Yes, people are getting worked up about something that we haven't even read the details yet. Plus I still say you look at what a marauder can do by the bottom of their talent tree with a pair of vibro swords or what a merc can do with a HBR on auto fire at the bottom of their tree, and it seems to me they're both already like smallpox to minions.

I really think the once per game mechanic, and the fact it takes the HG out of the mix for 2 rounds, will give players some pause as to when to pop this.

Yes, people are getting worked up about something that we haven't even read the details yet. Plus I still say you look at what a marauder can do by the bottom of their talent tree with a pair of vibro swords or what a merc can do with a HBR on auto fire at the bottom of their tree, and it seems to me they're both already like smallpox to minions.

I really think the once per game mechanic, and the fact it takes the HG out of the mix for 2 rounds, will give players some pause as to when to pop this.

It's unlikely that either can take out multiple 4-man squads of stormtroopers in one round. This ability might just let take out a company of them in a few rounds. Minion groups of vehicles (like almost all of the TIEs at Endor) might be subject to the ability too, but I hope not.

Everyone's getting worked up over Last Man Standing for no good reason. We haven't even seen the write-up yet. Everyone wait until we see the actual text before tripping balls.

Me, I think it's kind of cool. It's a Wave Motion Gun - very powerful, great at dealing with lots of little guys, meaningless against The Dragon, has a cool-down recharge time (or in this case, takes the player out of the action for a round) and only used once per episode. I just have to plan accordingly for it - no big deal.

***EDIT***

Just thought of this. I can think of one instance coming up in a game I just put together where having a player with this would be goddamned epic. Imagine, one lone hired gun, standing in the road, this army of forty mooks rides up. "Sorry, gentlemen - I'll have to ask you to leave" before delivering a beatdown like you wouldn't believe.

And then just imagine an Nemesis in the mix. Here's the Hired Gun, a whirling dervish of death, bodes hitting the ground left right and center - and the nemesis just grabs their sword hand mid swing and gives them That Look, the "Yeah, you know it's on now" look. That's a perfect, cinematic climax!

Man, I think I just talked myself into loving this ability.

I can't help but think of the scene in "Ip Man" where Ip versus the 10 Japanese martial artists. Although based on the description, Last Man Standing sounds like more of a last ditch effort type of action

In that light, I wouldn't mind seeing some way of having Last Man Standing reflect the hired gun being a badass because the Sith just hit the fan, rather than the hired gun walks into a room, sees a dozen enemies and just disposes of them because he can, not because he needs to.

Not to be too pedantic about it, but I believe the talent is called "Last One Standing", because obviously it can apply to a PC of any gender or type.

Yes, people are getting worked up about something that we haven't even read the details yet. Plus I still say you look at what a marauder can do by the bottom of their talent tree with a pair of vibro swords or what a merc can do with a HBR on auto fire at the bottom of their tree, and it seems to me they're both already like smallpox to minions.

I really think the once per game mechanic, and the fact it takes the HG out of the mix for 2 rounds, will give players some pause as to when to pop this.

It's unlikely that either can take out multiple 4-man squads of stormtroopers in one round. This ability might just let take out a company of them in a few rounds. Minion groups of vehicles (like almost all of the TIEs at Endor) might be subject to the ability too, but I hope not.

But they wouldn't have just one round, they'd have two, since the SA ties up the player for two rounds. That's my point. A HG with modded gear, which is to be expected with players that advanced, at the bottom of their talent trees, are going to do a great deal of damage to minions within two rounds in any event.

Yeah without seeing the actual rule it's hard to say for sure but this seems like another disappointing example of the Baysplosions! Effect, every new book has to have a new, bigger, more ultra-bad'der-mega-effect! It's sad, a solid game getting all Pathfinder'ed and cartoony.

Well, assuming it is as it looks I'll probably either not use it or have it be restricted to it's actual name: If you are the Last PC Standing you can activate it to help save the day and maybe save your friends. That kind of cinematic heroics is Star Wars-y to me but being able to do it any time you want, not so much.

Yeah without seeing the actual rule it's hard to say for sure but this seems like another disappointing example of the Baysplosions! Effect, every new book has to have a new, bigger, more ultra-bad'der-mega-effect! It's sad, a solid game getting all Pathfinder'ed and cartoony.

