In my soon to launch bounty hunting campaign, opposed Astrogation can be used to determine the destination of a ship jumping to hyperspace. It only tells you the next leg of the journey, but if you can beat them there, you can be ready to keep on following (or to ambush them).

Ah yes, we did something like this as well. It wasn't quite an opposed Astrogation check, but rather the GM allowed Astrogation checks for estimating the likely destination(s) of a ship that we could see jumping to hyperspace.

I'm going on opposed checks because the skill of the first party directly determines the difficulty for the second party to follow (IMO).

The problem with heavily loading it with Knowledge skills is that these are of limited use. I try to give them some use when GMing but generally, if a GM wants the players to know something, the GM will tell them whether they have a skill or not. And if the GM doesn't want you to know something, they won't tell you, skill or no.

This GM needs to listen to Skill Monkey and think out of their "GM box". To me you described a new or poor GM.

So there's been a lot of negativity, coming primarily from my end, but I'd like to return to the original intent and ask if anyone plays a scout and how they do it.

Granted my Explorer was a Fringer with Scout as a secondary specialization, but there are some similarities. Keep in mind that there's no one true way to play any specialization, and that goes doubly for the more flexible ones that lean toward being jacks-of-all-trades. One of the key things to think about is mobility. This wasn't a primary focus for my character, but it was definitely something I dipped into. Piloting (planetary), Athletics, and Coordination are important skills, and sometimes Stealth as well (suck it up and buy it out of career), but with a pair of macrobinoculars you might not even have to get close enough to need Stealth. Sometimes you'll need Cool instead of Stealth anyways (say, if you're trying to blend in with a crowd).

Anything that improves your Maneuver economy is great, and that's primarily strain management talents like Grit and Rapid Recovery (as well as having a high Cool or Discipline), but also includes things like Let's Ride. Some GMs run more chase scenes than others, but Shortcut is extremely useful when they come up.

A Scout that can get to a hard-to-reach speeder bike, hop on it, and then pilot it effectively doesn't need combat skills; I can't tell you how many times my Fringer/Scout ran enemies over. If there was a vehicle nearby, I was thinking about how I could use it. And I was ever-thankful for that Destiny Point I flipped toward the beginning of the campaign that explained how that "busted" swoop bike simply needed a new spark plug. Yep, I kept that swoop bike, even if it meant we had less room for cargo in our YT-1300.

Perception and Survival are both important for interpreting movements of others (and Survival seems to be a good go-to option for beast-riding, making it analogous to Piloting (planetary)). Really, Perception is probably your most important skill if you're truly trying to take the term "Scout" literally and use the character as an information-gatherer. Depending on the campaign you might want to grab Computers for this as well.

And of course there's the controversial inclusion of Medicine on its list of skills. This not only makes you more self-sufficient, but you can stand in for a Doctor if your group lacks one (or maybe the Doctor's the one laying on the ground bleeding out!). My group seems to be really good at splitting the party, in which case having at least two PCs with Medicine is a good idea anyways.

Then there's a big focus for the Explorer in general that my character simply didn't have the XP to invest too heavily into - Knowledge skills. If you don't want to play the more restrictive Scholar but still want to be a know-it-all, Explorer (including Scout) is a great second choice. Knowledge skill could be great for avoiding unpleasant surprises and possibly giving your group a bit of a home field advantage. Besides that the differences between Explorer and Scholar are pretty pronounced; aside from having Knowledge skills in common, the other things they do are pretty different.

I understand how every career can't have combat skills, but, Scout is the one I don't understand how it doesn't. Some have pointed out the utility of Medicine as you are off in the boonies and wind up injured and I agree with that, and for the same reason a weapon skill would also be a must. I can't think of a Scout not having a weapon and being well versed with it as a basic skill. I think the specialization should have Ranged(H) personally. I can live without stealth I suppose, but to me a Scout is that guy/gal out in the boondocks with no one but their rifle, knife, compass, and canteen.

My issue is with the career overall. This is the career that should be called Colonist imo and Explorer would be a specialization in it. Colonist should be changed to something like, Galactic Core Citizen or Hometown Boy, or Next Door Neighbor or something.

So there's been a lot of negativity, coming primarily from my end, but I'd like to return to the original intent and ask if anyone plays a scout and how they do it.

If your GM doesn't know how to use a scout, go ahead and voice that.

Ideas for using a scout, as a spotter for an assassin, etc... are welcome.

Crazy scout builds, especially involving the force, would be a sight for my sore eyes.

Selito - I play a scout in one of my games, and they DO work best when GMs allow Knowledge checks to gain advantages (successful Knowledge checks about a world gives a boost die, successful Xeneology checks give boost dice to interaction with that type of animal, or point out a weak spot). With that being said, being a Scout is more ability mobility and surveillance than anything else; the Strength in the class is being able to go to a place that the group doesn't exactly know - typically the wilds - and provide the group with information that benefits the group in their travels of that location.

