So you want to have astromech droids that aren't astromech droids? What's the functional difference between disallowing astromech droids and having astromech droids.. that aren't astromech droids?

If there's a logic in your thinking, I'm not seeing it.

I believe the logic here is that a PC is a PC regardless of the species they choose to play.

Therefore, a droid PC should not get what amounts to free gear based on the fact that the PC is a droid. If a human tech doesn't also get to start with a toolkit or slicing gear without paying for it, then it's not particularly fair. Does an assassin droid get a free E-11 rifle for being an assassin?

I play in FangGrip's group. The droid started out manumitted and stumbled across a restraining bolt wrench during the intro adventure. He calls it the "Wrench of Justice". He goes around freeing bolted droids whenever he can.

At the same time, he started out with just a toolkit and we have picked his other items up along the way. The medkit was definitely a required pickup with our group.

Restraining bolt wrench? Is that an actual thing? What happens if a restraining bolt is ripped off without a "wrench"?

In my group, we just assumed that a droid couldn't remove it himself, so I had another droid (that I repaired) that didn't already have a restraining bolt on him pull it off me (it did require a fairly hard check, though).

The jawas paid dearly for that mistake.

It was in the introductory adventure in the Core Rule Book. It was in the hideout on the planet with the kidnapped astromech droid.

Eh? Why? Because I don't treat them as different from other PCs? Heh heh. Don't think so.

So you want to have astromech droids that aren't astromech droids? What's the functional difference between disallowing astromech droids and having astromech droids.. that aren't astromech droids?

If there's a logic in your thinking, I'm not seeing it.

Apparently.

So you want to have astromech droids that aren't astromech droids? What's the functional difference between disallowing astromech droids and having astromech droids.. that aren't astromech droids?

If there's a logic in your thinking, I'm not seeing it.

I believe the logic here is that a PC is a PC regardless of the species they choose to play.

Therefore, a droid PC should not get what amounts to free gear based on the fact that the PC is a droid. If a human tech doesn't also get to start with a toolkit or slicing gear without paying for it, then it's not particularly fair. Does an assassin droid get a free E-11 rifle for being an assassin?

But this pretty much covers it. Besides, even if you don't take extra credits, any "astromech" can purchase a tool kit at character creation.

So you want to have astromech droids that aren't astromech droids? What's the functional difference between disallowing astromech droids and having astromech droids.. that aren't astromech droids?

If there's a logic in your thinking, I'm not seeing it.

I believe the logic here is that a PC is a PC regardless of the species they choose to play.

Therefore, a droid PC should not get what amounts to free gear based on the fact that the PC is a droid. If a human tech doesn't also get to start with a toolkit or slicing gear without paying for it, then it's not particularly fair. Does an assassin droid get a free E-11 rifle for being an assassin?

Agreed, PCs are PCs whither Droid, Human, Wookee, or whatever. If you want to have a PC Droid fully equipped at the beginning of your campaign because it seems odd to you to have them have to upgrade rather than just having been built that way, which is a perfectly legitimate desire, then you have a couple of options. You can spec out the Droid with all the add ons you'd expect/want spending Obligation ect. on getting some of them then either buy the rest with future experience, meaning you spend EXP you don't have yet and must "pay off" before you can spend any on new things (something I would possibly allow depending on what upgrades we're talking about, non-combat upgrades) or have them installed but unusable (damaged or memory blocked in some way that makes it impossible to fix normally) until you pay the EXP/cash cost for them throughout the campaign.

The point though, is fairness. The RAW isn't there to stifle creativity or fun they're there to create an equitable playing field for everyone at the table, Players, GMs, everyone follows the same RAW.

Hey to me the best solution is to make the astromech as an astromech should be, and give everyone else money equivalent to the value of the astromech's "free" gear.

Hey to me the best solution is to make the astromech as an astromech should be, and give everyone else money equivalent to the value of the astromech's "free" gear.

Why? What else besides tools is an astromech droid likely to spend credits on?

First, that character's custom kit is up to the player. Blastromechs are a thing in-universe, in the end. They could also want armor or other gear.

Second, giving an astromech all the kit that they are depicted with as an in-universe baseline is clearly worth more than the standard amount of free credits. You're rewarding one player for playing an astromech if you give them free operable built-in gear and penalizing everyone else by giving them jack.

how about allowing the droid to buy all the build in crap he needs but then have it be broken at the moment play starts?

He can use the appropriate credits to get himself fixed in no time and it is perfectly reasonable in terms of fluff...

Yeah, that also works. It's a hard life for droids in the Rim.

How many astromech droids, besides R2-D2, do we see throughout the films? I think that the assumption that R2-D2 isn't a deluxe model is premature. After all, he was owned by the Queen of Naboo originally wasn't he? For her private Nubian space ship?

Wookiepedia: "Each R2 came equipped from the factory with two manipulator arms, an electric arc welder, circular saw, computer scomp link arm, VicksVisc holographic recorder/projector unit, internal cargo compartment, and a general-use fire extinguisher."

I don't doubt that R2-D2 had aftermarket upgrades, but still.

