Sometimes SoC is the only card keeping a chaos deck from winning by means of a giant powerful fire kick. Should def help in that regard. Its e also helps deck filter to getting what ever kill you need.

Guys we all complain and stuff and I know the economy is hard on all of us. But without ur's the company wouldn't make money, lets just keep it real. These licenses cost alot. So if you like this card game, go buy stuff, trade etc and get what you want/need. URS should be good, if sets only had power cards as uncommons you'd buy two boxes and be done. Espeically with these new ratios, god getting 2 sexy uncommons that are the same in a box is so pringles.

So all this whining is lame man, lets just drop it. I know I can sometims be captain complainer, but sersiously. This game is in a better spot right now than its been in a long, long time. So let's enjoy it and just learn to adjust, things will never be exactly how you want them to be or how they use't to be. Even my stubborn ass has had to learn this, I still want yoga though . Wait sorry, haha. Seriously though lets just enjoy this game. We all hate having to spend money, but what else are you going to do with your extra hobby money? Play yugioh, buy hookers? NO WAY! UFS SON!

B-Rad said:

Kudos to whoever scammed you out of all that money, then. Those are crack prices. Twenty for Heel Snipe? Mmmmm...no.

And I hate to say it, but...games cost money. This is STILL cheaper than YGO, where a SINGLE COPY of something can run you over $200.

And I'm with Scooter.

A lot of thoes listed cards are/were won from events or given away as sales incentives. I didnt pay any sort of post market singles price for my Owlfaces, Tiras Contracts, Chesters Backings, KOF 2006, or Seals and a lot of people can say the same thing. I know a large amount of people who literally got thier seals just from attending events and never winning. Also most Major tourney events in UFS history were won with substantially less valuable (after market price) decks. Olexas worlds vega deck was chain throw loop for christ sake. Im pretty sure the 2 most costly decks in UFS winners history were hatas worlds Ibuki and Omars Voldo Mill Nationals, and both of them come in under that price tag your assigning to your deck.

Some of the most devistating decks I've played against in recent times are decks that ran starter cards like Reppa which arent exactly the hardest thing to get. You can build a comprehensive deck that will absolutley win a major event without a massive singles budget. Stop building with spike like its the only win condition and perhaps you can find a cheaper build.

B-Rad said:

Yo son i,m sorry but someone saw yo ass coming A MILE AWAY!!!!!!!!! and just wanted to get rid of some of their extra stuff. Seriously though I agree with proto on what he said 100% you don't have to have all of that stuff and might still win in a big tourney. The key is to think of a idea to a deck that no one has thought of and their you go. YO I,M SORRY $75 FOR THREE CHESTER'S **** !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YO I HOPE THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE OF PRICES PLEASE LET IT BE THAT PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF PLEASE LET IT BE.

Well, sort of. That IS the current price listed for them on CSI. Buuuut...given that they were available in prize support FOR FREE?

Yeah, I didn't pay for my set of them at all. And I traded (at a reasonable value of $10-ish) for the one I gave away to our last place finisher today.

So you're either overestimating the price you paid for these cards, or you bought them right as they came out/before they were legal, which is why you got screwed on the price. No-one to blame but yourself, in that case.

This is why buying a maximum of 2 of any Super Rare card is recommended by Geese, especially right when they drop and their value hasn't been cemented by "that place" yet. Unless they are trying to take you to the cleaners for them, that is (see $25 Twilight Embrace on Ebay).

Out of complete boredom (and acknowledgement that it's going to take me awhile to get the stuff I need for a full Fire deck), I built a Chaos Kyoshiro deck. I forwent Controller of Souls (with Oral Dead and Red Lotus, I don't see it as necessary). Speaking of which. Wisdom from a Confidant with Kyoshiro is kinda good...

These are the foil cards in the deck:

Lord of the Makai-4 copies. KOF 2006-4 Copies. Tira's Contract-3 Copies. Olcadan's-3 copies. Mega Spike-4 copies.