To be fair, the Hired Gun book has the most fighting badassery archetypes in it. It's the spike of the asswhupping bell curve. If the Colonist book comes out next, you'd be hard pressed to write up a bigger OMG! EXPLOSIONS! for the sig abilities.

I really think the once per game mechanic, and the fact it takes the HG out of the mix for 2 rounds, will give players some pause as to when to pop this.

Once per game is a bad mechanic. Some people get together once a month and play for 10 hours straight, others play for an hour with workmates every day at lunch. Some tables are pure combat and every room or hallway they enter is another set of droids to down, others may only have 1 combat per game.

This makes the ability have a wildly different power level at different tables. Or even at the same table on different days.

We assume this power was balanced against the XP it costs and the opportunity cost for the prerequisites. But was that balance assuming a table with 1 combat per session like ours, or 6 combats per session?

Either way it is bad design to use a per-game mechanic for something like this. It should have been balanced as a per-combat power or maybe a per-day mechanic.

It actually shouldn't be a power at all. It stinks of a super power from a magical super-hero game. Suddenly your character can turn into The Flash for a round and kill 50 guys. The one example I can think of for this power from the movies is Jar-Jar Binks. So yeah. Slap stick or superhero. Neither reflect the cowboy samurai flavor of the original movies.

Yeah without seeing the actual rule it's hard to say for sure but this seems like another disappointing example of the Baysplosions! Effect, every new book has to have a new, bigger, more ultra-bad'der-mega-effect! It's sad, a solid game getting all Pathfinder'ed and cartoony.

To be fair, the Hired Gun book has the most fighting badassery archetypes in it. It's the spike of the asswhupping bell curve. If the Colonist book comes out next, you'd be hard pressed to write up a bigger OMG! EXPLOSIONS! for the sig abilities.

Colonist signature: Death Star Flyby - eliminate one moon or small planet.

Yeah without seeing the actual rule it's hard to say for sure but this seems like another disappointing example of the Baysplosions! Effect, every new book has to have a new, bigger, more ultra-bad'der-mega-effect! It's sad, a solid game getting all Pathfinder'ed and cartoony.

To be fair, the Hired Gun book has the most fighting badassery archetypes in it. It's the spike of the asswhupping bell curve. If the Colonist book comes out next, you'd be hard pressed to write up a bigger OMG! EXPLOSIONS! for the sig abilities.

It's the most fighting'ist badass so far... with other splatbooks for AoR and F&D still to come out I'm not so sure what to expect.

In any case a power like this is a plot killer and every player who makes a Bounty Hunter has to get it, it would be silly not to, which means any group that has one will be affected. It's hard enough to plan for a highly experienced PC with an Auto-Fire weapon, but at least that has a possibility of Threats or a Despair, this sounds like it's an automatic effect. As I said unless its a real save the day power that requires everyone being at least critically injured if not actually down then it's too darn close to Munchkin for my tastes. Either way once per session powers remind me too much of 4ed, and that's not a good thing.

I really think the once per game mechanic, and the fact it takes the HG out of the mix for 2 rounds, will give players some pause as to when to pop this.

Once per game is a bad mechanic. Some people get together once a month and play for 10 hours straight, others play for an hour with workmates every day at lunch. Some tables are pure combat and every room or hallway they enter is another set of droids to down, others may only have 1 combat per game.

This makes the ability have a wildly different power level at different tables. Or even at the same table on different days.

We assume this power was balanced against the XP it costs and the opportunity cost for the prerequisites. But was that balance assuming a table with 1 combat per session like ours, or 6 combats per session?

Either way it is bad design to use a per-game mechanic for something like this. It should have been balanced as a per-combat power or maybe a per-day mechanic.

It actually shouldn't be a power at all. It stinks of a super power from a magical super-hero game. Suddenly your character can turn into The Flash for a round and kill 50 guys. The one example I can think of for this power from the movies is Jar-Jar Binks. So yeah. Slap stick or superhero. Neither reflect the cowboy samurai flavor of the original movies.

