Yay I can kill 8 minions really fast. Weird the next room has 8 more minions...boo! It's a fun ability once per session, nothing more.

That's kind of my non worry about it. Honestly by the time a player can reach SA level talents they are probably in a group of similar tenured players, so are minions even all that useful to a GM? I would think most encounters are going to have to be built around rivals and nemeses to be any kind of real challenge anyway.

You've obviously not been shot at by competent minion groups. Two four-trooper minion groups of stormtroopers led by a sergeant is fairly effective. Six-man minion groups can be killer (3y2g with blaster rifles is pretty wicked).

I love how people are already looking to hose characters with this ability.

That's kind of my non worry about it. Honestly by the time a player can reach SA level talents they are probably in a group of similar tenured players, so are minions even all that useful to a GM? I would think most encounters are going to have to be built around rivals and nemeses to be any kind of real challenge anyway.

You've obviously not been shot at by competent minion groups. Two four-trooper minion groups of stormtroopers led by a sergeant is fairly effective. Six-man minion groups can be killer (3y2g with blaster rifles is pretty wicked).

Still not going to be a big deal with the once per game mechanic. I say again, non worry.

I remember this very climatic moment in SW Return of the Jedi. When the Alliance is pressed against the ropes in the battle of Endor, struggling to survive against the Imperial stormtroopers. Then Chewbacca stands up from behind the bushes, says "Sayonara baby" and with his bowcaster he annihilates the whole Imperial Army. What a great moment in the movie! was not your favourite?

Cheers,

Yepes

Yay I can kill 8 minions really fast. Weird the next room has 8 more minions...boo! It's a fun ability once per session, nothing more.

Yeah, what would a game be without a massive body count of sentient beings, right? Blood for the blood god!

I love how people are already looking to hose characters with this ability.

I love how people jump in defense of something that gives their character more power, even when it's objectively bad for the game that it exists.

That's kind of my non worry about it. Honestly by the time a player can reach SA level talents they are probably in a group of similar tenured players, so are minions even all that useful to a GM? I would think most encounters are going to have to be built around rivals and nemeses to be any kind of real challenge anyway.

You've obviously not been shot at by competent minion groups. Two four-trooper minion groups of stormtroopers led by a sergeant is fairly effective. Six-man minion groups can be killer (3y2g with blaster rifles is pretty wicked).

Still not going to be a big deal with the once per game mechanic. I say again, non worry.

Say that when playing Beyond the Rim where that one character can eliminate both five man squads of biker scouts, making the entire Imperial force a non-encounter.

I love how people are already looking to hose characters with this ability.

I love how people jump in defense of something that gives their character more power, even when it's objectively bad for the game that it exists.

Maybe its bad for your games. It doesn't make it bad for all games.

That's kind of my non worry about it. Honestly by the time a player can reach SA level talents they are probably in a group of similar tenured players, so are minions even all that useful to a GM? I would think most encounters are going to have to be built around rivals and nemeses to be any kind of real challenge anyway.

You've obviously not been shot at by competent minion groups. Two four-trooper minion groups of stormtroopers led by a sergeant is fairly effective. Six-man minion groups can be killer (3y2g with blaster rifles is pretty wicked).

Still not going to be a big deal with the once per game mechanic. I say again, non worry.

Say that when playing Beyond the Rim where that one character can eliminate both five man squads of biker scouts, making the entire Imperial force a non-encounter.

Don't buy canned adventures. Prefer to make my own.

I love how people are already looking to hose characters with this ability.

I love how people jump in defense of something that gives their character more power, even when it's objectively bad for the game that it exists.

Maybe its bad for your games. It doesn't make it bad for all games.

Agreed.

They're probably still "once per session"-type abilities, right?

It sounds great to me, a cool way to let a character have some really dramatic combat adventures.

"Last One Standing" reminds me of River Tam against the Reavers in Serenity, a very special event that can be a cool dramatic end to a combat.

That article doesn't seem to indicate what kind of roll is required to enact these, either. The Explorer signature ablities require a skill check, so I'd be surprised if these don't. That means they're once-per-session abilities that may or may not succeed.

Sounds good to me!

I know I'm not going to "rush" up the talent chart to "grab" this power and declare victory. 330 exp, assuming I don't invest in a single skill on the way up...so say 400-500ish to get there....at our rate I'll be there...in like 2018-2019 at best! I'll be almost 50 years old lol..this kind of stuff is not a big deal..the pace of them releasing books is however is a very big deal...faster and more adventures for us who have no time but plenty of income for this by comparison is a very affordable hobby.

