My players want to install a bacta tank in the ship. I was wondering how to proceed.

1) Shall it only cost the credits plus some of the ship encumbrance? (lets say 12 - 15 enc)

2) Shall it cost only the credits and 1 customisation hard point?

3) Shall it cost the credits, 1 customisation hard point, plus some of the ship encumbrance?

I was planning to go for option 3. What do you think?

Additionally, the price listed on the equipment list bacta (full tank) 4000 credits enc. 12. Does it refer to an amount of bacta liquid (the one needed to fill in a bacta medical tank)? or is it the price for the bacta liquid plus, the container plus the electronics to operate it?

Cheers,

Yepes

I think (1) is appropriate. I think the cost is the cost of the machinery plus the bacta, and the liquid will need to be replaced to some extent after use.

To me, hard points are more like things installed on the exterior of the ship or dramatic changes to the overall ship structure - things like additional weapons, armor, or cargo bays. A bacta tank is more like just a big piece of equipment stored inside the ship. I don't think it should cost a hard point.

I would agree. Cost plus encumbrance should work fine. I would even allow them to avoid the enc cost by swapping two passenger berths instead. If they wanted to.

I was doing a bit of research. What about the cost?

A bacta tank says it costs 4000 credits. By the way in weg edition it cost 3000 and in saga edition 100000 credits!!!

A bacta tank uses 300 liters of bacta liquid, that is 6000 credits to fill up a tank. Does it mean that the 4000 credits listed for the tank is for an empty tank?

I was doing a bit of research. What about the cost?

A bacta tank says it costs 4000 credits. By the way in weg edition it cost 3000 and in saga edition 100000 credits!!!

A bacta tank uses 300 liters of bacta liquid, that is 6000 credits to fill up a tank. Does it mean that the 4000 credits listed for the tank is for an empty tank?

I have no idea. That makes sense I suppose, but yikes.

Well as we saw in Ep V, it's not like it's just an above-ground pool. It probably includes a lot of support and filtering equipment, monitoring equipment, and the cost to anchor it.

In any case, Hardpoints do take up interior space in some occasions, but they seem to be more systemic in those cases - the liquid metal tubes, gunnery or hyperdrive upgrades all come more to mind as being systemic ship upgrades than modifying one room to be a medbay.

I would say if smuggling compartments count against ship hardpoints then there should be an option of using the hardpoints OR the encumbrance.

As far as cost of bacta: Maybe you get a discount when you buy in bulk?

First, I'm with those that say Encumbrance and Cost to do it; using a Hard Point is a bit of a jerk move for a single bacta tank, especially since most larger medbays have the space for it.

Now, having hundreds/thousands of them may warrant such a measure, though, due to the power requirements, the rigging of the equipment and interior space needed

Of course, you can argue that you can use Hard Points instead of Encumbrance, and I'd agree with that as well, but it's a grey area to be sure when you are only looking at a single tank.

Second, the cost of bacta and medical tools is ALWAYS a topic up for debate. I also think WEG and FFG used the lower end of the spectrum for costs, while WotC used a much higher set of numbers for things (with a few exceptions, like lightsabers). Personally, I'd base the cost on what you think is right for the situation. Considering bacta tanks aren't really things you can walk into your normal corner store and buy, you may be spending an arm and a leg for them. Bacta itself is much easier to get, as it is used in most medpacs as well as used in "temporary" bacta tanks, but due to the monopoly on the substance, you're normally buying it on the black market, jacking up the cost.

That said, I'd charge no less than 10k for a bacta tank the players can take with them. At that price, I'd probably add some story elements or some quirks (it leaks, the system only allows displays in Trandoshan, etc) to make up for it.

I wouldn't go any higher than the 100k WotC has listed, and that's insanely overkill for the Black Market.

The rule book says 25 credits a litre for bacta.

