Disclaimer, my Star Wars knowledge is based on: 1) the Movies, 2) The Clone Wars 3) EotE. I have read a very little on wikipedia, but don't consider that official and I don't play video games.

That said.

A change of pace is exactly what I'm hoping to see.

As for the Empire being heavy handed, so too are many real world governments. You can disagree with them without opposing them. With the Empire you need to keep your mouth shut, but that's less true on the fringes. IMO, the whole appeal to playing on the "edge of the Empire" is that you don't have to deal with them all that much if you stay out on the fringes. That doesn't mean you have to play criminals just because you're in an area with weak governmental oversight.

I was extremely disappointed that no law careers have appeared. You cannot play a Sector Ranger or such. One of the things that I thought was a core of the whole fringe thing was that actual Imperial presence was very small/lite on the fringe. Generally all that would have happened in 95% of the fringe would be the police and Rangers would have changed name patches. Murder is still murder. Slaving is still slaving. Piracy is still piracy. And unless you are threatening direct Imperial Assets, they generally won’t care if you exist at all.

Another thing to consider is the difference between an Outlaw and a Criminal in the context of setting. In SW anyone opposing the Empire is an Outlaw and they might commit criminal acts as part of that opposition, or they might be just good people caught in a bad situation and have to resort to the occasional crime, but that's not really the same thing as a Criminal who's acts are deliberate and would do them regardless of necessity or who's in charge. Some players either aren't sophisticated enough or don't care enough to see the difference. As I mentioned before Firefly is the best example of generally good people who none the less are Outlaws who are basically forced to work with Criminals to get by.

The main issue with this is ‘who is opposing the Empire?’

Most of the games I have seen to date don’t oppose the Empire. The Empire really doesn’t care if you steal from a drug dealer or some such. The local law might, but the Imperials are too busy enforcing Imperial Edicts and consolidating the Empire. The last group only became outlaws because they killed a patrol of Imperial Army that was passing by. Why? “Gasp! It’s the Empire! Shoot Shoot!” rather than “Hey. It’s Imperials. Act casual and walk past.”.

It is just like today when I walk down the street and pass a police officer. Is he stopping every pedestrian on the street? No. But if someone suddenly breaks and runs in panic when they see him or takes a pot shot at him, I can guarantee he will become interested.

Unless your PC are actively engaged in ‘bringing down the Empire” there is no reason for them to target you.

I guess I should mention that I don't play the Empire (as a whole) as being batshit-crazy-evil. Most of the Imperials are going to avoid total atrocities if another option is open to them. Tarkin was a radical, and I don't use him as a benchmark for how most of the Empire operates.

Absolutely. 99% of the Empire is just normal folks doing what normal folks do.

I was really looking forward to running a Sector Ranger campaign where the players are protecting the citizen from the criminal. Sort of like the romantic version of the US Marshall or Texas Ranger in the old west.

His job hasn’t changed at all from the days of the Republic, except now maybe some tension with overzealous member of the IOCI or ISB.

Of all the mentioned organizations the Sector Rangers are the one group that supposedly remained politics neutral and are described “the only real source of law and order in the distant regions of the galaxy”.

A major gaff and oversight not including them, especially since so much of EotE is crime based. I was hoping that since AoR was supposed to be the ‘more organized’ side of things that they might have squeezed the Rangers in there. But from what I’ve heard of, this isn’t happening.

Too bad, but unless they put out a supplement for playing Law Enforcement characters I seeing less and less of interest in the current game.

I think the reason there is no "law and order" career is because in the Fringe bounty hunters are the law and order.

There was a throw-away line in the recent Riddick movie that went something like "Humanity has spread so fast that law and order can not keep up. Hence the use of bounty hunters." or some such tidbit. Anyways, it can be used in the Star Wars universe too. The planets are so far flung and so many that law and order can not keep up. Some planets have dedicated police forces, others are lucky if they have a "sheriff". Even sector rangers can not be everywhere and they may be restricted on how far and for how long they can pursue someone. It is a big galaxy. So individuals, corporations, even governments turn to bounty hunters, especially on the Fringe. Someone breaks the law, or does something to someone with money or connections, or whatever, and a bounty is put on his head. Depending on the amount you will attract different levels of skilled hunters. At the end of the day it is usually the bounty hunter that brings them in.

Besides there is nothing stopping you from making a character using bounty hunter or hired gun or whatever and making out like a ranger or police officer or undercover ISB or whatever.

There isn't a single player in my campaign who is a criminal. We have a Bounty Hunter, a Mercenary a Twi'lek who more or less inherited a ship. Now, I'm not saying they might not eventually take on illicit jobs, but none are currently criminals, nor have they ever been.

I co-GM this game with Venthrac. The bounty hunter and my Twi'lek smuggler have had dealings with criminals, and my Twi'lek had some shady moments in his youth, but none of the PCs have found themselves on the wrong side of the law, yet.

My new game is based on a group of misfits trying to make it as bounty hunters. Some of the characters have dark backgrounds (such as the former 'legitimate' slaver that developed a conscience and quit the slaving only to find he's not much good at anything else, so he signed on with the group as a 'capture specialist'), but the theme for the game is going to be about trying to be the good guys on the right side of (most of) the law.