Wookiepedia: "Each R2 came equipped from the factory with two manipulator arms, an electric arc welder, circular saw, computer scomp link arm, VicksVisc holographic recorder/projector unit, internal cargo compartment, and a general-use fire extinguisher."

I don't doubt that R2-D2 had aftermarket upgrades, but still.

So really, not that much.

What do you mean? The listed tools probably make up the kit that's worth 350 creds. I don't understand your comment.

What do you mean? The listed tools probably make up the kit that's worth 350 creds. I don't understand your comment.

And easily purchased by a character for the 500 credit starting cash.

If we go by the wookiepedia entry let's see what you have to buy:

- Manipulator arms - nope no more so than any other droid or human has to buy their arms.

- circular saw - covered in tool kit

- arc welder (as a tool not a weapon) covered in the tool kit

- scomp link - this is, I say, covered in a tool kit. If a human can interface with a computer using their fingers (which should come free, unique obligation aside) a droid could have the scomp link. It doesn't make the droid any better at slicing than a human without gear.

- holo projector/recorder - this one I'm on the fence on. It could be included in the tool kit, if only to help allow a character to communicate. While a human can describe what he sees, an astromech records and plays it back. On the fence as I said, but no harm

- fire extinguisher - part of the tool kit

- storage compartment - no need. If a human character can carry items without buying pockets, the droid can have a storage comoartment. A hidden compartment us something else entirely.

If we go by the wookiepedia entry let's see what you have to buy:

- Manipulator arms - nope no more so than any other droid or human has to buy their arms.

- circular saw - covered in tool kit

- arc welder (as a tool not a weapon) covered in the tool kit

- scomp link - this is, I say, covered in a tool kit. If a human can interface with a computer using their fingers (which should come free, unique obligation aside) a droid could have the scomp link. It doesn't make the droid any better at slicing than a human without gear.

- holo projector/recorder - this one I'm on the fence on. It could be included in the tool kit, if only to help allow a character to communicate. While a human can describe what he sees, an astromech records and plays it back. On the fence as I said, but no harm

- fire extinguisher - part of the tool kit

- storage compartment - no need. If a human character can carry items without buying pockets, the droid can have a storage comoartment. A hidden compartment us something else entirely.

Especially if they don't speak and simply beep and buzz in binary.

First, that character's custom kit is up to the player. Blastromechs are a thing in-universe, in the end. They could also want armor or other gear.

Second, giving an astromech all the kit that they are depicted with as an in-universe baseline is clearly worth more than the standard amount of free credits. You're rewarding one player for playing an astromech if you give them free operable built-in gear and penalizing everyone else by giving them jack.

Personally, I would give everyone appropriate basic gear. That means that if you're starting as a Slicer, you're assumed to have Slicing equipment, if you're a Technician, you get a Toolbox, and everyone gets a set of Clothes, at the very least.

How many astromech droids, besides R2-D2, do we see throughout the films? I think that the assumption that R2-D2 isn't a deluxe model is premature. After all, he was owned by the Queen of Naboo originally wasn't he? For her private Nubian space ship?

What the various Astromechs get in-universe are all clearly outlined in the canon, available from Wookiepedia or similar. While yes, R2-D2 was owned by the Queen of Naboo, he was just another throwaway R2-unit out of a whole bunch of them. He was the only survivor as his comrades were blasted away around him. So he really was just a basic astromech droid at first, although arguably a good model, because he had the jets and such built-in.

First, I find it a bit ridiculous that a simple astromech droid would get a medal simply for performing his duty as a droid, while his comrades, the other astromech droids, only happened to be the ones blasted off the hull with massive ship-mounted blaster cannons. R2:s only claim to fame in this case was that he was the sole survivor after his ruler ordered him into cover-free blaster fire.

Second, I cannot help but to think that R2 would harbor a deep-seated seething contempt for the meatbags, first for ordering his friends to their deaths, and second for rewarding him and forgetting the others. Survivor's guilt can be a pain.

Why? What else besides tools is an astromech droid likely to spend credits on?

I spent it on a set of Electrobinoculars, fluffed as a "Electrobinocular Lens Upgrade". It really doesn't accomplish anything that an R3-unit can't already do, except the telescopic sight. But there's lots of things to spend your credits on.

Next up, I'm going to try to get enough money to scrape together for an Implant, fluffed as a Internal Cogitator & Computational Upgrade, for +1 Intellect. I'm going to push my Intellect straight into 7, first chance I get.

Next, I'll see about getting a Jetpack, because you know what's terrible? Ladders. Terrifying, horrible things. So let's not pretend everything is awesome as a 1-meter high droid without legs or arms. It's not all roses and sunshine.

Especially if they don't speak and simply beep and buzz in binary.

Last session, I used my holo-projector to impersonate Moff Brannigan by communique, in order to allow my companions and me to pretend we were investigating a TIE Fighter production plant.

The holo-projector is my bread and butter and the reason I picked up the Deception skill. It's also the rationale on how R3-P90 could survive so long on his own, on an imperial world.

