PTL is very strong, but there are counters and it's not needed to win. 2013 World Champion did not have any PTL in his Squad and neither did second place, did they?

No one in the top four at Worlds used PTL, actually, and only one of the top eight squads used it (a Wedge-Biggs-two Rookies list).

In fact ... No one in the top four of the third Team Covenant Vassal tournament used PTL, either. Only one person in the top eight used it (and the squad was a weird one: Captain Yorr w/ Adv. Sensors, Engine Upgrade, HLC, Rebel Captive & ST-321; two Saber Sq. Interceptors w/ PTL & Shield Upgrade).

Neither of the top two finishers in the third Ludorum Red Five Tournament in Spain used PTL.

No one in the top four at the GenCon U.S. Nationals used PTL.

So yeah, it seems like the top players of the last six months have been finding better uses for 3 points than PTL.

WHAT????????

If anything push the limit is better not worse on A-Wings and TIE Interceptors. All those green maneuvers, not to mention Tycho's and Soonter's abilities that basically beg for you to put PtL on them.

This just doesn't make any sense to me.

I think what he is saying is that for the purposes of using it on A-wings and interceptors the current cost of 3 works, as those ships are already kind of expensive for what you get and raising the price of PTL would just hurt them. Not that they are worth less points on those ships.

I find the best way to fix PtL is Ion fire. Just having a Y-wing close with a ion turret will discourage a good from using the upgrade. And if they aren't a good player then the fun begins. Remember that 1 forward that you do while ionized does not remove stress.

WHAT????????

If anything push the limit is better not worse on A-Wings and TIE Interceptors. All those green maneuvers, not to mention Tycho's and Soonter's abilities that basically beg for you to put PtL on them.

This just doesn't make any sense to me.

I think what he is saying is that for the purposes of using it on A-wings and interceptors the current cost of 3 works, as those ships are already kind of expensive for what you get and raising the price of PTL would just hurt them. Not that they are worth less points on those ships.

There should have been a "not" in there... edited.

No other EPT makes me NOT want to have PTL. If something could come along that makes me want it more than PTL I'd consider it for Awings (who I've been flying less and less with it) and interceptors (again, PTL + stealth is about the only thing that makes them relevant).

I find the best way to fix PtL is Ion fire. Just having a Y-wing close with a ion turret will discourage a good from using the upgrade. And if they aren't a good player then the fun begins. Remember that 1 forward that you do while ionized does not remove stress.

unless you are an Xwing equipped with R2 astromech.

I find the best way to fix PtL is Ion fire. Just having a Y-wing close with a ion turret will discourage a good from using the upgrade. And if they aren't a good player then the fun begins. Remember that 1 forward that you do while ionized does not remove stress.

unless you are an Xwing equipped with R2 astromech.

Yes, Luke and Wedge can successfully use PTL around Ions. For the cost of 32 or 33 points. But they have no maneuverability associated with actions. So you still know exactly where they're going to be, and at most they're going to have a Focus for defense. PTL doesn't make them harder to kill, just hit harder.

PTL on an interceptor allows him to boost/barrel roll out of all sorts of arcs, and in the case of Fel, still have a focus laying around. Though typically it would be a boost or barrel + evade. This makes it such that you can't easily lock down a shot on one. So the fact that they use PTL defensively means that the stress they can't get rid of makes them a sitting duck. Same with an A wing and Tie Fighter.

So the fact that there are TWO pilots out there that can clear the stress from PTL if ionized, who can't further maneuver out of arcs, doesn't mean that ion is not a good counter to PTL. I would also like to point out that as PS8 and 9, you should be able to block Luke/Wedge, so even though he's destressed, he still can't further PTL.

My counter to Wedge with PtL is kill him. The same as my counter to every other Wedge. Since he can still only take one Focus and his PS is so high that it will probably use that focus on attack, means that even though he get's two actions he may still not have any actions for defense.

Wedge with PtL is arguably easier to kill since he has so few green maneuvers (even with an R2) you know where he is going to be the turn after his PtL.

Tycho is the problem. He can PtL one turn and then if he doesn't want to PtL again he can go anywhere he wants but his K-turn. He can save clearing the stress for later.

Tycho doesn't ever need to bother with clearing stress. He was my first experience with a K-turn-less ship. Once you stack 2-3, it's useless to attempt to clear them off, so I just treat him as if he doesn't have a 3K or 5K, and then the fact that he has stress doesn't ever matter (unless you put elusiveness or something like that on him, which would just be silly).

12 Green Squadron W/ PTL is a **** dangerous unit to fight against.......

12 Green Squadron W/ PTL is a **** dangerous unit to fight against.......

12 anything with PTL on them is dangerous.

wonder how they go against 12x Sabre Squadron with PTL? id like to see that.

The fact that PTL only really benefits ships that can take advantage of multiple actions a turn means something in itself. Is it that PTL is undercosted or other abilities are overcosted? The designer in me thinks it's the latter.

12 Green Squadron W/ PTL is a **** dangerous unit to fight against.......

12 anything with PTL on them is dangerous.

wonder how they go against 12x Sabre Squadron with PTL? id like to see that.