You should be the first person into a new area and the best way to do this is either on a beast or in/on a speeder. You should be ahead of the group, scanning with macro binocs and if you spot something, you can use your knowledge checks to see if you can gain an advantage on it, then report that intel to your group. You should be doing this at far range, but you also can get closer with the boost dice to your stealth. Are you going to be at Thief or Assassin level stealth? No, but you're a decent third place, even without the skill training (Slicer gets stealth as a Career Skill, but no talents, so you're at about that level of stealthiness). If you do get into trouble, you have the ability to feasibly outrun whatever spots you. With your Strain Regen, Shortcuts and Let's Ride you should be able to get out of sticky situations to a decent degree, well enough to make it back to your group and report what you saw. If you absolutely are forced into combat, quick strike and disorient along with either a decent Brawn or Agility level will allow you to have an 'oh, ****!' button and make an attempt at an escape (typically works best on beasts). If you get hurt, due to getting into a skirmish, or by failing an Athletics check, you've got medicine as a skill to make minor healing attempts on yourself, which becomes particularly useful if you're out in the wilds, by yourself and trying to gather information for your group, your medic goes down, or there's no doctor in the group. One of the biggest bonuses of the Scout class is it's ability to boost the party's combat abilities; what it lacks in combat itself, the Scout can provide a variety of actions that can give the group the advantage in a combat situation with preparation. Familiar Suns is basically like scouting a planet without actually doing it, allowing the group to prepare for potential hazards and beasts. It could even give a scholar or scout what's necessary to run diagnostics for Xenology checks on beasts in the area, which could lead to boost dice if those beasts are encountered. Heightened Awareness gives the group boost dice to Peception and Vigilance checks, when your in a party. So, if while you're out scouting, you see troop encampments, you can return to your party with their location and help with preventing ambushes on your party; improving initiative checks are how a Scout can really improve a battle situation.

With the FSE Career Path, anything that boosts movement, Perception, or Vigilance (which all are available just with the base Tree). Both Move and Sense can greatly help out the scout, as they can make you even more elusive and an even more proficient spotter.

I understand how every career can't have combat skills, but, Scout is the one I don't understand how it doesn't. Some have pointed out the utility of Medicine as you are off in the boonies and wind up injured and I agree with that, and for the same reason a weapon skill would also be a must. I can't think of a Scout not having a weapon and being well versed with it as a basic skill. I think the specialization should have Ranged(H) personally. I can live without stealth I suppose, but to me a Scout is that guy/gal out in the boondocks with no one but their rifle, knife, compass, and canteen.

My issue is with the career overall. This is the career that should be called Colonist imo and Explorer would be a specialization in it. Colonist should be changed to something like, Galactic Core Citizen or Hometown Boy, or Next Door Neighbor or something.

They don't have combat skills because they are a combat focused class; they can make due with their Agility pool and Talents, but the Explorer Career isn't combat oriented. I implore everyone that believes that Scout's should be combat focused to once again read the CRB about Explorers and Scouts - they don't at all mention one thing about combat, nor do they mention a single thing about Stealth. I know because I just re-read it in case I missed anything. Scouts are not Snipers or Hunters in any way, shape or form. If you want to play a Hunter, there's a Career Specialization for that, it's called a 'Survivalist'... If you want to be a Stealthy Sniper, play and Assassin. If you want to play someone that sneaks around in civilization and spots out 'marks', play a Thief. If you want a character that can drop on to a planet, collect surveillance and return to the party to give that information, play a Scout. Scouts are more of runners than fighters, look at their skills and talents; yes they get some talents that involve combat, but those or more 'oh, ****!' buttons, than viable options for offense. These Talents also lend support to the group, making sure that your group is 'always prepared' - I'm throwing out the Boy Scout motto for HappyDaze .

In fact, HappyDaze makes a good point: Scouts in EotE ARE more like Boy Scouts than a Marine Sniper Scout (which you can make, just suck it up and and buy out of career skill training). They are the eyes and ears of the party, they are more like Calvary Scouts, or Scouts on sailing vessels... You know, the guys who ride in on a horse, quickly look over the area for hazards and report back to the ship. These aren't spec ops soldiers that are lone wolves, setting themselves up in some camping position, ready to snipe people when they move. No where in the class description does it even remotely give inference to that concept. Scouts ARE lone wolves, but they are more of the type that can get into an area, spot out a bunch of things, run a couple of Knowledge checks to gather more information about back to the group and relay the information. Scouts in a group are awesome at helping the group setup ambushes,spotting weaknesses in enemies, spotting for Snipers, assisted checks, preventing ambushes and providing triage. They can add to combat, but they are not a combat career. You can make them a little more combat focused by buying the non-career skills, but Scouts in Star Wars aren't really the best fighters (Scout Troopers, Probe Droids...)

Listen, I get why people have certain 'thought's behind what they want a class to be - you see 'Scout' and think of some stealthy ranger-type, our a Marine Scout Sniper, or something of that lot, when in fact, in Edge that isn't the case. If you want to play that type of character, their are other specializations that are tailored to that play-type. If you want to play a support player, that can move very quickly and help the group out with 'controlling the battle' through preparation, knowledge and better combat than Colonists or most of the Technician specializations, then Scout is a good way to play.

