The thing you guys are overlooking - both extremes of a demographic are more likely to speak out than the "Meh" constituents. Go look at any review on Amazon, check out how the review curve tends towards "It sucks! I hate it!" one star or "It's awesome! I love it!" five star reviews with very little middle ground. Those who are offended tend to complain loud and long and those who back that horse tend to shout it from the mountaintops until the cows come home. The ones who go "It's okay" cant be bothered to say anything - and that's where you'll find the greatest portion of your demographic: the apathy market.

I'm not saying that either extreme is wrong. Just don't take the - what, four or five people here that are offended as universal condemnation of the podcast. Neither side reflects what most people probably really think.

(And yes, there is room for improvement. The show could be significantly tightened up with the fat trimmed out making it a much more lean and mean product. At the very least, they could give us a table of contents, so we could skip to the sections we actually wanted to hear.)

I'll list my constructive criticism, I suppose.

First, I like the podcast, in general, just fine. The fellas are articulate, entertaining, and do a good job of covering EOTE. And I like stuff like Skill Monkey, and tales from the outer rim and stuff like that which add a little personality to it.

This particular episode (the one this thread is about, Ship Combat with Sam Stewart) was mostly good, but a couple things bothered me. First, the 5 minute long drunk rambling Skill Monkey....good god. That is the definition of a one-note joke stretched out WAY too long. Just when I thought it was over, it kept going....and going. Then, I just fast forwarded through the end of the segment.

I was REALLY looking forward to the rules explanations of ship combat, and while some of it was useful, some of it was...I dunno...confused by weird analogies and jokes. I wish I had an example in mind to make my point, but when you start a topic like, "What is Speed?", don't immediately go into weird jokes and analogies. Especially when you're trying to educate the audience. If you're just discussing something, fine, but as an point of education, it just confuses the issue and makes it more complicated than it already was.

I liked the Scenario, and while house rules are okay, and I think everything they did was appropriate, it would've been nice to know which actions they were doing were house rules and which weren't....buuuut, I realise it would have been hard to break that out.

Overall, I liked the episode though.

I'll list my constructive criticism, I suppose.

First, I like the podcast, in general, just fine. The fellas are articulate, entertaining, and do a good job of covering EOTE. And I like stuff like Skill Monkey, and tales from the outer rim and stuff like that which add a little personality to it.

This particular episode (the one this thread is about, Ship Combat with Sam Stewart) was mostly good, but a couple things bothered me. First, the 5 minute long drunk rambling Skill Monkey....good god. That is the definition of a one-note joke stretched out WAY too long. Just when I thought it was over, it kept going....and going. Then, I just fast forwarded through the end of the segment.

I was REALLY looking forward to the rules explanations of ship combat, and while some of it was useful, some of it was...I dunno...confused by weird analogies and jokes. I wish I had an example in mind to make my point, but when you start a topic like, "What is Speed?", don't immediately go into weird jokes and analogies. Especially when you're trying to educate the audience. If you're just discussing something, fine, but as an point of education, it just confuses the issue and makes it more complicated than it already was.

Yes. A thing was tried. Thing did not work well. Skill Monkey has been punished severely. Skill monkey promises not to attempt it again. In the meantime, carry on.

Not sure why some folks are being so defensive here.

For the record, I listened to one, didn't like it, assumed I wasn't the target audience, assumed everyone else was fine with it, and thought no more about it.

Personally, I think this is the sort of stuff that needs addressing if the hobby is really interested in getting more females involved.

And I say that as someone who certainly isn't a prude, and who has happily spent pretty much her entire life around gamers, geeks and nerd guys. I'm pretty much an honorary male, and no stranger to locker-room talk.

Personally, I've got most of my EoE help from this very board... from guys like Chortles who helped me with the fluff, to pretty much everyone who's helped with the rules and mechanics and general gaming stuff.

I won't say anything more, as this thread is going no place that's good

This particular episode (the one this thread is about, Ship Combat with Sam Stewart) was mostly good, but a couple things bothered me. First, the 5 minute long drunk rambling Skill Monkey....good god. That is the definition of a one-note joke stretched out WAY too long. Just when I thought it was over, it kept going....and going. Then, I just fast forwarded through the end of the segment.

