I just don't see the usefulness of this card. It basically blows an action to do what a Kiogran can already accomplish. I mean, there are situations where it might work, given that you can pull hard maneuvers after your dial has been revealed, but if you're good enough at flying something like an Interceptor then you're rarely if ever in a situation where you need it, and PTL is far more versatile. So if someone is out there who is in the know, educate me.
Daredevil: Why bother?
PTL is by FAR more versatile.
The bad parts of Daredevil far outweigh the good, but its good parts are awesome.
In a game where Firing Arcs matter this much, being able to perform EITHER 90* turn, at your own discretion, is far more powerful than a koiogran.
if you are planning it out, the flightpath is extremely difficult for your opponent to predict, unlike the always-straight Koiogran path.
The true glory of it is that you can use it as an action, rather than as part of your maneuver, meaning that you may do your sudden and stressful turn when it is at its most convenient.
If it didn't have that bloody self-damage mechanic, It'd be a contender against PTL.
As it stands, it pretty much requires an Engine Upgrade as well, turning into a 7 point upgrade.
I think it might be useful if a k-turn would put you off the board, out of range, or into an obstacle. If you want a close pursuit, daredevil might be useful. If you are nose to nose with an enemy that barely gets away, you can hard turn, daredevil, and blast them from behind.
its def overcosted for what it does. have only ever considered it on Darth Vader because as u point out u need to burn an action to use it.
would have perhaps been more useful if ur ship just gained the 1 turn movement option and u take a stress.
Daredevil 2
This ship gains the 1 turn movement option. If your ship already has this movement option execute a free boost immediately after this turn and take 1 stress.
Its the fact its an action that really hurts it. so in my revamped version of Daredevil it doesnt cost an action to use it but you lose your action due to the stress.
Why is Daredevil 2 better than the original versions?
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Your ship can now do the 1 sharp turn if it couldnt already
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Tie fighters with this can now effectively to a U-turn on a dime similar to a K-Turn as they still get stress but they effectively get to 'sidestep' and move their firing arc - could be pretty nasty in the right situation or let you slingshot around an steroid staying really close to it
- Seem too powerful? remember its n EPT so only pilots like luke or wedge could take it, Black Squadron Pilots etc so assuming it still costs 4 thats not going to break this upgrade, not even close.
If it didn't have that bloody self-damage mechanic, It'd be a contender against PTL.
As it stands, it pretty much requires an Engine Upgrade as well, turning into a 7 point upgrade.
Well either that of you're flying it on an Interceptor or an A-Wing, which I imagine is the intended purpose. Though it might work alright on a Firespray too.
I think it might be useful if a k-turn would put you off the board, out of range, or into an obstacle. If you want a close pursuit, daredevil might be useful. If you are nose to nose with an enemy that barely gets away, you can hard turn, daredevil, and blast them from behind.
Yes but as it stands, I have absolutely no trouble dogging my opponent with Interceptors (the likely choice for this Talent). So while it may have many uses to other players, I'm still not likely to swap it out for PTL, Expert Handling or Veteran Instincts any time soon.
Edited by That One GuyI just don't see the usefulness of this card. It basically blows an action to do what a Kiogran can already accomplish. I mean, there are situations where it might work, given that you can pull hard maneuvers after your dial has been revealed, but if you're good enough at flying something like an Interceptor then you're rarely if ever in a situation where you need it, and PTL is far more versatile. So if someone is out there who is in the know, educate me.
Overall I think it works best on Baron Fel because you will get a free focus with the stress. In a close range dog fight using D.D. can be very lethal on the Baron esp if you got four cannon dice.
Green Leader also barely gets any negatives for using D.D.
I just wish since it is a white manuver you could still use it even with a previously earned stresser.
Just try out DareVader (Vader, Daredevil, and Engine Upgrade) and see how easily that man dodge firing arcs.
Tycho can use Daredevil to make a sharp corner where he wouldn't be able to K-Turn because of stress.
Tycho is actually likely the best canidate for it, although he is good with ptl as well, hence the problem with this card. Baron has ptl as the defualt on top of elusiveness, and soon to be opportunist as options. Still turning that firing arc can be clutch, and does help tycho out when he can't k turn. Could essentially be a white manuever if captain yorr is around. Unlike some other actions that take a stress token to do w/e (elusiveness, opportunist, lorrir, etc) where not actually gaining the stress removes the cost so you can't do those actions, this is not worded that way, so you could have your cake and eat it too. Unfortunately, the same can be said for PTL.....
One thing this let's you do though that barrel roll/boost won't is let you actually ram into other ships to not get shot by them. It's probably somewhat rare where that would work and a barrel roll/boost could not get you out of arc anyway, but it could happen. And it would still change you're facing to shoot behind that ship, and may even move you less distance that a 1 turn. Too bad arvil can't use it.
Maybe they will make a pilot that rams into things one day.
Gentlemen, don't forget that a Kio is a red maneuver! You should not try a red maneuver when you are stressed! So there are situations where you are stressed and need that turn, and kio is out of question then.
I tried Daredevil on Vader and it worked like a charm. Racing forward 5 and then turning in hard, right into the flank of the enemy ships. None were able to shoot at Vader. It was beautiful. Too sad Vader is so weak when it comes to dealing damage, he was able to dodge and evade firearcs just fine during that game (with a ton of movement options thanks to DD), but did not really deal any significant damage.
I would not put DD on any other ship though, honestly. It was made for Vader. It might seem ok on Soontir (nice hard turn and the free focus token) but Ptl is better there.
3 reasons NOT to use Daredevil
- Push the Limit
- Push the Limit
- Push the Limit
It's also great with Advanced Systems. A hard right turn before a maneuver is just terrifying some times.