The rest of the deck is common and uncommon. (Fire Kick. Serious business). No, you don't need to Defender loop to win with the Chaos symbol. If you don't know how well you can generate momentum with the symbol to kill with a powerful attack or Flying Edge....you're not paying attention to the base that Chaos has

Out of 64 cards (deck size), only 18 are foil. EVERYONE has Owlface. Scratch that off. KOF 2006 is not really that expensive, nor hard to come by (you'd be surprised). Scratch that off. Mega Spike is cheap. They're in bulk. You can get them VERY easily. Scratch that off.

So you come down to 7 cards out of 64 that are fairly tough to come by.

I'll take that ratio ANY day of the week.

THAT BEING SAID.

It's unfortunate that the market price for Controller of Souls is so high. However, I can nearly guarantee you that the price for those cards will NOT remain that high. It'll come down in a short time.

That doesn't change the fact that CoS came as a UR. Since it is All and Voids' only manner of dealing with Owlface, it is kind of a bummer.

Then again-Heisheng Jian was All's only defense against Owlface as far as I can remember in block 2 (feel free to correct me on this-I could be wrong). And it was unique with a 3 check. Yeah...>.>.

I think that Olcadan's is the only reason people are complaining that Controller Of Souls is a UR. If it didn't exist, t would be fine as it was. Think about all the other things it can stop. Defender, Seal Of Cessation, Soul Calibur, Soul Edge, Pseudo-Souls and a lot more. It needs to be a UR, as it's extremely powerful, when you look at it. The fact that people immediately pen it as Void and Alls only answer to Olcadans, well, doesn't that say more about Olcadan's Mentoring than it does about Controller Of Souls?

HolyDragonCloud said:

Yo where in the hell can you get mega spikes in bulk from cause if that's the case then YOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

Listen guys Olcadan's is dumb. We all get that. Ant those of you who say its not over-powerful/a deck stopper please listen. All of the so called answers for olcadan play right now that i've seen in this forum is:

1. Play Around it.

2. Run good foundations.

3. Dual-Symbol for answers.

4. Run cards like Begin-Anew/Yoga Adept

5. Run attacks like Juni's Cannon Drill/Still Dragon/Air Stampede

6. SoC it away.

i believe that that is about all the answers so far for All negation of olcadan's. And here is my answers to all of those in order:

1. If you truly believe you can just play around a card that can be easily run in EVERY deck you need to play a couple more games.

2. If you can honestly say to me that your deck doesn't have at least 1 set of not so good foundations and it can beat decks.... i wanna see that build.

3. Dual symboling has been dealt with. It can half the number of playable cards in your hand. Dual/Tri Symboling is very much like an art and without the right cards/symbol combination it is very hard.

4. Both of these are still Rares and ultra rares and sought after. Begin-anew still requires dual symbols/running a character that at least has death on it (BB hood**, Dan**, Hugo*, Remy*, Rera**, Yun**). Yoga adept is somewhat situational, in that i have to have it in my hand and not use it on anything else they play that turn (seeing how olcadan's is a 0 diff. so is usually played last on a turn.)

5. All those attacks are ok but require me to run attacks outside my kill and have effects that require them to hit. And when i have to have my board up and running to make my kill hit.... Same goes for these attacks now. And some of the effects only stop it for a turn or have costs i might not be able to pay.

6. Unless your me, and ben shoemaker will attest to this, it is nearly impossible to recurr SoC enough to stop olcadan's effectively.

my point is when those are your options your screwed so yes if an all or void deck wants to handle olcadan's effectively they need Controller of Souls. That being said i'm perfectly fine with having this card be an ultra rare. This card's point is not to stop olcadan's. It's point is to stop: SoC, Olcadan's, Defender, White Gi, Looks that kill, Namu Abi Dabi**, Orange gi, Soul-Edge/calibur*, Pseudos, and much more. This is why this card is so rare. I'm sorry All players. Its not like your decks aren't already really powerful or anything. you'll just have to deal with the fact that although you still have no officially easy answer to Owl Face (your only weakness). Every symbol has a weakness and if you work hard enough you can make that weakness almost disappear but you can't ask for a fix all for your deck's only weakness. Thats just not fair.

