7 and boost means that each of those 7 options have 3 more movement options to them... so those 7 are actually 21 options. if you have advanced sensors there is the option to move before or after so that number jumps to 42.

Not actually 42. Left Bank 1 + boost left is the same as boost left + left bank 1. Same for straight and right. bank left boost right is the same as boost left bank right. etc. So it's probably more like 34 maneuvers.

So it's probably more like 34 maneuvers.

Even then, I don't know if I'd consider it more maneuverable. Most of those options are just a very small variations. 2 forward + 1 forward is not really a big difference between 3 forward.

Plus once again you've used boost as your action something the X-Wing didn't need to do.

Even then, I don't know if I'd consider it more maneuverable. Most of those options are just a very small variations. 2 forward + 1 forward is not really a big difference between 3 forward.

2 forward + 1 forward includes the ship's base in the middle. On a small-based ship, that becomes a 4 forward. On a Large, it becomes a 5, which I'm sure you'll agree is significantly different than a 3 forward.

On a Large, it becomes a 5, which I'm sure you'll agree is significantly different than a 3 forward.

Again I like the Shuttle, and yes that does let it move farther, but trying to say that even with Engine Upgrade it's more maneuverable then a X-Wing isn't true.

Honestly if the shuttle was as good as some people in this thread are trying to make out, you'd be looking at something that is quite frankly OP'ed for the cost.

If it's better in every way at the same point value as the Firespray, something is wrong.

I have just played the Buzz-Saw Space Bus and IF you can keep it from being attacked from behind, point for point it will out shoot the Firespray.

1-1 against a Firespray, the Firespray wins. In a squad set to compliment the Bus, it is a valuable proposition.

The other beauty of the Space Bus is the fact that set up as a buzz saw, losing its action really doesn't matter. Is focus handy, yep, but a Target locked Gunner will suffice, thus, unless it buggers up your fire arc, bumping the Space Cow into your own ships doesn't really matter and bumping it into your opponents is down right useful.

Do this in a Firespray and you are limiting it considerably more.

Again, I am a huge fan of the Firespray, but the Space Bus is growing on me.

I am thinking if Jendon is worth 5 extra points to assign target locks. Buzz saw Jendon could be fun, forget ST-321 and a Weapons Eng, just hand of the lock you get back after your gunner shot, or the original FCS lock if you don't use Gunner, you get one every round from FCS anyway :-)

i think people are comparing these ships head-to-head, which isnt really how the shuttle was intended to be used. Newsflash! They r two very different ships. There are players who will always choose the Slave1 over the shuttle. Yes the shuttles movement dial is terrible - no K-Turn makes it somewhat vulnerable to attacks from behind.

Its not an easy ship to pilot and it performs much better early in the game compared to the final stages when it might be your last ship - the trick to untapping its subtle power is using optimal upgrades AND putting it in a squad with complementary ships.

The shuttle is not for everyone but neither is any ship... im not especially a fan of the Falcon as I dont find it a challenge to fly with that 360 degree arc but even the Falcon has its bad matchups and if u outfit it with less than optimal upgrades it doesnt perform nearly as well as it could.

The shuttle has a large margin for error. I remember when players first compared the Falcon to the Slave1, marveling at the raw power of pilots like Han with his 360 degree offense and tank-like defense - back then when the Slave1 was still a new ship many players tried and failed to make it work.

Hothie was one of the early advocates for Slave1 builds and he helped champion the popularity of the double Bounty Hunter squads at the time. Its hard to believe now but at the time players were still unsure how to get the best out of the Slave1 and some probably wrote it off as too expensive for what it did. I see the shuttle at a similar stage in its development. The strengths of the shuttle are there but they are less obvious than the Falcon or Slave1. In time, as players learn to use it, shuttle squads will gain more popularity just like the Slave1 did when it was new on the scene.

Straight up the two agility means that those 10 Firespray hits take a long time to whittle away at.

This is a list that I think works very well with the Space Bus better than it would with a similarly pointed Firespray. The three Ties/Int are able to use their skills in conjunction with the space bus and each other and are nimble enough to protect the space bus. Handing a target lock to any of the fighters makes them significantly better, so do you attack the space bus?