Particularly if that maneuver is Green...
3 reasons NOT to use Daredevil
- Push the Limit
- Push the Limit
- Push the Limit
PtL doesn't let you take a hard turn... DD has its use, you just need to put it on the right ship...
Feels like a card that is overshadowed by PTL but may make a combo at some point.
3 reasons NOT to use Daredevil
- Push the Limit
- Push the Limit
- Push the Limit
PtL doesn't let you take a hard turn... DD has its use, you just need to put it on the right ship...
in all honesty DD is way too situational. for a start the 'right ship' is probably Vader with Engine Upgrade or perhaps an A-Wing.
PTL is useful on any intercepter pilot with an EPT.
Would you rather have PTL or DD on Turr Phennir ? how about Soontir Fel ? Wedge Antilles ?
PTL has even found a home on popular pilots like Howlrunner because it gives her options that help in defense situations but also in attack.
While you are searching for the 'right' ship for DD iv found 4 popular pilots that already commonly use PTL and for good reason.
No matter which way you slice it DD is over-costed and situational.
I challenge anyone to put DD in a 100pt list that is better off with DD over PTL.
Edited by The_Brown_BomberFeels like a card that is overshadowed by PTL but may make a combo at some point.
yep. right now its bad. lets see what FF gives us in the future that makes it worth those 4pts.
I guess I see it differently, I call it strategy and tactics, and not situational. It's obviously designed for ships with boost abilities, and those ships will be able to take advantage of its use better than others wothout. Not to mention the possible damage inflicted if you roll poorly.
I feel the use of DD is possibly designed around the close in dogfight where stress shedding is easier and the ships that don't have a hard turn can take advantage of it.. but then I see uses for other upgrades and pilot skills that some see as useless. I honestly don't feel FFG makes a useles card for a game, people just don't see the use.. or fail to find what it is good for.. I try to think out of the box.. these dogfight games have a great strategy to them and I'm always trying to figure out how to get more bang for my buck..
I think Tycho is the only ship that can use DD effectively, either than a tricked out Vader. I would have to try it out sometime with my playgroup to see how he works with it. It seems more of a situational EPT than a good regular use one, but I could be mistaken.
Darevader can, in one turn, make a white 1 hard left, boost slightly to the left, then make another 1 hard left, coming around 225 degrees in a single turn. He can end up nearly shooting the position he was just sitting in FROM BEHIND
Edited by ErulethoI'm really glad that PTL is in the game but sometimes it does seem a little bit too good. I usually want to put it on almost every ship that I field.
Darevader can, in one turn, make a white 1 hard left, boost slightly to the left, then make another 1 hard left, coming around 225 degrees in a single turn. He can end up nearly shooting the position he was just sitting in FROM BEHIND
The Tie Advanced only has a 1 bank on its dial. It can't 1 turn, boost, and 1 turn again. You can't use daredevil twice because it is an action to activate (even though Vader can do 2 actions they can't be the same ones).
Darevader could 1 bank (from dial), boost ( engine upgrade ), and 1 turn ( daredevil ) and gain a stress to turn 180. Be cautious as daredevil will hand you a stress token and will block any remaining actions on Vader so do it as his last action.
Daredevil is a maneuver. You can use it to ram into an opponent and he cant fire at you. Put this on, say Carnor Jax, and see what happens
Darevader can, in one turn, make a white 1 hard left, boost slightly to the left, then make another 1 hard left, coming around 225 degrees in a single turn. He can end up nearly shooting the position he was just sitting in FROM BEHIND
The Tie Advanced only has a 1 bank on its dial. It can't 1 turn, boost, and 1 turn again. You can't use daredevil twice because it is an action to activate (even though Vader can do 2 actions they can't be the same ones).
Darevader could 1 bank (from dial), boost ( engine upgrade ), and 1 turn ( daredevil ) and gain a stress to turn 180. Be cautious as daredevil will hand you a stress token and will block any remaining actions on Vader so do it as his last action.
Oops, I'd forgotten the Advanced's dial was just a faster X-wing... lol well, it's still really impressive on Vader. It K-turns him laterally instead of vertically if you boost then DD.
I will offer the dissenting opinion.
I actually think Dare Devil is quite good, and easily worth the 3 points. The fact that you do it as an action is huge, allowing you to adapt to your opponent's moves.
Unfortunately, it appears weak because it is in the same slot as the terribly undercosted Push the Limit. PTL is easily worth 5 points, it dramatically improves every single ship it is put on. Even at 5 points you would still be hard pressed to find a better value, at 3 points it is an auto-include on nearly every ship that can carry it. What other EPTs do you regularly see? There are a bunch of them, and all of them are pretty good in some way, but I would venture to guess that PTL hits the table twice as often as all the other EPTs combined. Interceptors? Push. Howl? Push. Firespray? Push. Gee, Mauler isn't really all that great, but if you had 3 more points to spend what upgrade could you put on him that would outperform PTL, especially in the EPT slot? Just think of how difficult Chewie would be to kill in the Millenium Falcon if he had.... wait for it... Push. Even Han Solo gains pretty dramatically if he has PTL to get an evade on his Falcon. The only ship I don't think PTL works on is Vader, and that is because he can already do it.
Push the Limit is one of my least favorite cards in the game right now, only because it dramatically reduces the variety of EPTs I see used. Who in their right mind would ever take Elusiveness when for only 1 point more you could have an evade every turn? Playing with Daredevil is a lot of fun, and I don't ever regret taking it. I feel like I get my points out of it every time. On the other hand, every time I use it I am aware the entire time that PTL would have been a better choice for that 3 points.