Volume of a cylinder is V=pi*r*r*h

So... 1 meter in diameter should be pretty cozy (that,s 3.2 feet in the tube... cozy) ... 2 m tall a tad short for the taller species...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cylinder_%28geometry%29

V = 3.14159*50*50*200= 1570795 cubic centimeters.. or 1570 litres is about 40,000 credits for a full tank. It would also weigh about 1.5 tons, but I'd call it 2 with the lid and pump. You would undoubtedly get a steep discount on ordering a full tank at once, and not the refill rate. I'd say it would cost about half of that, or 20k credits.

The millenium falcon has some 100 tons freight capacity, so this wouldn't really put a dent in that. (2 tons?) Its more of an issue of square footage lost, which with the rest of the medical lab is probably pretty hefty. I'd call it a room and oh.. 25 encumbrance. This is a big deal for the smaller freighters.

A room I say? That's not underwear Luke was wearing... What he wore covered his naughty bits and likely some catheters so he doesn't soil the bacta. Did you want to sterilize the catheters or do you like'm dirty? You will need a full medical facility if you want to do more than patch holes with synthskin and bacta injections. I'd be inclined to call the bacta tank a room with recovery bed, and various medical tools.

What ever you do, don't take the lid off the bacta tank, then turn of the gravity, and take the ship for a spin. That stuff got everywhere!

WHO thought of a freaking tank? A bath tub would make more sense. How are you going to lower a paralyzed unconscious Brawn 5 Wookie into that thing? Put a rope around his neck? How do you get a wet slimy Wookie out if he's unconscious? What about a Mon Calimari? Those suckers are slippery!

10-15k credits for the medical lab, and 20k credits for a full bacta tank. Call it 35k total.

Wookieepedia at 100k for the tank alone and typically only found in major military bases,hospitals and capital ships. The description on core book page 176 says they are rare outside of major installations.

The EotE core talks about bacta tanks in such a way that it seems like a full-immersion tank like in Episode V would be unlikely to be on a ship. The book references "portable shipboard tanks" and states that the larger ones (e.g. Ep V) are only possible in large installations. So I would think the pricing of the Edge book refers to one of these portable tanks, not the huge full-immersion one like in ESB.

That being said, I don't find 4000 unreasonable for a portable tank set up (maybe this is more like a deep bathtub) with the bacta liquid itself purchased separately.

Wookieepedia at 100k for the tank alone and typically only found in major military bases,hospitals and capital ships. The description on core book page 176 says they are rare outside of major installations.

Note that in the blurb on the right, it stated 3k-100k for a tank. I'm guessing this is for the various types of bacta tanks available.

The rule book says 25 credits a litre for bacta.

Volume of a cylinder is V=pi*r*r*h

So... 1 meter in diameter should be pretty cozy (that,s 3.2 feet in the tube... cozy) ... 2 m tall a tad short for the taller species...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cylinder_%28geometry%29

V = 3.14159*50*50*200= 1570795 cubic centimeters.. or 1570 litres is about 40,000 credits for a full tank. It would also weigh about 1.5 tons, but I'd call it 2 with the lid and pump. You would undoubtedly get a steep discount on ordering a full tank at once, and not the refill rate. I'd say it would cost about half of that, or 20k credits.

The millenium falcon has some 100 tons freight capacity, so this wouldn't really put a dent in that. (2 tons?) Its more of an issue of square footage lost, which with the rest of the medical lab is probably pretty hefty. I'd call it a room and oh.. 25 encumbrance. This is a big deal for the smaller freighters.

A room I say? That's not underwear Luke was wearing... What he wore covered his naughty bits and likely some catheters so he doesn't soil the bacta. Did you want to sterilize the catheters or do you like'm dirty? You will need a full medical facility if you want to do more than patch holes with synthskin and bacta injections. I'd be inclined to call the bacta tank a room with recovery bed, and various medical tools.

What ever you do, don't take the lid off the bacta tank, then turn of the gravity, and take the ship for a spin. That stuff got everywhere!