You say they aren't about stealth and combat and yet 10 of their 16 talents are about stealth and combat. You don't need to help your party be Vigilant to survey planets. You don't need to stalk a new hyperspace lane. You don't quickly strike a map. You don't disorient anything except a target you've hit. You don't burn strain exploring a strange new world. You say they aren't about combat and yet their talent tree does little else except support combat.

They've got one talent for planetary pilot if you call let's ride a piloting skill, it's really more about fleeing combat. They've got nothing that does a thing for medicine. One beagley rank of Forager for Survival.

You say they aren't about combat and I say they aren't built talent wise for much else. Plus your opinion about not mentioning combat in the write up, it seems to me "keeping his head attached to his body" doesn't speak to any sort of map reading errors. It's hardly a leap in assumption that someone on an unexplored planet is going to need to defend themselves, their talents would seem to agree, my opinion is simply that talents and skills should compliment one another in a specialization, they don't in Scout.

Well, this conversation is degrading pretty quickly. But, I do have to point out some facts here: four out of twenty talents are combat talents (Disorientx2/Quickstrikex2), two out of twenty are stealth talents (Stalkerx2) (I'm not sure how 16 talents was added up). So, a total of six out of twenty talents are related to combat AND stealth.

You're free to have opinions about a class that differ from the description of the Specialization in the CRB... But once again the CRB clearly defines the Specialization as anything but a combatant or a sneak, so that isn't my "opinion"; just for reference, keeping one's head on their body has just as much to do with avoiding or fleeing combat, than it does for pursuing a fight. They do have talents for if they get into a pickle, but that's roughly a quarter of the career specialization tree. The career specialization is 'Explorer Scout', not 'Military Scout'; Louis and Clark we're 'Explorer Scouts' - I'm sure they knew how to use guns and stalk animals for food, but I don't think they'd last for long in a gun fight against trained soldiers or sneak past the Native Americans they encountered. Scouts were designed in this model, if you don't agree with it, you don't have to play it; if you want a character which your described, a combat-oriented outdoors-man, pick a Survivalist. As a note, Survivalist gets Stalkerx2 as well and doesn't have stealth as a Career Skill... But criticizing how the Scout is designed, because they aren't implemented correctly in what you've experienced as a player doesn't mean that the Specialization is incorrectly designed, flawed or not a capable specialization for another player or group.

or sneak past the Native Americans they encountered. Scouts were designed in this model, if you don't agree with it, you don't have to play it; if you want a character which your described, a combat-oriented outdoors-man, pick a Survivalist.

Does Survivalist get Stealth?

(Not being facetious, just didn’t think they did.)

or sneak past the Native Americans they encountered. Scouts were designed in this model, if you don't agree with it, you don't have to play it; if you want a character which your described, a combat-oriented outdoors-man, pick a Survivalist.

Does Survivalist get Stealth?

(Not being facetious, just didn’t think they did.)

No they do not. I made mention of that in the sentence after you quoted:

Scouts were designed in this model, if you don't agree with it, you don't have to play it; if you want a character which your described, a combat-oriented outdoors-man, pick a Survivalist. As a note, Survivalist gets Stalkerx2 as well and doesn't have stealth as a Career Skill...

My thought process, from a developer perspective, is that these arch-types gain Stalker talents more for checks against wildlife than humanoids.

No they do not. I made mention of that in the sentence after you quoted:

Scouts were designed in this model, if you don't agree with it, you don't have to play it; if you want a character which your described, a combat-oriented outdoors-man, pick a Survivalist. As a note, Survivalist gets Stalkerx2 as well and doesn't have stealth as a Career Skill...

My thought process, from a developer perspective, is that these arch-types gain Stalker talents more for checks against wildlife than humanoids.

Sorry (blanked out there for a minute - didn't even see the next sentence (yeah, that's not worrying at all...)).

I disagree with any planet-side Scout (of any kind) not getting Stealth (Stalker seems a poor substitute) but have enjoyed reading your arguements. Ta.

Well, this conversation is degrading pretty quickly. But, I do have to point out some facts here: four out of twenty talents are combat talents (Disorientx2/Quickstrikex2), two out of twenty are stealth talents (Stalkerx2) (I'm not sure how 16 talents was added up). So, a total of six out of twenty talents are related to combat AND stealth.

You're free to have opinions about a class that differ from the description of the Specialization in the CRB... But once again the CRB clearly defines the Specialization as anything but a combatant or a sneak, so that isn't my "opinion"; just for reference, keeping one's head on their body has just as much to do with avoiding or fleeing combat, than it does for pursuing a fight. They do have talents for if they get into a pickle, but that's roughly a quarter of the career specialization tree. The career specialization is 'Explorer Scout', not 'Military Scout'; Louis and Clark we're 'Explorer Scouts' - I'm sure they knew how to use guns and stalk animals for food, but I don't think they'd last for long in a gun fight against trained soldiers or sneak past the Native Americans they encountered. Scouts were designed in this model, if you don't agree with it, you don't have to play it; if you want a character which your described, a combat-oriented outdoors-man, pick a Survivalist. As a note, Survivalist gets Stalkerx2 as well and doesn't have stealth as a Career Skill... But criticizing how the Scout is designed, because they aren't implemented correctly in what you've experienced as a player doesn't mean that the Specialization is incorrectly designed, flawed or not a capable specialization for another player or group.

