This is probably the wrong fourum as it's more a "bad beat" story .. but there is a question anyway

The basic question is whether the control of Steelshanks Reserves can change during the challenges phase and if so, presumubly the control returns immediatelty to the first player

Assuming control does change - the character would get a power on it each time the control flips (if I have played In Ramsay's Name)

I'll post the scenario seperately ...

Steelshanks Reserves

During the challenge phase, the active player gains control of Steelshanks' Reserves.

In Ramsay's Name

Until the end of the phase, each time a House Bolton character changes control, that character claims 1 power

Other cards involved (in the scenario)

Roose Bolton

Roose Bolton does not kneel to attack during Intrigue challenges. Response: After you win a challenge in which Roose Bolton participated, all players take control of each character they own currently in play.

Winterfell Honour Guard

You may put Winterfell Honor Guard into play from your hand, under the control of any opponent. After that opponent wins a challenge in which Winterfell Honor Guard participated, take control of Winterfell Honor Guard.

This is the story - a classic example of how not to play House Bolton

It's a melee game, 3 players - Player A is House Martell and starts the challenge phase as first player - he is way behind on three power. I am player B with a shot at winning and player C is wating in the wings to win the game

• Player A does an intrigue challenge against me
• I panic and play two copies of Ramsay's Name - so each time a house Bolton character changes control it collects 2 powers
• I then realise I can win the challenge, so I put a Winterfell Honour Guard into my opponents control
• I win the challenge and take control of Honour Guard .. but I also take control of the 3 Steelshank Reserves that player A has (They are my cards) ... each one collects 2 powers .. 6 in total
• Player A is still the active player (Though the intrigue challenge was their 3rd challenge) ... so the 3 Steelshank Reserves return to player A ... each one collects another 2 powers .. making 12 in total

Player A wins the game!!! .... player C is a little bit upset

As per the question ... I assume this was the correct way of treating the scenario

When I won the intrigue challenge, I used Roose Bolton - hence all cards returning to their owners control

The only thing im thinking that might be dubious is if Steelshanks reserves are a constant or passive effect. If its passive they should only check when the framework determines a new active player, if its constant it would work as you described (roose pulls them back and then they immediately go back to the active player).

Passives and constants always muck me up a bit.

Im inclined to say you have the right of this as the only stipulation is active player which would appear to be a constantly checked variable.

I assume it is a constant effect too ...

The Reserves is a passive effect. The active player does not "continuously exert" control over the character. Rather, the effect initiates when someone becomes active player. If control is changed, you still need a new "player becomes active player" status change on order to initiate the "gains control".

This has more to do with understanding how control change effects work than any specific word in the effect. See the FAQ for the info needed to know this has to be interpreted as a passive.

Long story short, the active player should not "reassert" control immediately after triggering Roose. Control would not change in that scenario until someone new becomes the active player.

****, i was right in the first stupidly long post i typed up.

looked at the active player framework and thought it had to be a passive check and then talked myself into treating it as a constant effect as the active player doesn't change until the next framework event that moves it along.

And i have just told myself how the process works and where the passive check is >.>

I'll have to go off and read the FAQ - see if I can understand which is which (Passive / Constant), as to be honest, I really don't know anymore

During the challenge phase, the active player gains control of Steelshanks' Reserves

And worst then that, Player A should not have won the game ...

it's a shame really, I scewed up on my timing and should have played just the one event card, but I though this would be a nice trick to pick up a bundle of power ...

it could still work if I was player 3 as I would take control of the reserves after winning the challenge, collecting the power and then when player 2 becomes first player, they would get the Boltons with more power before finally the control returns back to me ... it a high risk stategy though

This is less about the definition of passive vs. continuous and more about how control change effects work.

Take this for example: Player A uses Enslaved on Player Bs character. Then Player C uses Enslaved on the same character. You now have two valid, continuous "take control" effects on the same character. So who controls it? Doesn't A take it back as soon as C takes it, and vice versa? Letting first player decide the order doesn't change the outcome, either.

Because of this, the newest control effect applied us the one that controls, no matter whether the control change is a lasting effect (Roose or Ygritte) or truly continuous (Enslaved). So, in your situation, Roose, the newest (triggered:lasting) control effect preempts Steelshanks (passive:lasting or continuous, doesn't really matter) until a new initiation or application creates another new control change effect.

Do not forget that you can also choose not to trigger Roose's response and not gain control of Steelshanks Reserves until you become active player.

It seems like you may have also played the Honor Guard wrong. The OPPONENT has to win a challenge in which the honor guard itself participated for you to assert your control.

It seems like you may have also played the Honor Guard wrong. The OPPONENT has to win a challenge in which the honor guard itself participated for you to assert your control.

I thought that for a second as well, until I realized that he used Roose's response to take control of them after winning the challenge. It must be an easy mistake to make if we both did, lol

I'm giving away all my tricks! ... Using Roose means characters like the Honour Guard have better value

They can be dumped onto your oponent after you have "won" a intrigue challenge but before the challenge resolution