WHO thought of a freaking tank? A bath tub would make more sense. How are you going to lower a paralyzed unconscious Brawn 5 Wookie into that thing? Put a rope around his neck? How do you get a wet slimy Wookie out if he's unconscious? What about a Mon Calimari? Those suckers are slippery!

Just a few things that may make this a bit more interesting:

1) There are tub-like "tanks." These are portable bacta tanks which are reminiscient of coffins, and they normally just have enough bacta to cover/submerge the victim to keep them alive along enough to get to a better center with a proper tank. If memory serves correctly, the bacta has to be pumped/replaced over time, so a tank does make sense.

2) When it comes to bigger things being dropped in: they've tossed a Gamorrean into a tank after being shot and nearly killed. As far as I can tell, they got a repulsor stretcher to get him to the medbay, rigged him up so he stays afloat in the tank, raised him with said rigging and/or repulsorlifts, and then dropped him in.

3) With getting out, they tend to wait until the victim is conscious before allowing them out. In an emergency situation, I assume they are either lifted out (as above) or they drain the tank and get them out somehow, like by destroying the front panel.

4) I believe the cost per liter vs a full tank can be debated as either buying in bulk (yay packaging!) or the cost associated with the service of being inside of a tank.

That's all I can think of offhand. I hope that helps the OP a bit more.

Wookieepedia at 100k for the tank alone and typically only found in major military bases,hospitals and capital ships. The description on core book page 176 says they are rare outside of major installations.

My party pretty much has a line up to get into the dang thing.

Well, considering just about any character can heal to full in less than two days and 200 credits worth of stimpacks, I'd say that the bacta "tank" really is nothing more than an isolation chamber and a few special bacta mix IV. Say maybe 2-4 liters of bacta per crit healed and another 1-2 per day for wounds. On planets, space stations and captial ships the isolation chamber could be fluid filled to promote less stress on the body or in more fancy treatment centers could even be an anti-gravity chamber.

I know this doesn't exaclty jive with cannon, but I don't really see a bacta tank getting used if it's going to cost 30,000 credits to fill it up every time. Best to follow the EotE style of keeping it simple.

I was providing the data as purely informational. On a personal note I kind of struggle with the healing a little bit.. but I enjoy this discussion. I'm working on a small kolto droid for the outlaw tech profession..as a replacement of sorts to a "Doctor". A three person group can struggle with healing. Just some thoughts.

Well, considering just about any character can heal to full in less than two days and 200 credits worth of stimpacks, I'd say that the bacta "tank" really is nothing more than an isolation chamber and a few special bacta mix IV. Say maybe 2-4 liters of bacta per crit healed and another 1-2 per day for wounds. On planets, space stations and captial ships the isolation chamber could be fluid filled to promote less stress on the body or in more fancy treatment centers could even be an anti-gravity chamber.

I know this doesn't exaclty jive with cannon, but I don't really see a bacta tank getting used if it's going to cost 30,000 credits to fill it up every time. Best to follow the EotE style of keeping it simple.

My guys are tossed in unconscious... Frequently with multiple criticals and massive head wounds. The best thing about GMing this game is that I can't really kill my players, so I pretty much treat them badly. Unless they all die, they can recover.

Healing isn't that fast when it's hard to breath. Bacta heals 1 point per 2 hours, but if your Doc is a Bacta Specialist, this increases dramatically (12 to 36 wounds per 24 hours). In addition you have a resilience check every 24 hours to recover from a crit. Not once per week.

Our Marauder is now pushing 21 Wounds, and he's used them up many times. Medium fall put him out of commission last time. He woke up next morning... With 1 wound, and two criticals left (he took 4 the day before), to a squad of storm troopers forcing their way on the ship. He charged them buck n*ked and went to town. The pilot thought it would be a good idea to turn off gravity and spin the ship.

...and that is how they dumped the tank. It was sorely missed. Multiple characters and NPCs were severely wounded.

I suppose your characters are permanently covered in Stim patches? "Death stick?" "No thanks I'm trying to cut down."