Rapid recovery is for what? How do you burn strain other than in combat?

Heightened Awareness is for what?

Natural "Hunter"? Is there a non violent hunting option?

Utility belt, which I excluded. but honestly would one be more inclined to want a hand grenade at the last second or a compass?

There are no talents for Medicine. There is one for survival. There really aren't any for Planetary Pilot. Familiar Suns uses the Career skills not even the bonus skills. I excluded shortcut but I see little reason in game for chasing or being chased other than some sort of altercation. The rest are pretty standard fare like Grit and Dedication that everyone gets.

Feel free to show what talents Scouts get that support scouting as opposed to combat.

My mistake on the talent trees, it is 20 not 16.

For the historical record, Lewis and Clark's career was Soldier, not Explorer, so they already had their Range(L&H), as well as Melee. Scout was a secondary specialization.

A lot of good points have been made in support of Explorer/Scout, I'll see if I can add a couple more.

It does sound like a lot of the unhappy customers are looking to play the Spy/Scout that Maelora mentioned. To me, it seems that infiltrating enemy lines, monitoring troop movements, and setting up ambushes would fall more in a Spy/Scout's wheelhouse. Being the grizzled outdoors-man with a rifle falls under Big Game Hunter or Survivalist. That leaves Explorer/Scout with his "Tour Guide" or "Boy Scout" role.

Though I'd prefer to think of him as an "Everest Guide". His number one purpose is to make sure the "tourists" in the group make it home alive.

• Athletics means he's the first one up the rope, passing Boosts or upgrades to those who follow.
• Medicine is enough to make sure no one bleeds out from an injury, and Survival ensures the group is fed and sheltered.
• In a pinch, he can take the wheel of any vehicle, but he's better off riding shotgun and performing "Plot Course" to help the driver/pilot avoid danger.
• Strain mitigation means that he's alert enough to take the first watch while the rest of the group is sleeping off their aches and pains from the day's hike.
• Those Perception/Vigilance perks are all geared toward making sure the group isn't surprised by predators or ambushers. (Note that Heightened Awareness extends to Close range, not Short. To my knowledge this hasn't been changed in errata, yet.)
• I think having the Quick Strike and Disorient talents without combat skills points to the fact that he's more interested in blunting an attack than putting down the attacker (Which is what a BGH or Surivalist would do). Again, group protection is the name of the game.
• Then, of course, comes the 3 knowledge skills. With Familiar Suns (and possibly Sudden Discovery) I think Knowledge is core to his specialty. If a GM marginalizes that aspect of the game, the spec definitely suffers for it.

I haven't had a Scout at the table yet, but if I was to build one, I'd probably try to get Brawn, Agility, Intellect, and Cunning each to 3. Early in the campaign, I'd probably invest 1 or 2 ranks in a single combat skill to complement my weapon of choice (5 - 10 extra experience hardly breaks the bank). Then I'd move in on Heightened Awareness and Familiar Suns as quickly as I could. After that, it would just be a matter of maximizing my career skills and filling in the rest of the talent tree to perform the above mentioned tasks to the best of my ability.

No they do not. I made mention of that in the sentence after you quoted:

Scouts were designed in this model, if you don't agree with it, you don't have to play it; if you want a character which your described, a combat-oriented outdoors-man, pick a Survivalist. As a note, Survivalist gets Stalkerx2 as well and doesn't have stealth as a Career Skill...

My thought process, from a developer perspective, is that these arch-types gain Stalker talents more for checks against wildlife than humanoids.

Sorry (blanked out there for a minute - didn't even see the next sentence (yeah, that's not worrying at all...)).

I disagree with any planet-side Scout (of any kind) not getting Stealth (Stalker seems a poor substitute) but have enjoyed reading your arguements. Ta.

Well, like I said it seems like they made it more so like Scouts and Survivalists are okay a stealth, but not to the level of Thieves or Assassins, who have had intensive training in Stealth. They can do it 'naturally' with their own abilities, but they've received no formal training in being stealthy. You could always be a human and get a free rank in stealth, with either specialization, or buy non-career skills.. I think they want to keep the stealthy careers where they are, with the Scout being a solid support hybrid that can do okay with stealth, but shouldn't rely on it and the Survivalist, something similar...

Rapid recovery is for what? How do you burn strain other than in combat?

Heightened Awareness is for what?

Natural "Hunter"? Is there a non violent hunting option?

Utility belt, which I excluded. but honestly would one be more inclined to want a hand grenade at the last second or a compass?

There are no talents for Medicine. There is one for survival. There really aren't any for Planetary Pilot. Familiar Suns uses the Career skills not even the bonus skills. I excluded shortcut but I see little reason in game for chasing or being chased other than some sort of altercation. The rest are pretty standard fare like Grit and Dedication that everyone gets.

Feel free to show what talents Scouts get that support scouting as opposed to combat.

My mistake on the talent trees, it is 20 not 16.

For the historical record, Lewis and Clark's career was Soldier, not Explorer, so they already had their Range(L&H), as well as Melee. Scout was a secondary specialization.

