A buddy of mine and me have a different rules interpretation on how Opposed Willpower tests work for psychic powers, and so I thought I'd consult the forums.

Consider the "Compel" power, though others are similar:

Focus Power Test: Opposed Willpower

Description : ... The psyker makes an Opposed Willpower Test against the target.

So here's the question: Do we need to do an opposed willpower test just to activate the power, and then an additional one to have any effect? I say that they are combined, but my buddy says that they are separate (perhaps due to balance issues).

I can see how from a very literal reading you might decide they are separate tests. Other powers have a Focus Power test, and then the description states what happens. In this case the description states that you have to make an Opposed Willpower Test, and doesn't explicitly reference the one from the Focus Power test. Is it distinct then, and you essentially need to win an Opposed Willpower test twice?

Also keep in mind that astropaths get a bonus to their Focus Power Tests (+5 for each Psy Rating). So if an Astropath (who already has a high WP) then also gets a bonus (for example +20 at Psy Rating 4), then they are *very* likely to win. So my buddy's thinking is:

1. First, you need to do a Focus Power Test just to activate it, and you get the +5/PR bonus.

2. Then you do another Opposed Willpower Test, with no bonuses. If you win this test as well then you successfully compel, delude, dominate, whatever.

Thoughts?

Btw, the one exception seems to be the Beastmaster power, which states in its description:

"...equal to his Psy Rating, and if the psykers succeeds at the Opposed Willpower Test, the target animals..."

In this case it explicitly refers to " the" Opposed Willpower Test, and previously didn't state anything to the effect of "The psyker makes an Opposed Willpower Test against the target".

I agree that a PC Astropath by this point is going to be rocking a Willpower Test, as the one in my campaign does. My reading of it though is that the Focus Power Test is an Opposed Willpower Test, so it doesn't make sense that there would be a separate one after the first test.

For ongoing powers you might conceivably require a test every round (thus making extended Mind Probing dangerous), but that can very easily turn sessions into a long dragging session while your Astropath debates whether or not to go for one more round.

How about Reprogram psychic power, that specifically states that you get +10 to Opposed Test for every 2 PR used. I know you should get it anyways, but its wrtitten in a strange way, as you normally get +5 per PR, and thats so obvious, you dont really need to remind in every power.

How about Reprogram psychic power, that specifically states that you get +10 to Opposed Test for every 2 PR used. I know you should get it anyways, but its wrtitten in a strange way, as you normally get +5 per PR, and thats so obvious, you dont really need to remind in every power.

Another really annoyingly written ruling, but because it doesn't make sense to stick that in there, then yes they do get an additional +10 for every Psy Rating used. There's still the normal cap of +60 to any skill test, but that just means there's no point at using it above Psy Rating 6.

My understanding of the rule for mine probe having read it last night is that it lasts up to five rounds and that each round the Psyker and his opponent make the same opposed willpower test and that mind probe ends after one of the following occurs:

1.The psyker chooses to stop

2. The target beats the psyker in one of the opposed willpower tests

3. The Psyker is interrupted by a third party or some external event

4. The target moves out of range.

5.The Psyker finishes five consecutive successful rounds of scanning (25 seconds narrative time) and discovers as much as he possibly can

Here's the thing about the bonuses, yes the Psyker has a big advantage from his psi-rating bonuses but he still has to win multiple consecutive tests whereas the target only needs to win one. Also nothing in the rule states that the target is rendered helpless by the process, regardless of whether he fails his latest test I see nothing saying the target cannot just punch the psyker in the face on his turn while the Psyker is 100% occupied by the process aside from reactions which it doesn't say he loses.

Failure at any level causes the Psyker to gain fatigue too, and at one degree of fatigue per degree of failure it's easily conceivable that he could pass out as a result because Astropaths usually don't have much of a reason to buy advances in toughness. So it's not really a combat technique obviously, you kind of need someone else to hold the guy down. Ideally you'd also whup his ass a bit first to give him a level of fatigue to reduce his willpower.

2. The target beats the psyker in one of the opposed willpower tests

The errata clearly states that Mind Probe only involves a single Focus Power Test, which is then Sustained for up to five rounds, however there are no subsequent tests necessary.

Also most people don't have Psyniscience (unless you're in Footfall), meaning there is no reason to be aware that your mind is being scanned. If your Rogue Trader engages in a brief distraction, or your Astropath is just quiet while "thinking" your offer over, that can easily provide enough of a window to begin the Mind Probe.

The one piece I'm unsure about is the mention that it requires "sustained effort" to maintain the Mind Probe, which might mean you can't do anything else while mind probing, but again if you sit someone down for negotiations they'll probably be seated within range during the scan.

Another example is Psychic Crush that alows you to grapple your opponent but isn't a sustained power. You have to cast it every turn, and make a new test every turn.

Well I do remember that doing mind probe surreptitiously requires that you do it at fettered with a -20 to your willpower meaning most player astropaths are going to be dealing with something like a 30% chance of success even though it's not opposed at that point. If I was the GM at that point and the player rolled a 91+ I'd probably also rule that not only did the probe fail but the target became aware of the attempt and furiously rebuffed it so the psyker also takes the one fatigue for each degree of failure.

I didn't consult the errata before making that post I'll look at it later, just the same despite being only one test I'd rule that it takes the psyker's full attention for the duration, the fluff in the ability description describes it as being a pretty rough process for both the Psyker and the target.

Another example is Psychic Crush that alows you to grapple your opponent but isn't a sustained power. You have to cast it every turn, and make a new test every turn.

I ruled that since it says "Start a Grapple using Willpower instead of Strength" then the power counts as sustained, but you use unmodified Willpower for the Grapple, and it still follows the "You can't do anything but Grapple" rule of Grappling.

I'd probably also rule that not only did the probe fail but the target became aware of the attempt and furiously rebuffed it so the psyker also takes the one fatigue for each degree of failure.

That seems a little harsh, although since it counts as failing the Focus Power Test, they should get the level of Fatigue as normal for failing this test.

Well it's not 100% by the book but we usually throw in some sort of consequence for what we call "critical failures" especially outside of combat like the time our tech priestess got a 96 on her tech use roll to interact with a stolen memorance implant she had on her worbench and was trying to recover deleted files from, so then rerolled it with fate and got an even worse result. So I ruled she shorted a connection and fried the thing.