If I need repairs, I just roll into a repair shop and promise the keeper that he'll be rewarded by the Empire if they fix me, and that <whomever I'm projecting> sent me there with this pre-recorded message. Of course, the fact that I'm basically in an imperial uniform 24/7 helps.

Being an astromech droid is much like carrying a clipboard. Nobody stops someone that walks fast and carries a clipboard. Just look busy and pretend like you belong there.

So.. if I play 'Princess' the pink droideka, I should get shield and ersatz blaster rifle for free.

What do you mean? The listed tools probably make up the kit that's worth 350 creds. I don't understand your comment.

And easily purchased by a character for the 500 credit starting cash.

This is ignoring the notions upthread that astromechs should get their factory load out (read: at least a tool kit) operable for free by virtue of being astromechs.

So.. if I play 'Princess' the pink droideka, I should get shield and ersatz blaster rifle for free.

If the GM allows you to play a fully functional droideka? Yes. I even think that those things have laser *cannons*, not just blaster rifles. Of course, if the GM allows you to do that, I'd question his sanity.

Honestly though, I can't really see how droids below Class 3 would even be played, or considered sentient, and I would expect droidekas to be Class 5, maybe barely Class 4. Nevermind that pesky lack of arms or tool usage.

First, that character's custom kit is up to the player. Blastromechs are a thing in-universe, in the end. They could also want armor or other gear.

Second, giving an astromech all the kit that they are depicted with as an in-universe baseline is clearly worth more than the standard amount of free credits. You're rewarding one player for playing an astromech if you give them free operable built-in gear and penalizing everyone else by giving them jack.

Personally, I would give everyone appropriate basic gear. That means that if you're starting as a Slicer, you're assumed to have Slicing equipment, if you're a Technician, you get a Toolbox, and everyone gets a set of Clothes, at the very least.

Point being, here, that "appropriate gear" varies by spec. Some are obvious what their basic gear should be - doctors, mechanics, slicers, for example. They would all be getting 350-500 creds worth of gear for free.

The "appropriate basic gear" for a bounty hunter or a politico or a smuggler is not quite so obvious. You can't point at one thing and say "that? that's necessary politico gear" like you can with a toolkit for a technician. In those cases, I'm saying the politico (for example) should get equivalent value to buy stuff as they please - clothes, a blaster, etc - not deducted from their normal starting funds.

That keeps things balanced if the base assumption is those special specs starting with working "appropriate gear."

What do you mean? The listed tools probably make up the kit that's worth 350 creds. I don't understand your comment.

And easily purchased by a character for the 500 credit starting cash.

This is ignoring the notions upthread that astromechs should get their factory load out (read: at least a tool kit) operable for free by virtue of being astromechs.

Which is fine as a houserule. But if you go by RAW they shouldn't be starting out with anything they don't purchase with the starting credits. To keep all the beginning characters balanced, the astromech would need to purchase the toolkit for 350 credits to begin play with all their built in components in working order. Astromechs that don't purchase the toolkit can be thought of as having the standard factory installed bits either broken or replaced with the other items the player chose to purchase.

Point being, here, that "appropriate gear" varies by spec. Some are obvious what their basic gear should be - doctors, mechanics, slicers, for example. They would all be getting 350-500 creds worth of gear for free.

The "appropriate basic gear" for a bounty hunter or a politico or a smuggler is not quite so obvious. You can't point at one thing and say "that? that's necessary politico gear" like you can with a toolkit for a technician. In those cases, I'm saying the politico (for example) should get equivalent value to buy stuff as they please - clothes, a blaster, etc - not deducted from their normal starting funds.

The starting funds are there for the players to purchase their appropriate gear. If you want to buy something else you're free to do so, that's also why you can get extra credits for additional obligation.

Which is fine as a houserule. But if you go by RAW they shouldn't be starting out with anything they don't purchase with the starting credits. To keep all the beginning characters balanced, the astromech would need to purchase the toolkit for 350 credits to begin play with all their built in components in working order. Astromechs that don't purchase the toolkit can be thought of as having the standard factory installed bits either broken or replaced with the other items the player chose to purchase.

To me, saying that astromechs start the game as not being astromechs (not having access to their basic physiological characteristics) is like saying that rodians don't get their suction cups, or that trandoshans have to purchase headgear to see in the infrared spectrum, or that bothans would have to pay for implants to improve their sense of smell and hearing. It's ridiculous.

Point being, here, that "appropriate gear" varies by spec. Some are obvious what their basic gear should be - doctors, mechanics, slicers, for example. They would all be getting 350-500 creds worth of gear for free.

The "appropriate basic gear" for a bounty hunter or a politico or a smuggler is not quite so obvious. You can't point at one thing and say "that? that's necessary politico gear" like you can with a toolkit for a technician. In those cases, I'm saying the politico (for example) should get equivalent value to buy stuff as they please - clothes, a blaster, etc - not deducted from their normal starting funds.

The starting funds are there for the players to purchase their appropriate gear. If you want to buy something else you're free to do so, that's also why you can get extra credits for additional obligation.

You're apparently not reading the posts I'm responding to so please stop quoting and responding to me out of context.