card for 2 points, allowing you to shoot before anything else, that's an attractive card.

Overpowered as written. No one has even mentioned how insane this would be with advanced sensors either

I could also see this working as

2pts EPT

"Action: During the combat phase this round, treat this ships PS value as 12"

I think this is much better since it doesnt break the game, but allows you to do what you want to. A personal Swarm Tactics for a guy that already has an EPT (and presumably, a higher innate PS anyway). You also lose your action so the shot will likely be relatively weak unless you managed to get a TL the previous turn and/or got a free action some other way.

I'm not sure it is as overpowering as some other people. The real price of the card is your action. And if it an Elite Pilot Upgrade then it can only be put on pilots that have at least a medium pilots skill already. I would definitely be against this card as a modification. Also the fact that is specifies a primary weapon attack also prevents a little abuse.

I would say that it is worth at lest 3 points.

Actually a 2 point card granting PS 12 is game breaking... I think it has potential, just a better cost... 3 maybe would be better.

(VI is only 1 point but grants +2 to PS)

I'm not sure it is as overpowering as some other people. The real price of the card is your action. And if it an Elite Pilot Upgrade then it can only be put on pilots that have at least a medium pilots skill already. I would definitely be against this card as a modification. Also the fact that is specifies a primary weapon attack also prevents a little abuse.

I would say that it is worth at lest 3 points.

I dont think the issue with what he had was the shooting first, but rather the shooting before your opponent even gets to move. "Oh you are higher PS than my guy with this? Great, you are a sitting duck, I maneuver to Range 1 and try and blow you up before you move."

If you make it so they just shoot first in the combat round, it is a lot less abuseable.

The big difference i see between this and a mine/bomb is that a bomb can be avoided. A good pilot can look at your bomber card and remember "This guy has a prox mine so I'm not going to fly through his backwash". With a shot, there is no way to avoid consistently being in someones arc and therefore avoid the damage. Especially when they get to fly first.

But if something like this were done i would agree that it needs to be further restricted. Maybe resticted to particular types of ships or make it some sort of unique card (like squad leader), or discard after one use. Or some combination of those. I like this type of thinking though that tries to add more layers to the game and give more build options.

Actually a 2 point card granting PS 12 is game breaking... I think it has potential, just a better cost... 3 maybe would be better.

uh what? You are aware that there is a 2 pt card that essentially grants PS 9 to anyone in range 1 right? And that it doesn't take an action to use? Just sayin'....

Actually a 2 point card granting PS 12 is game breaking... I think it has potential, just a better cost... 3 maybe would be better.

uh what? You are aware that there is a 2 pt card that essentially grants PS 9 to anyone in range 1 right? And that it doesn't take an action to use? Just sayin'....

There is also a ship that gives out PS 12

I'll agree on the bomb aspect.. but a prox mine is an action and can be harder to second guess..

This card would give anyone a first shot ability, and I thinknthe one use is a good resrtiction. I also think making it as Hida77 suggested is too overpowered and game breaking.. that PS 12 idea is not how I think it should go. That's why I equatednit to dropping a prox mine and not just bombs in general..

Attacking during activation is a nonstarter, I think, for the reasons stated above.

Modifying the PS of the pilot seems like a better move, but is it? There are several cards and abilities that immediately make this redundant (like Veteran Instincts, for one).

Might it be better to consider modifying not the pilot's PS, but rather her initiative? What about:

Focus: Resolve ties in the pilot's favor, regardless of which player holds initiative.

This would let the pilot shoot first against opponents with the same PS, when shooting first is crucial. Potent, situationally useful, but not necessarily gamebreaking (as far as I can figure it at this point - someone may well prove that wrong).

Actually a 2 point card granting PS 12 is game breaking... I think it has potential, just a better cost... 3 maybe would be better.

uh what? You are aware that there is a 2 pt card that essentially grants PS 9 to anyone in range 1 right? And that it doesn't take an action to use? Just sayin'....