Even beating the players up, it's not too hard to heal up. A 21 wound marauder would only take 2+ days and 260 credits worth of stimpacks. Granted for that day that he just got up he could only heal another 3 by stim use. So let's just say 3 days. That's without a single medicine roll or long term care. A trained doctor (or medic) will cut that down quite a bit even without a bacta tank. Between a medicine check after every encounter (I'd rule that only encounters where you were hurt can you get a check to avoid shenanigans) and a medicine check for every critical you receive a character can go for quite a while before those crits would become dangerous. Especially when a triumph on a encounter medicine check can heal a critcal.

I'm not saying that bacta tanks aren't useful. But their only real use from my POV is quick healing of criticals. If it costs 30k to refill it every time, it would be pretty much worthless.

I know everyone has their own style, the game I'm in isn't very combat heavy so we really only use about two stimpacks every 8 to 10 hours of gameplay. In a heavy combat game where characters were getting beaten senseless and/or critted multiple times a day, it could be worthwhile. Not 30k worthwhile, but still.

That's why I made the suggestion above. Keep the bacta tank a 4k item and not worry about having to refill it all the time. It doesn't hurt the game. Throw in a little credit expenditure of bacta for some verisimilitude and call it a day.

I was providing the data as purely informational. On a personal note I kind of struggle with the healing a little bit.. but I enjoy this discussion. I'm working on a small kolto droid for the outlaw tech profession..as a replacement of sorts to a "Doctor". A three person group can struggle with healing. Just some thoughts.

You should take a look at the Medic specialization from AoR. It's a good mix of combat skills and medical talents. One of the best ones is Stimpack specialization that increases the amount of wounds that stimpacks heal by 1 per rank. My medic is healing 7 wounds per stimpack right now. I'll probably pick up doctor down the road and be scary good when it comes to medicine checks and long term care.

Hey everyone! i would just like to thrown in a couple of points too.

First, Ahrimon: your GM sounds like he sucks! Not combat heavy!! What is it you do in your adventures? Have tea parties??

Second: In Empire, after Luke lost his hand, they didn't throw him in a bacta tank on the Falcon. I really think very few freighters are going to have a Bacta Tank setup. Even a "portable" tank is not that common. The cost does not justify the need for most ships and crews. How will the ship and crew be treated by Imperial Customs Officers when they find out they have this tank? What kind of criminals are you that need to have this tank with you? While the tank it's self is not illegal, you probably are not using it to give free medical care to little children around the spaceport. It could even be confiscated by Imperials...

Third: With the growing escalation between the Empire and these terrorist Rebels, Bacta is becoming more controlled by the Empire to help control this galaxy wide problem. The CRB does list Bacta at 1. I don't think that means just to be able to buy. It means it can be easily found. It is not hard to find a Hospital. If I break my leg or arm or get in a car wreck, or even shot, I can easily get to hospital, even in a foreign country. There I can get Morphine, Vicodin, Percocet and antibiotics, whatever I need to heal. I just can't go buy it when I want to though. Morphine is really expensive to "buy" on the street, but not hard to find in a big city hospitals, just hard to get to. I look at Bacta as being a controlled substance by the government. Even antibiotics are controlled items and harder to get in our world.

To quote the CRB page 149 "However, for simple items, rarity provides an easy way for the GM to determine whether something is available and let the players easily track down the items."

A PC is severely wounded. lost a leg, and broke a finger nail. Can you find a bacta tank to get him healed up? Yes. Can you buy the tank? Um, probably not. I know where I can find an X-ray machine, but can I buy it or get it? But I could get an x-ray done if I needed it.

My take on this is that FFG made it easy to find the means to get healed up, it does not mean that the group flies around with said items.

It's your games and Universes, do whatever you want. But my take on it is it is easy to find/get the high grade hospital medical care, but it is hard/expensive to own the items.

The Soldier:Medic is about a must in any group that will see combat. they can save many lives, but they are not "Doctors" using 2-1-B Medical droids and Bacta tanks. These guys give you a shot of Lum, put a stick in your mouth and go to work

Hey everyone! i would just like to thrown in a couple of points too.