I know I'm not going to "rush" up the talent chart to "grab" this power and declare victory. 330 exp, assuming I don't invest in a single skill on the way up...so say 400-500ish to get there....at our rate I'll be there...in like 2018-2019 at best! I'll be almost 50 years old lol..this kind of stuff is not a big deal..the pace of them releasing books is however is a very big deal...faster and more adventures for us who have no time but plenty of income for this by comparison is a very affordable hobby.

At a recommended 20 XP/sesson getting 300 XP beyond your starting 100 is 15 sessions. That is not very long at all. That also assumes a fresh character and not one that is joining an existing game or starting with seasoned characters.

I know I'm not going to "rush" up the talent chart to "grab" this power and declare victory. 330 exp, assuming I don't invest in a single skill on the way up...so say 400-500ish to get there....at our rate I'll be there...in like 2018-2019 at best! I'll be almost 50 years old lol..this kind of stuff is not a big deal..the pace of them releasing books is however is a very big deal...faster and more adventures for us who have no time but plenty of income for this by comparison is a very affordable hobby.

At a recommended 20 XP/sesson getting 300 XP beyond your starting 100 is 15 sessions. That is not very long at all. That also assumes a fresh character and not one that is joining an existing game or starting with seasoned characters.

Assuming no skill purchases and no new specialization. Also 20xp a session is a little high(time of session dependent). We play 1-2 a month at 2-4 hours per...10-20xp per. Okay so 2016..maybe. Plenty of signature abilities to discuss from now to then. Of course I don't have a hired gun...so maybe 2019 is a better estimate.

I love how people are already looking to hose characters with this ability.

I can empathise with them, though. As a player, I hate saving up and buying something only for the GM to look for ways to nerf it. But from the minimal description we've got it sounds a horrible power to me.

Any "last stand" situation just had the tension drained out of it. Any negotiation against powerful and intimidating groups just had the tension drained out of it.

And the stealth solutions don't seem any better. Reinforcements are just a way of telling the player who bought this they've wasted their points (would you have included reinforcements if they hadn't bought Last Man Standing?). Going the other way - reducing the physical conflicts in your game - doesn't just nerf one talent a Hired Gun has bought, it reduces the usefulness of most of their character. Extra rivals, nemeses, or whatever just makes these elements less special. And yes, you can ban its purchase or rewrite its effect, but this will make some players unhappy.

I don't play any Hired Guns but I don't see how this will be a fun advantage to play either. Would I have more fun testing my character in a dangerous situation or if I were asked to pass a single, vastly abstracted* skill roll?

* More than the usual rules for minion groups.

If a GM wants to have a level of tension and not let a player use last one standing right away (and the player should be able to use it eventually) a gm could lock out the players from using it by destiny points.

That's kind of my non worry about it. Honestly by the time a player can reach SA level talents they are probably in a group of similar tenured players, so are minions even all that useful to a GM? I would think most encounters are going to have to be built around rivals and nemeses to be any kind of real challenge anyway.

You've obviously not been shot at by competent minion groups. Two four-trooper minion groups of stormtroopers led by a sergeant is fairly effective. Six-man minion groups can be killer (3y2g with blaster rifles is pretty wicked).

Still not going to be a big deal with the once per game mechanic. I say again, non worry.

Say that when playing Beyond the Rim where that one character can eliminate both five man squads of biker scouts, making the entire Imperial force a non-encounter.

Beyond the Rim was written for starting adventurers. The part in the adventure refer to is towards the end of the third session and your character, by then would have had 50 experience at most if you hand XP out after each session and 25 to 30 at most if you hand out XP after each chapter. How would they be able to have acces to that talent?

I am all for looking at these things criticaly but this hardly seems like a fair represantion of its use.

Then again you have me on ignore for calling you out on this before so why do I even bother.

If a GM wants to have a level of tension and not let a player use last one standing right away (and the player should be able to use it eventually) a gm could lock out the players from using it by destiny points.

At which point the player has paid 30 points to deny the GM one destiny point. That doesn't sound like a good deal to me.

Maybe I'm griping without cause though; all we've got is a rough description, maybe the full write-up will make this an attractive addition to everyone's game.

Is this ability any worse or different than players 'going off the rails' and thinking outside the box (or sidebar) and doing something not covered in an adventure.

React and adapt without penalizing a character or player. Let the hired gun have his moment of awesome, and while he is oitbof commission for a couple of rounds the party can deal with a nemesis. If they don't, the nemesis escapes.