I really feel like half the people didn't read my post that was "whining" about CoS being rare btw.

I think UR foundations are a bad thing, period. See my earlier post for explanation. If yo uare inclined to disagree, that is fine. But the numbers speak for themselves, 50 dollar competitve decks in block 1 were not only available but abundant. Block 2 cheap decks were non-existant on a competitive level. What was the difference? A few highly coveted chase UR's(also present in block 1 and didn't mess everything up). And Promo/boxtopper foundations with incredibly high value(not present in block1). The information is right there, whether you choose to believe it or not is up to you.

I never said All/void "instantly loses" when olcs hit, I'm pretty sure no one did, so stop putting words in peoples mouths to improve your point. Olc's is a nightmare for All/void and in the long run will often spell your downfall as such deck, but some games it cripples you, other games it just hinders you, but doesn't stop you.

I do not have a problem with UR's.

I do not have a problem with expensive cards.

I do not have a problem with spending money to own competitive decks.

I do not think that there is no affordable decks in the format.

I think there are some symbols that cannot be played cheaply with any sort of effectiveness.

I think ALL UR foundations are a bad thing, not just Controller. Controller is probably the most significant foundation in this entire set, so it is the poster child for the issue.

Thats about it.

"Olexas worlds vega deck was chain throw loop for christ sake"

Andrews Vega Worlds deck was not Chain throw loop, common misconception. It could Chain Throw loop, but it basically never did. IT key'ed off of Start over + vegas mask for instant lockdown and Looping Kubi Ori+Gylkuis+Shinobi Tradition+Vega's Ability for Huge Kubi Ori's. The other vega deck at worlds was pure chain throw loop I believe, andrew had chain throw in his deck and Kunai(usually played after a start over or Chain Throw) but that wasn't his focus.

failed2k said:

Quoted for truth.
Especially when its a card two symbols desperatly needed it.

I agree with Jeremy on this one, mostly b/c hes put his point together well and it mirrors my opinion. I agree with MakingSense as well b/c he provides a valid arguement., not b/c hes in my play group.

Block 4 is year away, poor arguement.
The other answers that antigoth dropped are nice and all. But they aren't truely reusable. And thats the problem. One shot answers to something so free is not a true answer.

Just my 2 cents. Quick Arch tell me how to play!!!

failed2k said:

Again I disagree that ultra rare foundations are bad and my reasoning is stated previously. We will have to agree to disagree.

As to cost...Controler of souls is not a BRT. Controler of Souls is not a Lord of the Makai. Its just not. It will be even less of those, assuming we don't get another Owlface or the like, when the things its 'needed' to combat go away. Will it be nice to have? Yup, just like any other super rare should be.

As to me apparently just trying to up my argument by saying 'all/void instantly looses when owlface hits the board'... I never said that. I wasn't even responding to you when I semi implied that. My statement, if you had bother to read the context in that it was made, was in response to yoga adept and the statement "well most people aren't using it against owlface they're using it against other things". My point was that if owlface is making you loose games, and its causing you all sorts of trouble maybe you shouldn't be targeting those other things and should consider using it agasint owlface.

As to Nfxon and the argument that every symbol needs reusable answers to owlface. I have to agree with arch on this and say no...no they dont. Not all symbols have re-usable consistant answers to everything, nor should they.

BlindProphet said:

My apologies as I may have been misconstruded. I'm not saying every symbol should have an answer to olco. I was merely commenting on the provided "answers" to the card in a given symbol. But I'll stand by the statement that if a deck doesn't have reusable answers its not going to consisitently perform well in a large tournament enviroment.

No deck instantly looses to olco. My problem is what it does for fairly no cost. And theres really absolutely NO reason not to run it.

UR foundations being bad or not aside, this card is 100% not the only answer these symbols have to the owl. All probabaly has the better selection of answers in that thier answers are almost universal answers such as BRT and Yoga Adept. Void however now has Dead for One Thousand years which is just rare and have a lot more utility outside of Owlface, Experenced Combatant, and Still Dragon (all and void).