Only for 1 ship.. not everyone with a EP slot.. so no problem.. your PS 12 gives every EPS the chance for it.. I little broken if you ask me.. especially for 2 points.. 5 points keeps it a little fair.

What would you rather do, focus and shoot second, or shoot first? Sure this depends on the circumstances, but if you are playing Rebels, you probably have the hits to take a shot and shoot back. If you are playing Imperials then you likely only have 2 attack dice, and really need that focus to shoot, or stay alive.

IMO the moving (and taking actions) 2nd is at least as important as shooting first.

I should point out the obvious broken combination here. Kath Scarlet.

Put Quick Shot on Kath. She moves, then attacks a higher PS pilot, like Wedge. Kath rolls a crit, which Wedge evades. Wedge has a Stress Token. Then, Wedge's move he reveals a red maneuver. Now, you get to change the dial and fly him off the map.

Not bad for 2 points.

I'll agree on the bomb aspect.. but a prox mine is an action and can be harder to second guess..

This card would give anyone a first shot ability, and I thinknthe one use is a good resrtiction. I also think making it as Hida77 suggested is too overpowered and game breaking.. that PS 12 idea is not how I think it should go. That's why I equatednit to dropping a prox mine and not just bombs in general..

You are right bout the prox mine action. But it is much harder to pull off a move that leaves your backside in prime position to drop a proximity deuce on a ship than it is to just fire on anything in front of you which is what this card would allow. And again the Prox mine is a one use card and cost 3 points.

The big difference i see between this and a mine/bomb is that a bomb can be avoided. A good pilot can look at your bomber card and remember "This guy has a prox mine so I'm not going to fly through his backwash". With a shot, there is no way to avoid consistently being in someones arc and therefore avoid the damage. Especially when they get to fly first.

But if something like this were done i would agree that it needs to be further restricted. Maybe resticted to particular types of ships or make it some sort of unique card (like squad leader), or discard after one use. Or some combination of those. I like this type of thinking though that tries to add more layers to the game and give more build options.

That's exactly what I was going for with this concept. I personally like the idea of making the activation phase less safe and/or more dynamic--to me, the thought of flying up on someone's rear and unleashing a surprise barrage before they're able to fly away is an exciting concept.

As I set it out in the OP, the ability has some relatively steep costs--it takes up an EPT slot (which means you're really not jumping up that high in the PS rank with it; to me, the advantage has more to do with the fact you're making an attack in between movements and at a potentially opportune moment), it makes your attack 33% weaker (via not being able to focus for it, though you might be able to make some of this up via zooming to range 1 or having a pre-existing target lock) and takes up two squad building points. Not opposed to balancing it further with a mandatory discard or something, but just wanted to point out the price you're already paying.

Actually a 2 point card granting PS 12 is game breaking... I think it has potential, just a better cost... 3 maybe would be better.

uh what? You are aware that there is a 2 pt card that essentially grants PS 9 to anyone in range 1 right? And that it doesn't take an action to use? Just sayin'....

Only for 1 ship.. not everyone with a EP slot.. so no problem.. your PS 12 gives every EPS the chance for it.. I little broken if you ask me.. especially for 2 points.. 5 points keeps it a little fair.

No way, 5pts? Not with the action loss as well. Losing the ability to Focus/TL makes your shot have much less meaning. If you twist my arm I could see 3 pts, but even that makes it border line bad compared to PtL and expert handling

I should point out the obvious broken combination here. Kath Scarlet.

Put Quick Shot on Kath. She moves, then attacks a higher PS pilot, like Wedge. Kath rolls a crit, which Wedge evades. Wedge has a Stress Token. Then, Wedge's move he reveals a red maneuver. Now, you get to change the dial and fly him off the map.

Not bad for 2 points.

Which would make me question a rule - Do you HAVE to roll all your dice? Do you HAVE to cancel damage shown by rolled dice? Could you opt in that case to just absorb the crit? If not.... I'd suspect a rule change would be in order.