Yes. A thing was tried. Thing did not work well. Skill Monkey has been punished severely. Skill monkey promises not to attempt it again. In the meantime, carry on.

Hey, you had a turd in a pile of diamonds...happens to the best. Actually, most people rarely produce more than one diamond, if any, so you're waaaay ahead

Not to bring a dead horse back from the dead, I gave the most recent podcast from last week a listen, but this time with an ear to the assorted complaints. (Although for disclaimer purposes, the first half hour of pimping themselves and talking about nonsense we already knew about, so I wound up fast fowarding to the meat of the episode).

1) Holy crap, they really are anti-female friendly. There was a line about modification and how to do it in a 5 step process.The guest host said something like "Find the mod, buy the mod, slap the mod [in], and make more mods". The regular host turned it into hos "Buy the ho, slap the ho, make more hos"

Look, I've got a really thick skin. I watch all kinds of 70's exploitation flicks about women in prison - I'm pretty immune to this stuff, and even I was going "Christ, that was really over the line". So I'm sorry for doubting or pooh-poohing the concerns of others, because this show can get really bad.

2) While the misogyny thing was awful, it was a 10 second spike on the radar. What REALLY bugged me was the wandering off topic. They talk about the music bed, start doing lines from the flicks that aren't relevant to the discussion and generally waste my time. The show has some very good nuggets in there, but I'm coming to the conclusion that you have to sift through a whole lot of crap to get to it.

So yeah, they REALLY need to clean up their act over there.

Desslok, I agree about that particular episode.

GM Chris wasn't there, and I find he's more reliable at keeping things on topic. Dave and the guest-host (Twi'lek Goodness, Chris's wife) are friends, so it just felt more like a couple of buddies shooting the breeze about a bunch of random bull.

My first post on this board, I'll try to make it a good one.

I read through these posts and realize a couple of things. Way more people love us than hate us. A few very vocal critics are speaking out, based on their opinion, which is their right to do.

Something interesting happened a few years back. The show became less of a show and more of two buddies just having a talk. Sure, we had some wisdom and some good content, but there are some very real concerns brought up in these posts, aside from the same tired nonsense we hear from one in particular. So let me address the concerns that I have heard and you tell me if the changes I am proposing will sit well with you.

First and foremost in my mind, is the charge of being racist and sexist. People that know me will tell you that this is the farthest thing from the truth. I made a big mistake though, in that the previous 5 years of podcasting built a base of people that knew me, and when we moved to FFG and EotE, a whole new group came in that did not know me, and guess what? First impression was not all that good.

For that, I deeply apologize and will definitely keep an eye on what "spews forth" from now on out of this pie hole.

Next, on the show being loose and the format needing "tightening", so to speak. Again, 6 years of shows have led us to complacency and we have become lax. In a couple of episodes, we will be debuting a new format and the goal for the show is 75 minutes, with the crunch right up front and listener questions after that. The hubris will be left for the post show, which is an optional listen.

Third, Chris and I will be responsible for our own content. We will each be providing content for different sections of the show, which should eliminate the false perception that one host is the rpg guy and the other guy is along for the ride.

There will still be wacky bits because that's who I am. There will still be diversions and right turns every once in a while, because that's who I am. With the new, tighter format, there will be less of that than before, and that should be less distracting.

I am tending to my daughters graduation and to our board game company, but will be back on the show in a month or two. I hope some of you read this and realize that we do hear your concerns and when posted in a thoughtful manner they are very effective.

And Dono, aside from your annoying use of hyperbole, I consider your feedback relevant I never considered banning you from the forums, you have the right to say whatever you please. Although it should be noted that you angered just as many if not more than I did on the forums through your actions throughout the years. So let's call a spade a spade.

Bottom line, we are working on making the show tighter, better and plan to make a return to greatness without sacrificing the best parts of what The Order 66 Podcast has to offer. I encourage you guys to give us a few episodes to adapt and then let us know what you think as we get close to Episode 31 or 32.

Thank you all.

GM Dave

Right on, Dave!

I dig the podcast and I felt like it was worth speaking up when some of those charges were made earlier because I agree with what you said. The show evolved to a more relaxed format with good friends sharing conversation and entertainment as well as knowledge and gaming info.