If a GM wants to have a level of tension and not let a player use last one standing right away (and the player should be able to use it eventually) a gm could lock out the players from using it by destiny points.

At which point the player has paid 30 points to deny the GM one destiny point. That doesn't sound like a good deal to me.

Maybe I'm griping without cause though; all we've got is a rough description, maybe the full write-up will make this an attractive addition to everyone's game.

Is this ability any worse or different than players 'going off the rails' and thinking outside the box (or sidebar) and doing something not covered in an adventure.

React and adapt without penalizing a character or player. Let the hired gun have his moment of awesome, and while he is out of commission for a couple of rounds the party can deal with a nemesis. If they don't, the nemesis escapes.

Players going off the rails is great. Last week our GM expected us to find a way to sneak out of a building crawling with enemies and smuggle our living cargo out with us. Instead of sneaking down, level-by-level, we sent one guy out of the window. He came back with an ambulance which set us up for a pretty awesome chase across the city, then another against the patrolling TIEs in orbit (and our ship was held together with duct tape at the time). The GM ribbed us for our lack of subtlety but, when pressed, admitted it had been a blast. Going off the rails is good news for everyone.

Are we going to do that next adventure? No. It'd be dull.

From what I've read of Last Man Standing, it seems like GMs will have to do a lot of previously unnecessary contortions to stop it sucking the fun out of combat. How much? How often? Nobody knows. "Any" seems too much to me at the minute.

EDIT: the "deny" bit was denying the GM a destiny point, not the player their ability. Thanks for clarifying your point though. I disagree with how it would affect the drama of whatever scene it ends up getting used in, but I understand your intention.

I know I'm not going to "rush" up the talent chart to "grab" this power and declare victory. 330 exp, assuming I don't invest in a single skill on the way up...so say 400-500ish to get there....at our rate I'll be there...in like 2018-2019 at best! I'll be almost 50 years old lol..this kind of stuff is not a big deal..the pace of them releasing books is however is a very big deal...faster and more adventures for us who have no time but plenty of income for this by comparison is a very affordable hobby.

At a recommended 20 XP/sesson getting 300 XP beyond your starting 100 is 15 sessions. That is not very long at all. That also assumes a fresh character and not one that is joining an existing game or starting with seasoned characters.

Seriously? I don't know of anyone that would forgo bumping up attributes, skills and buying other talents rather than the ones leading directly to this talent just to get an ability that can only be activated once per session no matter how much people want to say it isn't Star Wars (which is subjective) or how powerful people think it is (when we ultimately haven't even seen it yet). Any other extremes you want to take it to?

I know I'm not going to "rush" up the talent chart to "grab" this power and declare victory. 330 exp, assuming I don't invest in a single skill on the way up...so say 400-500ish to get there....at our rate I'll be there...in like 2018-2019 at best! I'll be almost 50 years old lol..this kind of stuff is not a big deal..the pace of them releasing books is however is a very big deal...faster and more adventures for us who have no time but plenty of income for this by comparison is a very affordable hobby.

At a recommended 20 XP/sesson getting 300 XP beyond your starting 100 is 15 sessions. That is not very long at all. That also assumes a fresh character and not one that is joining an existing game or starting with seasoned characters.

Seriously? I don't know of anyone that would forgo bumping up attributes, skills and buying other talents rather than the ones leading directly to this talent just to get an ability that can only be activated once per session no matter how much people want to say it isn't Star Wars (which is subjective) or how powerful people think it is (when we ultimately haven't even seen it yet). Any other extremes you want to take it to?

I think that was the point I was trying to make.

Everyone's getting worked up over Last Man Standing for no good reason. We haven't even seen the write-up yet. Everyone wait until we see the actual text before tripping balls.

Me, I think it's kind of cool. It's a Wave Motion Gun - very powerful, great at dealing with lots of little guys, meaningless against The Dragon, has a cool-down recharge time (or in this case, takes the player out of the action for a round) and only used once per episode. I just have to plan accordingly for it - no big deal.

***EDIT***

Just thought of this. I can think of one instance coming up in a game I just put together where having a player with this would be goddamned epic. Imagine, one lone hired gun, standing in the road, this army of forty mooks rides up. "Sorry, gentlemen - I'll have to ask you to leave" before delivering a beatdown like you wouldn't believe.

And then just imagine an Nemesis in the mix. Here's the Hired Gun, a whirling dervish of death, bodes hitting the ground left right and center - and the nemesis just grabs their sword hand mid swing and gives them That Look, the "Yeah, you know it's on now" look. That's a perfect, cinematic climax!

Man, I think I just talked myself into loving this ability.