First, Ahrimon: your GM sounds like he sucks! Not combat heavy!! What is it you do in your adventures? Have tea parties??

Second: In Empire, after Luke lost his hand, they didn't throw him in a bacta tank on the Falcon. I really think very few freighters are going to have a Bacta Tank setup. Even a "portable" tank is not that common. The cost does not justify the need for most ships and crews. How will the ship and crew be treated by Imperial Customs Officers when they find out they have this tank? What kind of criminals are you that need to have this tank with you? While the tank it's self is not illegal, you probably are not using it to give free medical care to little children around the spaceport. It could even be confiscated by Imperials...

Third: With the growing escalation between the Empire and these terrorist Rebels, Bacta is becoming more controlled by the Empire to help control this galaxy wide problem. The CRB does list Bacta at 1. I don't think that means just to be able to buy. It means it can be easily found. It is not hard to find a Hospital. If I break my leg or arm or get in a car wreck, or even shot, I can easily get to hospital, even in a foreign country. There I can get Morphine, Vicodin, Percocet and antibiotics, whatever I need to heal. I just can't go buy it when I want to though. Morphine is really expensive to "buy" on the street, but not hard to find in a big city hospitals, just hard to get to. I look at Bacta as being a controlled substance by the government. Even antibiotics are controlled items and harder to get in our world.

To quote the CRB page 149 "However, for simple items, rarity provides an easy way for the GM to determine whether something is available and let the players easily track down the items."

A PC is severely wounded. lost a leg, and broke a finger nail. Can you find a bacta tank to get him healed up? Yes. Can you buy the tank? Um, probably not. I know where I can find an X-ray machine, but can I buy it or get it? But I could get an x-ray done if I needed it.

My take on this is that FFG made it easy to find the means to get healed up, it does not mean that the group flies around with said items.

It's your games and Universes, do whatever you want. But my take on it is it is easy to find/get the high grade hospital medical care, but it is hard/expensive to own the items.

The Soldier:Medic is about a must in any group that will see combat. they can save many lives, but they are not "Doctors" using 2-1-B Medical droids and Bacta tanks. These guys give you a shot of Lum, put a stick in your mouth and go to work

That looks like the definition of ® restricted items. They may be rare or common depending on the rarity number, but you can't own them. An unrestricted item with a low rarity number would be the definition of easy to find, buy and own. Your example of morphine, vicodin, etc, would be a great example of low rarity restricted items. It's all over the place, but the only way to get it is on the black market.

Interestingly, I had assumed that the 4k was for a bacta tank. I just realized that it's actually 4k for a full tank of bacta. It looks like they just assume that a ship will have a portable tank and it costs 4k to fill it. I think that makes bacta a more balanced item. If you need some serious healing you can pay 4k for a full tank of bacta and get healed up or you can rely on less expensive but slightly slower regular medical care.

Interesting,

Hey everyone! i would just like to thrown in a couple of points too.

First, Ahrimon: your GM sounds like he sucks! Not combat heavy!! What is it you do in your adventures? Have tea parties??

Second: In Empire, after Luke lost his hand, they didn't throw him in a bacta tank on the Falcon. I really think very few freighters are going to have a Bacta Tank setup. Even a "portable" tank is not that common. The cost does not justify the need for most ships and crews. How will the ship and crew be treated by Imperial Customs Officers when they find out they have this tank? What kind of criminals are you that need to have this tank with you? While the tank it's self is not illegal, you probably are not using it to give free medical care to little children around the spaceport. It could even be confiscated by Imperials...