Rapid Recovery is for strain management, not every ability that uses strain is combat related. Also, just because one is in combat, doesn't necessarily mean that they need to use strain to perform a combat action. Strain can also be used in a vehicle, performing non-combatant actions in or outside of combat. Strain can also be recovered more quickly from things, such as environmental hazards, fear lack of rest/food and non-combatant talents.

Heightened Awareness is Perception and Vigilance, so it not exactly a 'combat' talent. It can be used to give a boost to your group during initiative rolls, but it also can be used to give a boost to perception and avoid combat altogether. Vigilance is also the skill used for avoiding surprises in general, not just combat related surprises (the CRB mentions spotting an asteroid while in space).

Natural Hunter is a re-roll of a vigilance or perception check... This doesn't have to deal with combat, unless you roll a bad vigilance check on initiative and would like to re-roll it... You could be hunting for Treasure, hunting for a specific mineral source, slaves, a specific beast that you'd like to domesticate. The word 'Hunter' does not imply 'Game Hunter'.

Utility Belt produce a 'non-weapon' tool of with rarity no greater than 3... You can't pull out a grenade... You could however, pull out macrobinocs, a breath mask, a stim-pack, a comlink, something to help with fashioning a trap, etc...

Why are talent's necessary for medicine? The specialization isn't meant to be a medic. Medicine helps if the scout messes up a roll, or needs quick triage, but it's not a medic. Considering this character type would experience a lot of athletics rolls, or dealing with hazardous environments, training in medicine is something that would make sense. One Talent in survival because a Scout would need to know survival basics, like setting up camps, finding food and what not. It needs to be able to survive while it's scouting, but it's not a 'Survivalist' - there's a specialization for that; this specialization isn't described as being a character that goes down on a planet and lives there for a long period, living off the land. They go down, gather intel on what's on an alien surface, then come back to the group so that they can prepare for what's below.

Familiar Suns yes it uses career skills, but why does it matter if it uses specialization skills or not? The use of Core Worlds or Outer Rim on this one makes sense. Find out 'what is on the surface' and then the scout can use a Xenology check to analyze specific flora and fauna. If your party is doing a lot of travel to unknown worlds, this skill is awesome.

Shortcut and Let's Ride you are 100% correct about, they are used to avoid altercation. If your scout is on a speeder bike, ahead of the party surveying this is a nice 'oh, ****!' button that I mentioned (along with quick strike/disorient, which can be used offensively as well). Scouts aren't combatants unless you train them to be by multi-classing or buying non-career skills, which no one is stopping anyone from, but these Talents give the Scout the ability to outrun almost anything in a chase and get back to the safety of the party.

Every talent that you mentioned supports 'scouting'; scouting doesn't mean 'being stealthy' or 'being the best shot'. If you want to be stealthy with the best shot, pick an Assassin. If you want to be a rugged out-doorsman that can fighter, pick a survivalist. If you want to be the eyes and ears of the party, pick a scout.

And, I do stand corrected 2P51, Lewis and Clark were both military men . So, that statement was wrong of me.

I do want to make one little point toward history here, as this is what I found when I wikipedia's reconnaissance:

Traditionally, reconnaissance was a role that was adopted by the cavalry. Speed was key in these maneuvers, thus infantry was ill suited to the task. From horses to vehicles, for warriors throughout history, commanders procured their ability to have speed and mobility, to mount and dismount, during maneuver warfare. Military commanders favored specialized small units for speed and mobility, to gain valuable information about the terrain and enemy before sending the main (or majority) troops into the area, screening, covering force, pursuit and exploitation roles. Skirmishing is a traditional skill of reconnaissance, as well as harassment of the enemy.

(for a history, here you go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconnaissance). That description says nothing about being proficient shots, nor stealth. More about speed, mobility and reporting back to the main forces. Yes, they can skirmish, but their more about harassment (disorient, quick strike) than actually killing targets.

Spjork just beat me to the punch with what I wanted to summarize with; scouts are more along the lines of Sherpas (or like a said a couple of posts ago Calvary Scouts) than the Sneaky Spec Ops types that most people are accustomed to thinking when they see the word 'Scout' today. They are more guides through the wilderness and forward eyes/ears of the group, that can move with great haste with any intel.

my opinion is simply that talents and skills should compliment one another in a specialization, they don't in Scout.

This is the crux of it for me. Too many Explorer specializations don't line up the skills with their talents. It makes the whole career feel like an unfocused mess. Especially things like Knockdown which actually require a Triumph. You should multiclass to gain abilities outside your core powers. You shouldn't have to multiclass to use your core powers.

And Moses, you shouldn't have to take Force powers to make the career viable.

I don't disagree with anything you've written Spjork. All I pointed out was that the talent tree provides close to zero complementary support to those skills.

Athletics would be for climbing and swimming and such but nothing in the talent tree supports or buffs it.

There are no talents for Medicine.

There are no talents for Piloting.

There is one talent associated with Survival out of 20.

The Knowledge skills aren't part of the specialization, they are rooted in the career.

I would never tell anyone how to play their character, but if they want to play scout as it is written, they'd be better off playing a BH Survivalist, as at least the skills you can purchase are buffed and supported by the talents you will have access to.