Attacking another fighter leaves the Space Bus handing off locks and using its Buzz Saw effect.

The strengths of the shuttle are there but they are less obvious than the Falcon or Slave1.

Same with the HWK-290 really.

But the point is this, IMO anyway...

The Shuttle is not intended to be a front line fighter, it should at best be able to dish out damage on par with something like the Firespray, it should not be better at it. If it is, then something went wrong in the design process.

I think if we get to a point where the Buzz Saw Shuttle is seen as a viable alternative to a Firespray in a all comers list, then that's great. But if is seen as being better then something is really wrong somewhere. Not because I dislike the shuttle, but because of what it was intended to be.

Lots of mentions of the friendly "bump" in this thread. It's an important tactic to master and doubly so for shuttle flying. It's a lot harder to Kturn behind a shuttle when it's slow moving rather than stalling... again, even more so when it has another-potentially another large base- around it.

Also, use asteroids! If you hug them but know you'll clear them there is, again, less room behind you to worry about.

On a Large, it becomes a 5, which I'm sure you'll agree is significantly different than a 3 forward.

Again I like the Shuttle, and yes that does let it move farther, but trying to say that even with Engine Upgrade it's more maneuverable then a X-Wing isn't true.

Honestly if the shuttle was as good as some people in this thread are trying to make out, you'd be looking at something that is quite frankly OP'ed for the cost.

If it's better in every way at the same point value as the Firespray, something is wrong.

It is OP for the cost. When flown well I think the shuttle offers 90% of what the firespray offers for 63% of the cost. #shuttlethuglife

i think people are comparing these ships head-to-head, which isnt really how the shuttle was intended to be used. Newsflash! They r two very different ships. There are players who will always choose the Slave1 over the shuttle. Yes the shuttles movement dial is terrible - no K-Turn makes it somewhat vulnerable to attacks from behind.

Its not an easy ship to pilot and it performs much better early in the game compared to the final stages when it might be your last ship - the trick to untapping its subtle power is using optimal upgrades AND putting it in a squad with complementary ships.

The shuttle is not for everyone but neither is any ship... im not especially a fan of the Falcon as I dont find it a challenge to fly with that 360 degree arc but even the Falcon has its bad matchups and if u outfit it with less than optimal upgrades it doesnt perform nearly as well as it could.

The shuttle has a large margin for error. I remember when players first compared the Falcon to the Slave1, marveling at the raw power of pilots like Han with his 360 degree offense and tank-like defense - back then when the Slave1 was still a new ship many players tried and failed to make it work.

Hothie was one of the early advocates for Slave1 builds and he helped champion the popularity of the double Bounty Hunter squads at the time. Its hard to believe now but at the time players were still unsure how to get the best out of the Slave1 and some probably wrote it off as too expensive for what it did. I see the shuttle at a similar stage in its development. The strengths of the shuttle are there but they are less obvious than the Falcon or Slave1. In time, as players learn to use it, shuttle squads will gain more popularity just like the Slave1 did when it was new on the scene.

This. The shuttle is in its infant stages. Although many of the squads using the shuttle as a tough long distance sniper can now do so as effectively and use the extra points on the other ships in their squad, or for an extra tie.

The strengths of the shuttle are there but they are less obvious than the Falcon or Slave1.

Same with the HWK-290 really.

But the point is this, IMO anyway...

The Shuttle is not intended to be a front line fighter, it should at best be able to dish out damage on par with something like the Firespray, it should not be better at it. If it is, then something went wrong in the design process.

I think if we get to a point where the Buzz Saw Shuttle is seen as a viable alternative to a Firespray in a all comers list, then that's great. But if is seen as being better then something is really wrong somewhere. Not because I dislike the shuttle, but because of what it was intended to be.

The thing the firespray excels at where a Shuttle will not is flying into the teeth of the enemy, taking damage, and running away firing out it's behind while evading. This is an excellent tactic and one I love. Everyone loves to kill a hurt ship. The firespray is the best hurt ship in the game. just keep letting them chase you, you don't need to kturn, you just need to evade.

These are the discussions that should be more prevalent on these forums. I already know how I would stat the tie defender and I don't care what ship will be in wave 4 until it's announced.