Third: With the growing escalation between the Empire and these terrorist Rebels, Bacta is becoming more controlled by the Empire to help control this galaxy wide problem. The CRB does list Bacta at 1. I don't think that means just to be able to buy. It means it can be easily found. It is not hard to find a Hospital. If I break my leg or arm or get in a car wreck, or even shot, I can easily get to hospital, even in a foreign country. There I can get Morphine, Vicodin, Percocet and antibiotics, whatever I need to heal. I just can't go buy it when I want to though. Morphine is really expensive to "buy" on the street, but not hard to find in a big city hospitals, just hard to get to. I look at Bacta as being a controlled substance by the government. Even antibiotics are controlled items and harder to get in our world.

To quote the CRB page 149 "However, for simple items, rarity provides an easy way for the GM to determine whether something is available and let the players easily track down the items."

A PC is severely wounded. lost a leg, and broke a finger nail. Can you find a bacta tank to get him healed up? Yes. Can you buy the tank? Um, probably not. I know where I can find an X-ray machine, but can I buy it or get it? But I could get an x-ray done if I needed it.

My take on this is that FFG made it easy to find the means to get healed up, it does not mean that the group flies around with said items.

It's your games and Universes, do whatever you want. But my take on it is it is easy to find/get the high grade hospital medical care, but it is hard/expensive to own the items.

The Soldier:Medic is about a must in any group that will see combat. they can save many lives, but they are not "Doctors" using 2-1-B Medical droids and Bacta tanks. These guys give you a shot of Lum, put a stick in your mouth and go to work

That looks like the definition of ® restricted items. They may be rare or common depending on the rarity number, but you can't own them. An unrestricted item with a low rarity number would be the definition of easy to find, buy and own. Your example of morphine, vicodin, etc, would be a great example of low rarity restricted items. It's all over the place, but the only way to get it is on the black market.

Interestingly, I had assumed that the 4k was for a bacta tank. I just realized that it's actually 4k for a full tank of bacta. It looks like they just assume that a ship will have a portable tank and it costs 4k to fill it. I think that makes bacta a more balanced item. If you need some serious healing you can pay 4k for a full tank of bacta and get healed up or you can rely on less expensive but slightly slower regular medical care.

I've read it over a few times, interesting thoughts.

That is not the CRB definition of Restricted ( R ). An item in the CRB listed with the ( R ) "means they are restricted and always count as black market items." Disruptors, Missile Tubes, Lightsabers are a few. That pretty much means that no legal shop will have them or sell them openly.

"Rarity in Edge of the Empire is a simple way of measuring how difficult an item can be to find on a scale of 1-10"

The CRB says nothing of owning. By definition Rarity is how hard it is to find.

Other than the half a dozen cases in the CRB that lists items with ®, Edge of the Empire does not list the availability of items like WEG or WotC did. EotE does not keep track of the legality of equipment in favor of the narrative system.

CRB P 150 "Exactly what is illegal on each world is Game Master or may be specified in the world's description."

So again, my take on this is that the writers of EotE are saying high end medical care is not hard to find for the PC's.

"While full sized bacta tanks are rare outside of major facilities, some ships often have portable bacta tanks, and most medpacks and field kits have bacta patches"

The game does not want you to limit medical care to PC's in need because it is rare or restricted. But to own high grade medical equipment would be hard to acquire and own.

I just can't go by own CAT scanner or MRI machine if I wanted to without a ton of paperwork and governmental regulations and oversight.

Also, a good soldier:medic can heal about as good with stimpacks as with a bacta tank.

So like a lot of Wookieepedia and the EU, it is up to the individuals to determine what will be legal and hard to get in this game.

A fully outfitted medical bay with bacta tanks on a starship will pretty rare in my opinion. That is something a Rebel terrorist cell would have, not good law abiding Imperial citizens.

The better way to understand this is... Its a narrative plot device. In fact there is no right or wrong, and this is really about what you want your group to have.

In my case, I chose a ship for the group that had a small medical bay. I assumed that it would have a bacta tank. (There was a round object on the deck plan.) I've been assuming that bacta refills were just operational costs for the ship. (Our ship costs 1 share of all rewards.)

As luck would have it, having a bacta tank suited my GM style, and has been an integral part of our story line. (Right down to the n8ked guy charging the Storm Troopers.)