Scout just isn't a very well designed specialization.

Pick any other one at random, since Survivalist was mentioned look at that.

First skill Knowledge(Xeno). Hunter and Expert Tracker would both support this, knowing what you are tracking, whether it can be domesticated, how to disable it. Honestly Xenology also talks about first contacts and such, Survivalist has it, Scout does not.

Next, Perception, kind of one of those wide open skills that could be used to complement a myriad of other skills and talents both. Noticing what native animals eat might be a pretty handy thing to know. Seeing that ***** in the armor before taking the shot, etc. Survivalist has it, Scout does not.

Resilience. Going without sleep, resisting toxins, enduring harsh environments. Kind of what you gave as examples. Blooded and Natural Outdoorsman both support it. Kind of vital to being a Scout, but it hasn't got that either.

Survival. Forager, Outdoorsman, Natural Outdoorsman, Expert Tracker. All directly support it.

That's a talent tree that enhances and complements a set of bonus skills. Honestly a Survivalist would be a better Scout per the write up for Scout in the CRB than Scout is.

No they do not. I made mention of that in the sentence after you quoted:

Scouts were designed in this model, if you don't agree with it, you don't have to play it; if you want a character which your described, a combat-oriented outdoors-man, pick a Survivalist. As a note, Survivalist gets Stalkerx2 as well and doesn't have stealth as a Career Skill...

My thought process, from a developer perspective, is that these arch-types gain Stalker talents more for checks against wildlife than humanoids.

Sorry (blanked out there for a minute - didn't even see the next sentence (yeah, that's not worrying at all...)).

I disagree with any planet-side Scout (of any kind) not getting Stealth (Stalker seems a poor substitute) but have enjoyed reading your arguements. Ta.

Well, like I said it seems like they made it more so like Scouts and Survivalists are okay a stealth, but not to the level of Thieves or Assassins, who have had intensive training in Stealth. They can do it 'naturally' with their own abilities, but they've received no formal training in being stealthy. You could always be a human and get a free rank in stealth, with either specialization, or buy non-career skills.. I think they want to keep the stealthy careers where they are, with the Scout being a solid support hybrid that can do okay with stealth, but shouldn't rely on it and the Survivalist, something similar...

Rapid recovery is for what? How do you burn strain other than in combat?

Heightened Awareness is for what?

Natural "Hunter"? Is there a non violent hunting option?

Utility belt, which I excluded. but honestly would one be more inclined to want a hand grenade at the last second or a compass?

There are no talents for Medicine. There is one for survival. There really aren't any for Planetary Pilot. Familiar Suns uses the Career skills not even the bonus skills. I excluded shortcut but I see little reason in game for chasing or being chased other than some sort of altercation. The rest are pretty standard fare like Grit and Dedication that everyone gets.

Feel free to show what talents Scouts get that support scouting as opposed to combat.

My mistake on the talent trees, it is 20 not 16.

For the historical record, Lewis and Clark's career was Soldier, not Explorer, so they already had their Range(L&H), as well as Melee. Scout was a secondary specialization.

Rapid Recovery is for strain management, not every ability that uses strain is combat related. Also, just because one is in combat, doesn't necessarily mean that they need to use strain to perform a combat action. Strain can also be used in a vehicle, performing non-combatant actions in or outside of combat. Strain can also be recovered more quickly from things, such as environmental hazards, fear lack of rest/food and non-combatant talents.

Heightened Awareness is Perception and Vigilance, so it not exactly a 'combat' talent. It can be used to give a boost to your group during initiative rolls, but it also can be used to give a boost to perception and avoid combat altogether. Vigilance is also the skill used for avoiding surprises in general, not just combat related surprises (the CRB mentions spotting an asteroid while in space).

Natural Hunter is a re-roll of a vigilance or perception check... This doesn't have to deal with combat, unless you roll a bad vigilance check on initiative and would like to re-roll it... You could be hunting for Treasure, hunting for a specific mineral source, slaves, a specific beast that you'd like to domesticate. The word 'Hunter' does not imply 'Game Hunter'.

Utility Belt produce a 'non-weapon' tool of with rarity no greater than 3... You can't pull out a grenade... You could however, pull out macrobinocs, a breath mask, a stim-pack, a comlink, something to help with fashioning a trap, etc...

Why are talent's necessary for medicine? The specialization isn't meant to be a medic. Medicine helps if the scout messes up a roll, or needs quick triage, but it's not a medic. Considering this character type would experience a lot of athletics rolls, or dealing with hazardous environments, training in medicine is something that would make sense. One Talent in survival because a Scout would need to know survival basics, like setting up camps, finding food and what not. It needs to be able to survive while it's scouting, but it's not a 'Survivalist' - there's a specialization for that; this specialization isn't described as being a character that goes down on a planet and lives there for a long period, living off the land. They go down, gather intel on what's on an alien surface, then come back to the group so that they can prepare for what's below.

Familiar Suns yes it uses career skills, but why does it matter if it uses specialization skills or not? The use of Core Worlds or Outer Rim on this one makes sense. Find out 'what is on the surface' and then the scout can use a Xenology check to analyze specific flora and fauna. If your party is doing a lot of travel to unknown worlds, this skill is awesome.