I'm confident it will continue to be as great a show as ever and we'll continue to be entertained and learn from it as we (never) listen in the future.

Thanks!

Taking criticism is never easy. Taking criticism and actually take it to heart (whether you end up disregarding it or not), is a sign of maturity that I do not see everyday.

I loved all 28 episodes so far, can't wait to hear more.

My first post on this board, I'll try to make it a good one.

I read through these posts and realize a couple of things. Way more people love us than hate us. A few very vocal critics are speaking out, based on their opinion, which is their right to do.

Something interesting happened a few years back. The show became less of a show and more of two buddies just having a talk. Sure, we had some wisdom and some good content, but there are some very real concerns brought up in these posts, aside from the same tired nonsense we hear from one in particular. So let me address the concerns that I have heard and you tell me if the changes I am proposing will sit well with you.

First and foremost in my mind, is the charge of being racist and sexist. People that know me will tell you that this is the farthest thing from the truth. I made a big mistake though, in that the previous 5 years of podcasting built a base of people that knew me, and when we moved to FFG and EotE, a whole new group came in that did not know me, and guess what? First impression was not all that good.

For that, I deeply apologize and will definitely keep an eye on what "spews forth" from now on out of this pie hole.

Next, on the show being loose and the format needing "tightening", so to speak. Again, 6 years of shows have led us to complacency and we have become lax. In a couple of episodes, we will be debuting a new format and the goal for the show is 75 minutes, with the crunch right up front and listener questions after that. The hubris will be left for the post show, which is an optional listen.

Third, Chris and I will be responsible for our own content. We will each be providing content for different sections of the show, which should eliminate the false perception that one host is the rpg guy and the other guy is along for the ride.

There will still be wacky bits because that's who I am. There will still be diversions and right turns every once in a while, because that's who I am. With the new, tighter format, there will be less of that than before, and that should be less distracting.

I am tending to my daughters graduation and to our board game company, but will be back on the show in a month or two. I hope some of you read this and realize that we do hear your concerns and when posted in a thoughtful manner they are very effective.

And Dono, aside from your annoying use of hyperbole, I consider your feedback relevant I never considered banning you from the forums, you have the right to say whatever you please. Although it should be noted that you angered just as many if not more than I did on the forums through your actions throughout the years. So let's call a spade a spade.

Bottom line, we are working on making the show tighter, better and plan to make a return to greatness without sacrificing the best parts of what The Order 66 Podcast has to offer. I encourage you guys to give us a few episodes to adapt and then let us know what you think as we get close to Episode 31 or 32.

Thank you all.

GM Dave

Don't be concerned about whatever "Spews forth", Say whatever you want, it's your show.

Keep up the good work!

appreciate that dave. shows strength of character to make a post like that.

Hell I thought the time stamp was a good enough improvement in the last one posted here. You can make a podcast 2 days long if you like, just including a timestamp/table of contents makes it a lot easier to just take in what one is interested in and ignore what one isn't. Nothing wrong with tightening up production values and staying on script though either.

Hell I thought the time stamp was a good enough improvement in the last one posted here. You can make a podcast 2 days long if you like, just including a timestamp/table of contents makes it a lot easier to just take in what one is interested in and ignore what one isn't. Nothing wrong with tightening up production values and staying on script though either.

Truth. This was the first episode I got anything from, and that's because I knew where to jump to for what I was listening for (I still can't sit through the whole thing, so reducing the length would be a positive change in my eyes).

I'm one of the loudest critics, but being able to take criticism well is a good trait that you don't see often anymore,

so I'll definitely check back with the May 11th Sam Stewart episode and see how you guys are doing.

Like I've said in the past, I'd love a really good and useful FFG Star Wars podcast.

My current work commute is rather lengthy, at least an hour in each direction. While I work from home 2 days out of the week, I've used those commutes to listen to the podcast. This past Sunday was my first time listening via Echo Base (live), and I really appreciated being able to respond to things as they came up, and it felt like I was contributing to the show. Granted, I won't be able to always do that, but I'll certainly try.