You seem to enjoy being a vocal minority.

It is never "once per game" it is usualy "once per session" which is considered a 4 hour period of playing for most groups (and the lead designer of this game). No one is telling anyone that such a skill should not be used twice over the course of a 10 ( really?) hour game.

Either way once per session powers remind me too much of 4ed, and that's not a good thing.

It had encounter powers and daily powers that were dependend on an encounter or a day in the game world and were not related to a session or an actual day.

Also, why is everyone falling over themselves to critique an ability they haven't even read yet? Is this a contest in making up the most unlikeable thing and then disliking it the most or something? Sour geeks of the world unit!

In any case a power like this is a plot killer

Eh, perhaps its because we have wildly different play styles or something - but I cant think of an instance in the last 10 games I ran where the ability to blow away a room full of Mooks would have killed my plot stone dead.

Eh, perhaps its because we have wildly different play styles or something - but I cant think of an instance in the last 10 games I ran where the ability to blow away a room full of Mooks would have killed my plot stone dead.

Why is it that people complaining about mechanics being overpowered are usually the ones that rely so heavily on mechanics to make their game?

Once per game is a bad mechanic. Some people get together once a month and play for 10 hours straight, others play for an hour with workmates every day at lunch. Some tables are pure combat and every room or hallway they enter is another set of droids to down, others may only have 1 combat per game.

Well, it's totally within the GM right to go "Sheesh, we've been playing a stretch. Here's some XP and recharge your One Per Game abilities. I'm gonna grab something from the kitchen." after a logical break point in the story arc.

It actually shouldn't be a power at all. It stinks of a super power from a magical super-hero game. Suddenly your character can turn into The Flash for a round and kill 50 guys. The one example I can think of for this power from the movies is Jar-Jar Binks. So yeah. Slap stick or superhero. Neither reflect the cowboy samurai flavor of the original movies.

Wait - it doesn't?

How about one Hired Gun against Four Mooks?

How about one Drunken Master against 100 mooks?

Clearly you've been watching the wrong action movies, son.

I really think the once per game mechanic, and the fact it takes the HG out of the mix for 2 rounds, will give players some pause as to when to pop this.

Once per game is a bad mechanic. Some people get together once a month and play for 10 hours straight, others play for an hour with workmates every day at lunch. Some tables are pure combat and every room or hallway they enter is another set of droids to down, others may only have 1 combat per game.

This makes the ability have a wildly different power level at different tables. Or even at the same table on different days.

We assume this power was balanced against the XP it costs and the opportunity cost for the prerequisites. But was that balance assuming a table with 1 combat per session like ours, or 6 combats per session?

Either way it is bad design to use a per-game mechanic for something like this. It should have been balanced as a per-combat power or maybe a per-day mechanic.

It actually shouldn't be a power at all. It stinks of a super power from a magical super-hero game. Suddenly your character can turn into The Flash for a round and kill 50 guys. The one example I can think of for this power from the movies is Jar-Jar Binks. So yeah. Slap stick or superhero. Neither reflect the cowboy samurai flavor of the original movies.

So dont use the SAs. Seems like a viable option.

Seriously... Let the kids play! Great examples Desslok. This whole argument reminds me of the unleashed power from the force unleashed campaign guide. Granted I didn't care for that ability but no one took it in my group anyways. There will always be players that want this kind of power. This is a great way to let them scratch that itch without ruining everything.

I really can't see this ability hurting anything. Minions are minions. Even if a rival or two are thrown in the mix so what? Since when did combat not be deadly. Plus I think it would be awesome to turn the tables on the pcs with an ability like this. Darth Maul enters and every common soldier around the heroes is dead leaving nothing but the heroes to stand alone.

The signature abilities are all about cinematics it seems and I love that.

I wonder if there will be a way for PCs to stop NPCs from using Last Standing to eliminate their allied minions or for NPC Rival and Nemesis characters to shield their allied minions from this ability. If others are not powerless to stop the carnage, the ability will be far more balanced.

I wonder if there will be a way for PCs to stop NPCs from using Last Standing to eliminate their allied minions or for NPC Rival and Nemesis characters to shield their allied minions from this ability. If others are not powerless to stop the carnage, the ability will be far more balanced.