Well first of all the Sabre's cost 2 points more each. The Green Squads would be 22 points x 12 units, or 264 points, and the Sabre's would be 24 x 12 = 288, so that's 28 points the Greens are shorted by. It's not at all a fair fight. The Interceptors get initiative, an extra attack die and have Barrel roll in addition to boost with PtL, so you'd have to somehow equalize this.

12 Green Squadron W/ PTL is a **** dangerous unit to fight against.......

12 anything with PTL on them is dangerous.

wonder how they go against 12x Sabre Squadron with PTL? id like to see that.

Well first of all the Sabre's cost 2 points more each. The Green Squads would be 22 points x 12 units, or 264 points, and the Sabre's would be 24 x 12 = 288, so that's 28 points the Greens are shorted by. It's not at all a fair fight. The Interceptors get initiative, an extra attack die and have Barrel roll in addition to boost with PtL, so you'd have to somehow equalize this.

give he greens another 28pts and i think theyd still get creamed.

lets give rebels Tycho + PTL (29pts)

Push the Limit (3)Once per round, after you perform an action, you may perform 1 free action shown in your action bar. Then receive 1 stress token.

Is Push the Limit too powerful?

Is it the best and most undercosted Elite Pilot Talent?

Should it be more balanced? if you think so then how?

what if it gave two stress tokens instead of one? eg.

Push the Limit (3)Once per round, after you perform an action, you may perform 1 free action shown in your action bar. Then receive 2 stress tokens.

Unfortunately you can't get rid of ptl without redesigning interceptors...

Yeah - I think the problem with the "cost" of PTL is more inherent in the value of actions - Actions do not have the same value across different ships, or across different situations. Simultaneously, stress is not equally valued across ships or even pilot skill ranks.

Take into account the interceptor that boosts, but boost isn't inherent in a lot of ships they have to pay 4 just to gain access to the boost action. Every ship has focus - is boost worth more than focus? It can get us out of firing arcs or get us into range for a shot... Boost is also worth more at high P.S. than low P.S. - as boosting when you don't know where your enemy will end up is worthless - unless you guess right

Look at Evade - not all ships have evade - but taking the evade action is going to save us one damage - kindof like a shield really - so is it worth 4 points every time we use it? Well, what about focus, that can get us more evades than evade sometimes - but at other times, you might not get shot at with evade - and the focus token is worth more!

So - actions are contextual to the game and the ship. The Interceptor and A-wing are designed to move, and this helps offset their weakness in defense (they're both fairly squishy ships) - but it costs them that action. PTL let's us gain that second action - which is sometimes useful or not.

Where do you cost PTL? 5 points is a lot to some ships, cheap to others - 5 points means 24 point Green Squad A-wings w Ptl. I can run 4 of those ,and - one missile? We've seen that PTL doesn't bring that squad up to a level to consistantly deal with tough threats. PTL seems like a rip-off here, But at 5 points - it's a 32 point soontir fel +PTL - which honestly, doesn't seem that expensive to me, given his ability - and the fact that his boosts are going to be with pretty good knowledge of the game-state. That still seems like a bit of a steal. It's ALWAYS overcosted to some lists and undercosted to other lists.

Given that the nature of the game seems to reward more guns on the field, (law of averages and all) I think to balance the playing field, you cost PTL so that weaker lists can take advantage of it, because you're still getting fewer ships with it at the higher pilot end of the field - and let the game adapt to it. I certainly don't know what the designers conversations were about introducing PTL, but i'm sure they probably found a good reason to cost it where it is - I suspect that if we look at the root of the game and the Kniffen quote about the core game being designed for 1 x wing vs 2 ties - It seems like a fair bet that the cost was put at 3 to prevent Howlrunner + Black Squad x5 all with PTL from existing (which would cost 100 points at 2 cost).

Something that makes me sad about PTL is that it takes the EPT. I would love to put it on Wedge w/ Evasive handling. I would <3 barrel rolling with him, but not at the expense of his offense. Or daredevil. I would love to try out daredevil on someone besides vader, but its hard for me to give up my action on high PS units. I know this wouldn't work due to the double stress, but still, you get the idea. Note - I have no problem boosting/barrel rolling with low PS pilots, but I really want the high PS pilots to be damage dealers. It would almost make expose would using if you could couple it with PTL. It does work well on Luke w/ R2F2 at least.

Something that makes me sad about PTL is that it takes the EPT. I would love to put it on Wedge w/ Evasive handling. I would <3 barrel rolling with him, but not at the expense of his offense. Or daredevil. I would love to try out daredevil on someone besides vader, but its hard for me to give up my action on high PS units. I know this wouldn't work due to the double stress, but still, you get the idea. Note - I have no problem boosting/barrel rolling with low PS pilots, but I really want the high PS pilots to be damage dealers. It would almost make expose would using if you could couple it with PTL. It does work well on Luke w/ R2F2 at least.

yeah would be cool to get a new modification that adds +1 Elite PIlot Talent Slot. All pilots could use it. Y-Wings would get one finally and name pilots already with one could take the mod as well just balance out its cost so it wasnt too cheap. u would actually se some pretty cool combos of EPT working together and see some hardly used EPT's actually seeing more play.

I should have said with some sort of missles also......

and have beat the crap out of a large intercepter unit. sorry my friend Rick..