Thanks for responding to the comments and criticism Dave, on the whole I enjoy the show, some bits more than others but you can't please everyone all of the time and nor should you. I don't mind slight digressions if it doesn't detract from the show or throw a guess off his/her subject, I don't mind some clowning around and geek references as we all probably relate to this, I don't mind adult language but I haven't appreciated some of the recent outbursts (just saying), but I have appreciated a lot of fun and informative discussions from a podcast organised by two guys that seem to care a great deal about this community.

I welcome a tighter format, although as I listen to the show on long drives I don't mind the length of the podcast it just needs to keep the content more relevant (slight diversions accepted), so don't change things too much as you wouldn't want to throw out sections that listeners really enjoy.

I honestly can't imagine how you could fit everything in within 75 minutes without becoming an infomercial, and we can't have that as people really won't listen. As an aside, I first listened to this podcast at the birth of the FFG Star Wars system and this is the first podcast that I have actually stuck with as I usually get fed-up with hosts being either opinionated or very boring. Whilst you guys may sometimes be the former, you will certainly never be the latter. :-)

The changes sound good; thanks so much for making the account and commenting here, Dave. I'll definitely tune back in during that time frame. Some of the tone has bothered me and I don't regularly listen. But I can tell there are some great nuggets of discussion in there. Having FFG reps on so often makes it feel like an endorsed podcast for the game; so while it's certainly not up to the hosts to maintain professionalism, it is up to FFG to choose who they want to associate with for their company. I want them to have a show on which they can appear and talk about Star Wars! Without the women or the trans-woman I game with cringing!

A question about something on the starship show...

They talked about using the Aiming rules during starship combat in order to target specific components. The implications aren't outlined in the rules. Taking a setback die in order to, if successful, roll on the component critical list seems imbalanced, so I don't think I'd do that. What do other people do?

I allow them to take 2 Setback (or 1 with a double aim) to hit a Component. The Component can be fixed with an Average mechanics check, but the attacker can spend Advantages to add a Setback die to the Mechanics roll.

(Very similar to what is described under 3 Advantages on the table on p.236)

Having FFG reps on so often makes it feel like an endorsed podcast for the game.

For me, that's the main problem with those shows, the hosts seem starstruck and not willing to debate any of the developers' choices; the developers are never challenged in any way. And while I realize that the mandate of the podcast is not hardball journalistic integrity, I'd like to see a real discussion once in a while, not just knee-jerk affirmation that every answer is "cool".

Don't get me wrong, EotE is my favorite rules system I've used in my 30-year tabletop gaming career, but I bet we'd learn more about the game design philosophy of FFG if the hosts occasionally went "well, why not this instead?"

GM Dave: props for responding in this thread. I look forward to a taste of your segment contributions.

I really don't mind how they do their podcast. Whether it's viewed as the mouthpiece of FFG or not, it's their show. I enjoy listening to them talk about things that my own group talk about.

I do have to say that their interviews do seem way biased and could use a bit more debate. As a GM and Player of EotE, I have some issues with the game (especially space combat) and reading these forums tells me that I'm not the only one. I didn't find the starship combat podcast that useful because it basically told me how I should love the rules as they are. Granted it's a little late to make changes to the rules, I just wanted to hear more "Why did they do this?"s than "How does this works?'s" .

And really, please don't shorten the podcasts. My favorite episodes are several hours long and there aren't enough of them lately for them to be short.

Quick question around 2:15-2:18 or so you guys start talking about component hits. Now I know this is achievable through a crit but in your example on the cast you talk about a player going for such a hit instead of doing damage when they gathered a high dice pool, I'm not finding this in the rules can someone clarify for me where that is? Is it just like shooting a weapon out of someones hand or...?

Also I know you can achieve this by choosing the spend 3 advantages on knocking one out (likely instead of spending them on crit), I'm talking more about purposely taking set back dice to do so.

The Aim maneuver on p.201 says this in not so many words. (It's mostly focused on personal combat, but it's applicable to Gunnery as well)

For how I run it, just look a few posts up from this one.

Zar,

I listened to Episode 25 a number of times to absorb the 'how to run starship combat' stuff.

Once I did that, my starship combats started to be more fun. For me this was all the "why" that I needed.