Lots of mentions of the friendly "bump" in this thread. It's an important tactic to master and doubly so for shuttle flying. It's a lot harder to Kturn behind a shuttle when it's slow moving rather than stalling... again, even more so when it has another-potentially another large base- around it.

Also, use asteroids! If you hug them but know you'll clear them there is, again, less room behind you to worry about.

This. Well placed asteroids are your best friend to prevent a flank.

After four pages, it seems the best conclusion we can manage is that it's not the size of your Schwartz that matters, it's how you use it. Or something to that effect.

After four pages, it seems the best conclusion we can manage is that it's not the size of your Schwartz that matters, it's how you use it. Or something to that effect.

well, to me the firespray used to occupy the spot in my lists the shuttle took over. I would use it as a long range high offense gun to crack open ships that my ties couldn't hurt. The shuttle does this cheaper allowing my other ships to have more upgrades or to just add another academy tie all together. Pointing out where each ship shines in wave three is helpful.

After four pages, it seems the best conclusion we can manage is that it's not the size of your Schwartz that matters, it's how you use it. Or something to that effect.

well, to me the firespray used to occupy the spot in my lists the shuttle took over. I would use it as a long range high offense gun to crack open ships that my ties couldn't hurt. The shuttle does this cheaper allowing my other ships to have more upgrades or to just add another academy tie all together. Pointing out where each ship shines in wave three is helpful.

What HE said.

Does a preponderance of anecdotal evidence favoring the shuttle make it objectively better?

Again, I don't think it's better. Sure you can use a chainsaw to cut things open but sometimes a machete is easier to use and get around... sometimes you can just use a circular saw. 2 different tools that work similar but not the same.

As I believe the Brown Bomber did mention. This is the first incarnation of the shuttle. Just using the items we have now. I hope for their to be other very good system upgrades, cannons, crew, mods, etc that will all add and boost the shuttles ability as a combat craft and in its support role in lists it isn't the most dominant ship.

Considering, I think it has a very bright future as it can be very good right now and has a very cheap starting price before any add ons, which is a really big bonus in its favor over say the Firespray. Though of course all ships improve with later additions, the more room you have for upgrades and the cheaper the base ship the more those upgrades open up the ships potential. In this case it does beat out the firespray for base cost and room to grow.

Just figured I'd add more food for thought.

As I believe the Brown Bomber did mention. This is the first incarnation of the shuttle. Just using the items we have now. I hope for their to be other very good system upgrades, cannons, crew, mods, etc that will all add and boost the shuttles ability as a combat craft and in its support role in lists it isn't the most dominant ship.

Considering, I think it has a very bright future as it can be very good right now and has a very cheap starting price before any add ons, which is a really big bonus in its favor over say the Firespray. Though of course all ships improve with later additions, the more room you have for upgrades and the cheaper the base ship the more those upgrades open up the ships potential. In this case it does beat out the firespray for base cost and room to grow.

Just figured I'd add more food for thought.

That's almost like saying the HWK beats out the X-Wing because it's cheap and has more room for upgrades.

As I believe the Brown Bomber did mention. This is the first incarnation of the shuttle. Just using the items we have now. I hope for their to be other very good system upgrades, cannons, crew, mods, etc that will all add and boost the shuttles ability as a combat craft and in its support role in lists it isn't the most dominant ship.

Considering, I think it has a very bright future as it can be very good right now and has a very cheap starting price before any add ons, which is a really big bonus in its favor over say the Firespray. Though of course all ships improve with later additions, the more room you have for upgrades and the cheaper the base ship the more those upgrades open up the ships potential. In this case it does beat out the firespray for base cost and room to grow.

Just figured I'd add more food for thought.

That's almost like saying the HWK beats out the X-Wing because it's cheap and has more room for upgrades.

Would you like the HWK more if you could equip it with Heavy laser cannon and advanced sensors?

I'd 'like' a lot of things more if they could equip Adv. Sensors and HLC, but this thread isn't really about what we like. If you're asking me if I think those additions would make the HWK objectively better than the X-Wing, I would still say no. There's a lot to be said for the flexibility that support craft like the HWK and shuttle bring to the table, but it's not without its cost. That cost, I maintain, is simply too high a price to permit calling the shuttle outright better than the Firespray.