I imagine you could flip a dark side destiny chip to hamper the PC's roll for the ability (assuming there is one anyway).

I wonder if there will be a way for PCs to stop NPCs from using Last Standing to eliminate their allied minions or for NPC Rival and Nemesis characters to shield their allied minions from this ability. If others are not powerless to stop the carnage, the ability will be far more balanced.

I imagine you could flip a dark side destiny chip to hamper the PC's roll for the ability (assuming there is one anyway).

That's a good point. I definitely imagine there being a roll for this. Probably at least a hard check, if not daunting.

I suggest we wait until we have all read the rule and then we actually discuss it.

We have left the realm of speculation quite some time ago and stepped through to the "my fantasy outweighs yours" side of the looking glass and it is not really productive.

I suggest we wait until we have all read the rule and then we actually discuss it.

We have left the realm of speculation quite some time ago and stepped through to the "my fantasy outweighs yours" side of the looking glass and it is not really productive.

I think it's fine that people discuss and speculate now. They just need to keep from getting so heated about it and realize all the facts are not currently in on the abilites.

Either way once per session powers remind me too much of 4ed, and that's not a good thing.

Well, as a player in many, many 4ed games, I can tell you that 4th had no such thing.

It had encounter powers and daily powers that were dependend on an encounter or a day in the game world and were not related to a session or an actual day.

What I meant was I never liked the once per anything mechanic, either your PC can do something or they can't. I'm fine with prerequisites (if then types), but artificial limits feel too videogamey.

How about one Hired Gun against Four Mooks?

How about one Drunken Master against 100 mooks?

Clearly you've been watching the wrong action movies, son.

I have no problem with this kind of thing, but as you may have noticed each of the scenes you've chosen are a single guy alone, no other "PCs" in the scene. The problem I have is when the Bounty Hunter with this ability is with a group of people fighting a battle designed for that group. It's a plot killer, or better a potential plot killer, because it removes the tension from the scene by letting one PC, one who is already a combat monster by this point in their career, completely eliminate a good portion of the threat without any chance of failure or setback. And you can do it once a session without any other restrictions (that we know of).

I really think the once per game mechanic, and the fact it takes the HG out of the mix for 2 rounds, will give players some pause as to when to pop this.

Once per game is a bad mechanic. Some people get together once a month and play for 10 hours straight, others play for an hour with workmates every day at lunch. Some tables are pure combat and every room or hallway they enter is another set of droids to down, others may only have 1 combat per game.

This makes the ability have a wildly different power level at different tables. Or even at the same table on different days.

We assume this power was balanced against the XP it costs and the opportunity cost for the prerequisites. But was that balance assuming a table with 1 combat per session like ours, or 6 combats per session?

Either way it is bad design to use a per-game mechanic for something like this. It should have been balanced as a per-combat power or maybe a per-day mechanic.

It actually shouldn't be a power at all. It stinks of a super power from a magical super-hero game. Suddenly your character can turn into The Flash for a round and kill 50 guys. The one example I can think of for this power from the movies is Jar-Jar Binks. So yeah. Slap stick or superhero. Neither reflect the cowboy samurai flavor of the original movies.

Imagine if you put all this constructive energy into your own ruleset! It's obvious your superior rule making abilities are sure to be a hit when you form your own company. Good luck in your venture!

I think it's fine that people discuss and speculate now.

However, we are now looking at people yelling "bad game design" before they have even read the rule. It is just too much 'nerd-ragey' for my taste.

What I meant was I never liked the once per anything mechanic, either your PC can do something or they can't. I'm fine with prerequisites (if then types), but artificial limits feel too videogamey.

I have no problem with this kind of thing, but as you may have noticed each of the scenes you've chosen are a single guy alone, no other "PCs" in the scene. The problem I have is when the Bounty Hunter with this ability is with a group of people fighting a battle designed for that group. It's a plot killer, or better a potential plot killer, because it removes the tension from the scene by letting one PC, one who is already a combat monster by this point in their career, completely eliminate a good portion of the threat without any chance of failure or setback. And you can do it once a session without any other restrictions (that we know of).