I should point out the obvious broken combination here. Kath Scarlet.

Put Quick Shot on Kath. She moves, then attacks a higher PS pilot, like Wedge. Kath rolls a crit, which Wedge evades. Wedge has a Stress Token. Then, Wedge's move he reveals a red maneuver. Now, you get to change the dial and fly him off the map.

Not bad for 2 points.

Of course, theoretically that's already possible in the game via Saboteur and flipping a Thrust Control Fire.... Both seem sufficiently unlikely to me so as to not be truly broken, IMO...

Indeed it does cost 3 and is one use... good restrictions on this Quick Shot card.. having played dogfight games where bombs and such are a factor, I feel I am pretty good at second guessing moves.. also, the prox mine is real easy to set up.. you just have to work it on a higher PS pilot.. you know where he is and where his basic move starts from... you justnhave to be able to move in front of him.. I've planed out 2 moves to get into such positioning..

The big difference i see between this and a mine/bomb is that a bomb can be avoided. A good pilot can look at your bomber card and remember "This guy has a prox mine so I'm not going to fly through his backwash". With a shot, there is no way to avoid consistently being in someones arc and therefore avoid the damage. Especially when they get to fly first.

But if something like this were done i would agree that it needs to be further restricted. Maybe resticted to particular types of ships or make it some sort of unique card (like squad leader), or discard after one use. Or some combination of those. I like this type of thinking though that tries to add more layers to the game and give more build options.

That's exactly what I was going for with this concept. I personally like the idea of making the activation phase less safe and/or more dynamic--to me, the thought of flying up on someone's rear and unleashing a surprise barrage before they're able to fly away is an exciting concept.

As I set it out in the OP, the ability has some relatively steep costs--it takes up an EPT slot (which means you're really not jumping up that high in the PS rank with it; to me, the advantage has more to do with the fact you're making an attack in between movements and at a potentially opportune moment), it makes your attack 33% weaker (via not being able to focus for it, though you might be able to make some of this up via zooming to range 1) and takes up two squad building points. Not opposed to balancing it further with a mandatory discard or something, but just wanted to point out the price you're already paying.

Yea, I think we all saw where you were going with the card, but I think there's too many reasons why you can't really allow people to shoot during the maneuver segment. Sable probably hit the worst possible one, but the other effect is you can just use moving first to your advantage when the opposing ships haven't even had a chance to move or take a defensive action, which is too powerful. I strip Lukes shields in the prior turn then move to range 1 and immediately attack while he can't move away or otherwise defend himself? a little too much. Saber Squadron Pilotss would abuse the crap out of this. Hrr Hrr 4 dice before you can do anything....

Actually a 2 point card granting PS 12 is game breaking... I think it has potential, just a better cost... 3 maybe would be better.

uh what? You are aware that there is a 2 pt card that essentially grants PS 9 to anyone in range 1 right? And that it doesn't take an action to use? Just sayin'....

Only for 1 ship.. not everyone with a EP slot.. so no problem.. your PS 12 gives every EPS the chance for it.. I little broken if you ask me.. especially for 2 points.. 5 points keeps it a little fair.

No way, 5pts? Not with the action loss as well. Losing the ability to Focus/TL makes your shot have much less meaning. If you twist my arm I could see 3 pts, but even that makes it border line bad compared to PtL and expert handling

No I meant 5 points for your PS 12 card idea.. 3 points for the quick shot seems fair, and make it one time use..

It's a quick shot, shouldn't it be less accurate? After all your pilot is rushing to get that shot off.

I could live with that card if you add the following: "Reroll all hits" (no one-only use necessary then I think)

That way it's quite a gamble if you get a lot out of it. I can see the cost dropped to maybe 1 then - after all you get the advantage to shoot during the maneuver step. The Reroll hit - rule will ensure that you will have a hard time in abusing it, as TL will not work as well as some other abilities. Also you reroll hits only, you have to keep blanks (well, also focus, but that seems ok to me).