Shortcut and Let's Ride you are 100% correct about, they are used to avoid altercation. If your scout is on a speeder bike, ahead of the party surveying this is a nice 'oh, ****!' button that I mentioned (along with quick strike/disorient, which can be used offensively as well). Scouts aren't combatants unless you train them to be by multi-classing or buying non-career skills, which no one is stopping anyone from, but these Talents give the Scout the ability to outrun almost anything in a chase and get back to the safety of the party.

Every talent that you mentioned supports 'scouting'; scouting doesn't mean 'being stealthy' or 'being the best shot'. If you want to be stealthy with the best shot, pick an Assassin. If you want to be a rugged out-doorsman that can fighter, pick a survivalist. If you want to be the eyes and ears of the party, pick a scout.

I get what you're trying to say, but there is a big misconception about what a scout is in this game. They are careers sent to 'Explore' alien worlds and 'Scout' whats down there and return back with haste (flora, fauna, minerals, etc.). They aren't meant to scout military encampments, without being seen, and take fight with what they find. If you want a stealthy, military type scout Assassin's fit that bill: They can Sneak, use Perception to look at the area and kill things from far range. They are better at killing and stealth than the Scout, but not nearly as good at Perception, Mobility and Awareness. Scouts are more like guides that take people through dangerous places than military scouts.

And, I do stand corrected 2P51, Lewis and Clark were both military men . So, that statement was wrong of me.

What kind of surprise would you want to avoid that doesn't involve combat?

Avoiding combat is the same as being in combat, because they both involve combat.

You're wrong about Utility Belt, "This cannot be a weapon unless the weapon has a Limited Ammo 1 quality" CRB p.145. A grenade is a limited 1 so not only can you, it's exactly what I was talking about and what the talent is referring to.

Again I would never tell anyone how to play their character but an objective look at the talents leads to no other conclusion that the Scout specialization does an extremely poor job of both supporting it's skills, but also meeting the expectations of the write up. A Survivalist would be a better Scout than a Scout, both based on skills and the talents that support them.

So there's been a lot of negativity, coming primarily from my end, but I'd like to return to the original intent and ask if anyone plays a scout and how they do it.

If your GM doesn't know how to use a scout, go ahead and voice that.

Ideas for using a scout, as a spotter for an assassin, etc... are welcome.

Crazy scout builds, especially involving the force, would be a sight for my sore eyes.

I've played one. Eventually dropped him for a BGH when EtU came out. Was much more the character I wanted to play. As for how to play one:

The most useful skills in the tree for me were Rapid Recovery and Heightened Awareness. You can recover a couple extra points of Strain and boost Allies' checks a bit.

Let's Ride is a toss up. It's nice to get out of trouple and compliments Shortcut pretty well, but I didn't pick it up. The trouble being the rest of the party may still be in trouble while you're cruising away to safety.

Shortcut would be a stronger talent if you are the primary pilot of the group. I wasn't so I didn't see much use in it besides getting Disorient and a second, more expensive, Quick Strike.

Familiar Suns is a real POS. You can (for 15 XP) use a Knowledge Skill, once per session, exactly how you'd use it without the goram talent. The only good thing about this talent is that you aren't required to take it. You can literally pick up everything, but Familiar Suns.

Disorient is nice in that it isn't restricted to a particular combat check, and a couple Advantage isn't hard to come by with 2xQuick Strike.

Forager is pretty weak with only a single rank and even then how often are you facing two setback dice on finding food and water? Probably depends on the type of narrative you're in.

Utility Belt is almost like Familiar Suns. The CRB already allows a character to use a Destiny Point in more or less that same way.

Stalker, Quick Strike, Grit, etc. are pretty standard so no need to mention those I think.

I ended up cross specializing to get access to more support type talents. I think that's the real issue with the talents in Scout. With the exception of Heightened Awareness, you really do not support group members. That's alright for a specilization like Asssassin, but the Scout felt like he was lacking a place. He doesn't really hold his own in either combat or social encounters, but also doesn't really have much to offer in the way of boosting the group. With some investments, the Scout can be decent at most things, but I feel like Well Rounded should be in the tree somewhere along with some sort of talent like Field Commander that helps party members be more mobile. I mean Scout doesn't even get Swift to move over terrain without penalty. That's should be the thing for a Scout. Mobility is his thing. It's what he should be good at.

I guess I just fail to see why career skills must, forever-and-always, have talents to complement them, and why talents have to point back to a career skill.

If I'm rolling two yellows and a green on a pilot check, why does it matter that I don't have other perks to throw on top of that?

Likewise, if I'm rolling three greens and two blues on a stealth check, why is my life as a sneak incomplete because I have no skill upgrades?

I guess I just fail to see why career skills must, forever-and-always, have talents to complement them, and why talents have to point back to a career skill.

If I'm rolling two yellows and a green on a pilot check, why does it matter that I don't have other perks to throw on top of that?

Likewise, if I'm rolling three greens and two blues on a stealth check, why is my life as a sneak incomplete because I have no skill upgrades?

Then why have Talents at all is what you are saying. If they aren't going to support what you do why would anyone spend the xp on them?