Here 2 other often overlooked way to get around the OWL. Play aggro and go for a turn 2. I know its not always possible, but some decks can accomplish this and they sure as hell arent using thier owl if they are dead before they can. The other way is to play less foudnations. Run only important foundations, ones you wouldnt mind having if they were owled. Then use lynettes shops as 4 more foudations. Void has access to High tide so they can run more attacks without ruining thier control ratios. People have complained that thier are not enough people running multiple attacks, well i would say now its much more viable than it has been in a while and that alone will help fix the problem.

Protoaddict said:

Now this post I have nothing to disagree with. There are a few workarounds for owls in that list that im pretty okay with for sure.

Antigoth said:

Let see whats wrong with this.

4 of these cards are 2 checks which is fine as long as you are not already playing some 2's or 1's so they really are answers when you will be disrupting the flow of your deck.

Begin anew is an answer as long as you have death.

These really arent viable answers for most decks.

As for controller of souls against anybody playing these cards its not that effective

chinese boxing

program malfunction

psycho style

chesters backing

preventing the curse

that all i can think of off the top of my head.

This card helps but by no means is an answer

Oh yeah and i am saying every symbol should have an answer in varying effectiveness to owlface. that would balance some things out. If they are going to print cards that change/warp/effect the format in any significant way they they need wide spread answers. If the symbols in this game actually stood for something then it would be a lot easier to do.

Why shouldn't there be answers for everything in every symbol. If they print an answer on one card then 3 symbols get an answer. If its on a promo 5 or six get the answer.

Nfxon said:

My droogs, I am not in this thread telling people how to play. And when it's you (Mr. Shoemaker), I do not think it is my place to tell you how to play.

I'm in this thread telling people that they need to stop complaining about the rarity of this card.

It is my whole hearted belief that not every symbol should have a permanent and effective answer to Olcadon's Mentoring, and that when you've been GIVEN an answer in a symbol you want to play you should be grateful in the first place, no matter how rare that card is. If you want it that badly, go out and get it.

I come off as harsh, but that's the only way to get people to read and think critically about my posts. If I came in here and held everybody's hand and joined in the chorus of "BWAAAAAAAAH" then nothing would get accomplished.

I'd also ask that we don't resort to any smart mouthing here...kinda not cool.

rulemonkey said:

Last I heard everyone runs Seal of Cessation. Which means everyone has Death. But I'm a bad player, so just ignore me, because I've already been pwned for posting the list to begin with.

Also... lets revisit this after this coming weekend, and see if this is still as much of an issue.

rulemonkey said:

So wait a second... The whole thread is about Controller of Souls being a chase UR, because it's so good.

If it's not that effective, why is it a chase UR, that's an auto-include for an All deck?

You guys have lost me.

Maybe its just my playgroup, but it seems everyone in Rochester, Ny cracked one of these. If my area is any indication of how easy it is to crack these and other URs the price these things should drop considerably. I think once more packs have been opened and after the initial hype has died down that they will be down to maybe $10-12. Not to bad for a card this good.

Antigoth said:

Everyone doesnt have death just because they have seals. people play seals to negate stuff not gain the symbol.

Its chase because of hype not worthy of the attention. The set just came out let the newness wear a little and determine the chase stuff then.

^What he said. I honestly think that half of the URs in either set could potentially be chase URs and have Andrew Jackson hiding in the picture, but the fact that there are SO MANY of them means that if the prices go high, it'll be extremely profitable to buy boxes instead of singles (and if you can sell all the chase cards... which will kill the prices), or the prices will simply never inflate. For example, Knight Breaker IMO is only marginally better (+0H vs +3M) than Tsuji Hayate, and yet one is somewhere around 100 times as valuable as the other. URs might end up in the $8 to $10 range for the strong ones, up to $15 for the very best, but I don't think anything will have a sustained secondary market price like Feline Spike, Defender or Addes did.

the reason those cards were expensive varied

feline spike is expensive because you cant get the set anymore

addes was expensive because people couldnt seem to pull them - ie distribution

defender is expensive because that set was kinda lack luster and isnt really appealing to spend your money on