Realizing that I had a huge starship combat blind spot, I hit that chapter of the rule book - which only made me realize that I wasn't up to snuff on the normal combat as I'd like. Simple, basic stupid stuff like, for example - does a turn always have to go Incidental -> Maneuvers -> Action or can a character mix it up, something like Action first then Maneuver?

I wouldn't think that it would be a big deal, that you could move then shoot or shoot then move - but then I was reading the entry for Gain the Advantage. If a pilot fails, then they suffer the penalty of doing Evasive Maneuvers. Well, if you did it action then maneuver, if you failed Gain the Advantage then you just wouldn't do Evasive Maneuvers (well, unless you really needed it or something, I guess).

Going back to page 199 - 200, it doesn't say one way or the other, it just mentions that a turn is split into the three categories.

That said, rigidly adhering to the Incidental -> Maneuvers -> Action flow kind of undermines the abstractly cinematic nature of the engine. A character should be able to step way out into the open and shoot or squeeze off some volleys and then dive behind a pile of rocks.

So, what say you guys? Did I just miss some text somewhere?

I have no reason to think Incidental -> Maneuver -> Action is the preference, let alone the only way it's to be done.

Your Gain the Advantage example confuses me. Failing Gain the Advantage doesn't force you to do Evasive Maneuvers nor does it assume that you've already done Evasive Maneuvers. But if no one has done EM than you probably aren't going to try to GtA. GtA is to ignore the negative effects of your EM against your own combat checks (as EM upgrades the difficulty of all checks made to and from the ship doing the maneuvering) as well as the negative effects of the target's EM (because if an opponent uses EM than all combat checks made against them have their difficulty upgraded). The part you are referring to is simply saying if your GtA check fails, you continue to be affected by Evasive Maneuvers as you would normally (with upgraded checks).

What I was trying to say for the gain the advantage, I could see the thought process something like this: "Before I do the Evasive Maneuvers and screw up my gunners, I'll try Gain the Advantage!"

*roll & fail*

"Well, crap - I guess I wont do the Evasive Maneuvers after all"

Instead of having to declare Evasive Maneuvers before hand, screwing up the GtA and then being stuck penalizing your gunners. I guess I'm just sometimes having trouble letting go of my old WEG experiences. (:

I see no problem with doing it that way at all. I would allow it myself, at least.

There is no set order. You can do them in whatever sequence you want.

For the record, that's the way we've been doing it - whatever order the player wants. It was just one of those "Wait, is that right?" moments as I'm brushing up on the assorted rules. Always best to learn good habits of following the rules before developing bad ones and going off book.

For the record, that's the way we've been doing it - whatever order the player wants. It was just one of those "Wait, is that right?" moments as I'm brushing up on the assorted rules. Always best to learn good habits of following the rules before developing bad ones and going off book.

Yeah with no set order you have the ability to game the system a little bit, but there's not really an issue with that.

It's like having the pilot use Evasive Maneuvers at the last PC initiative slot, then having the pilot go first the next round so no gunner suffers the penalties to evasive maneuvers.

There's nothing to stop the players from doing that, and the Player gets to inwardly smirk a bit feeling as if he or she is cheating the system and getting away with it.

It's like having the pilot use Evasive Maneuvers at the last PC initiative slot, then having the pilot go first the next round so no gunner suffers the penalties to evasive maneuvers.

There's nothing to stop the players from doing that, and the Player gets to inwardly smirk a bit feeling as if he or she is cheating the system and getting away with it.

I kinda see that as fair game. If you're waiting until the end of the round before your pilot makes an attempt, that's a bunch of initiative slots where you're vulnerable.