I guess I just fail to see why career skills must, forever-and-always, have talents to complement them, and why talents have to point back to a career skill.

If I'm rolling two yellows and a green on a pilot check, why does it matter that I don't have other perks to throw on top of that?

Likewise, if I'm rolling three greens and two blues on a stealth check, why is my life as a sneak incomplete because I have no skill upgrades?

Then why have Talents at all is what you are saying. If they aren't going to support what you do why would anyone spend the xp on them?

In each example I was citing skill-without-talent and talent-without-skill. I'm not saying you don't need talents, I'm saying you don't need talents and skills on the same roll.

I'm not direct quoting because these message get way too long with it.

Maelora - the OP asked what FSE skills/talents would support a Scout build, so I said that anything that adds a bonus to Perception or Movement Speed would support Scout based skills not that FSE is required to make a Scout better.

2P51 - Vigilance helps with avoiding anything, from falling rocks, to exploding volcanoes which aren't combat situations. It ALSO helps with setting inititive. Avoiding combat is NOT the same as combat. Using perception to route around something dangerous is avoiding combat. If you scout Dathomir and you find a Rancor nest using macrobinocs and Perception, successfully avoiding that Rancor nest helps the group avoid a massive headache. You may be right on Utility Belt, I have my GM notes, so I don't have the CRB with me at work. If that's the case, then you could make the argument that Utility Belt is a boost to combat as you can still throw a grenade with a high Agility pool and no skill training.

And perhaps you're right, they should call the Scout 'Survivalist' and the Survivalist 'Scout'. But I think they were going off the Calvary Scout reference I mentioned earlier.

Here's the thing, I see a lot of people complaining about the Scout, which leads me more to believe that there aren't many campaigns being run with that take advantage of the Scout's skills. Metagaming and combat focus are two ways to make this career along with other obsolete; you don't need an Explorer in an on-the-rails adventure, or on an adventure where the PCs are sticking with populated worlds. If the Campaign is a sandbox, having Explorers are excellent with their Astrogation, Item Finding and 'scouting' abilities. Not every campaign and not every GM is going to craft this type of adventure. But that's not the Scouts fault; there are arguments for why the Bodyguard is kinda useless, why Scholars are kinda useless, Slicers? If your running a campaign on wild worlds, how useful is a slicer? OR a Politico?

And again, I'm with Spjork, I don't understand why there is such a ruckus about purchasing skills that are non-career skills. Many people are acting like it's against the rules to do so. If you want a Stealthy Scout that can shoot, pick a human, use the 2 free non-career skills to buy a rank and ranged whatever and stealth and get a couple of training ranks in them. They are 5XP more per rank... Being successful combatants (like a Mercenary Soldier, Bounty Hunter or Smuggler) isn't the Scout's focus, neither is Stealth. But nothing is preventing you from pursuing training in those skills if you want your Scout to function that way.

Dbutu - Familiar Suns is more used for unknown planets in either the core Worlds or Outer Rim that would be higher than a hard difficulty check. But yes, if the adventure is staying pretty cut and dry with not adventuring to 'new worlds' (basically worlds made up by the GM), then the Talent is useless. The Scout also doesn't get Swift, most likely, because the developer envisioned the Specialization to move through terrain mounted.

Dbutu - Familiar Suns is more used for unknown planets in either the core Worlds or Outer Rim that would be higher than a hard difficulty check. But yes, if the adventure is staying pretty cut and dry with not adventuring to 'new worlds' (basically worlds made up by the GM), then the Talent is useless.

When I first read the write-up on Sudden Discovery, something about it seemed familiar. It was only in digging back into the CRB for this topic that I realized it reminded me of Familiar Suns.

I'd definitely reward investment in Familiar Suns over and above a standard knowledge check. If a Scout with Familiar Suns had been with the group on Endor, I probably would have given him the idea that there might be a tribe of natives near the Imperial installation. Perhaps they could have made proper diplomatic introductions rather than coming in on spits.

Not to mention that a Scout with Heightened Senses might have helped the group detect those extra scout troopers and avoid losing the Diplomat.

I don't have any issues with purchasing non career skills. I think I stated in this series of posts I just think a career's skills and talents should complement one another, not ignore them. The Scout's talents do little to nothing for their skills.

I don't have any issues with purchasing non career skills. I think I stated in this series of posts I just think a career's skills and talents should complement one another, not ignore them. The Scout's talents do little to nothing for their skills.

I just think that separating career skills from talents reinforces the generalist vs. specialist trade-off.

Pilots and Thieves have skills to align with their talents, hence their specialization in each. The Scout has skills in one, talents in another, which spreads him out a little thinner.

If a Scout were to group up with a Doctor, Pilot, Thief, and Survivalist, he'd be playing second fiddle to everyone at the table. But if the Doctor ends up taking a nasty wound, or the group suddenly needs to pilot more than one vehicle out of danger, then the Scout is there in a pinch.

I don't have an issue with the idea of generalist vs. specialist either. Just glance through all the other specializations, combat or otherwise, it's readily apparent that all of them, to include Fringer, have talents that complement their bonus skills. Any specialization could just grab skills to go with stats and be just as jack of all trades.