The crew (PC and NPC) of the ship in the campaign I'm running is the legal captain of the ship (more or less, he got it from a homicidal bounty hunter, turned him in to authorities and got to keep the hunter's ship), his 9-year-old sister, a member of the Nabat Militia from Ryloth and recently a mercenary who does not seem to have any illegal ties signed up as the security officer.

My thief has never been caught doing anything illegal. That makes it alleged criminal activity, at best! And even that is really just vicious slander.

Guess my characters a criminal, just a really rubbish one that used to steal network access for people as a dodgy job on the side.

Since joining up with the other hobo's... the people shot and killed by the humble little slicer is getting kind of 'silly'

I have noticed that many people here talk about their groups' origins and activities. The "how we stole our ship" story is very common, and many seem to be in campaigns where the central background activities of the group is illegal trade (smuggling). There's nothing wrong with this -my own group did this too - but do any of the other options get covered?

There's certainly no small amount of alternative options in the game; but I think criminal activities tend to be the most commonly adopted, because of the grittier feel of the book, and also because the Rim is a place where legal work is hard to come by, or at least profit well from.

As I said, there are a wealth of other options, but I can understand the draw-in factor of this one.

I tried - honestly I tried - to stay on the right side of the law. I'm a victim of circumstance!

EDIT: Okay, I tried not to get caught.

I've been writing up the setting to a new campaign which places the players as agents of the Empire, set to infiltrate various criminal agencies as undercover agents of sorts, to weed out connections to the Rebel Alliance, or other threats to the Empire.

So, they would be breaking the law to maintain their cover, but it would be sanctioned by the Empire.

Kind of a grey line, so I'm not sure if they're really criminals, if they're technically undercover. Your criminal justice background can probably shed more light on that than my Arts degree

No, because "evil will always triumph, because good is dumb."

I'd love to say 'yeah, sure...my group aren't criminals'...but they definitely are after last night

Our group has a member who is wanted by the Empire and another who has a bounty on his head, but they're really explorers rather than criminals.

In fact, in our most recent session, they were very resistant to a big violent encounter when many teams would be happy to go in and murder everybody. They're playing explorer characters who want to explore but aren't bloodthirsty killers. It's pretty refreshing!

No, because "evil will always triumph, because good is dumb."

I thought it was the other way 'round.

Just to be clear. I don’t believe there is anything wrong with EotE as is, or that people that enjoy playing the game as is are in any way wrong or anything.

I really like the game engine and would like to play in or run a game using it.

It is just that for me (me personally) and some of my circle of gamers, this trope has been fairly beaten to death. I was living on the edge and running from the Empire and Storm Troopers in the Millennium Falcon in 1985 with using Traveler.

Now FFG has come up with a dynamic game mechanic that will do a far better job of things than the old system we used back then, and their setting information is excellent. I just wish they took the moment to add in 1 Career + 3 Specialties for law enforcement. Yes, it is true you can always Trick-F the system to make something else kinda (round peg/square hole) work. But then why have more than one Career in the entire game anyway? Simply because there are different specializations. And to tell the truth a Sheriff or Marshall that has “gone bad” or “turned against the Empire” is a lot more appealing than a Bounty Hunter to me. Kind of like the difference between trained hunter and street thug.

Anyway. EotE is a great game and enjoyable for many people. But not so much for me. Maybe if they ever put out a Long Arm of the Law splat book adding a Law Enforcement Career with Specializations like Sector Ranger, Detective, Patrol Officer.

I tried - honestly I tried - to stay on the right side of the law. I'm a victim of circumstance!EDIT: Okay, I tried not to get caught.

As the song goes, "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time."

Just to be clear. I don’t believe there is anything wrong with EotE as is, or that people that enjoy playing the game as is are in any way wrong or anything.

I really like the game engine and would like to play in or run a game using it.

It is just that for me (me personally) and some of my circle of gamers, this trope has been fairly beaten to death. I was living on the edge and running from the Empire and Storm Troopers in the Millennium Falcon in 1985 with using Traveler.

Now FFG has come up with a dynamic game mechanic that will do a far better job of things than the old system we used back then, and their setting information is excellent. I just wish they took the moment to add in 1 Career + 3 Specialties for law enforcement. Yes, it is true you can always Trick-F the system to make something else kinda (round peg/square hole) work. But then why have more than one Career in the entire game anyway? Simply because there are different specializations. And to tell the truth a Sheriff or Marshall that has “gone bad” or “turned against the Empire” is a lot more appealing than a Bounty Hunter to me. Kind of like the difference between trained hunter and street thug.

Anyway. EotE is a great game and enjoyable for many people. But not so much for me. Maybe if they ever put out a Long Arm of the Law splat book adding a Law Enforcement Career with Specializations like Sector Ranger, Detective, Patrol Officer.

They've got existing careers to flesh out and some of those you mention dovetail nicely into the existing ones.

Sector Ranger would fit nicely into Bounty Hunter. Detective would go with Colonist well. I don't know about patrol but there could be a technical scientist for forensics possibly for the Tech career.

They've got existing careers to flesh out and some of those you mention dovetail nicely into the existing ones.

Sector Ranger would fit nicely into Bounty Hunter. Detective would go with Colonist well. I don't know about patrol but there could be a technical scientist for forensics possibly for the Tech career.

Well said, I hadn't thought of it that way. And your idea of Forensics is great. Patrol Officer was just a place holder to get the magic 3.

But as expanded specialites they woud slide right in.

Some say criminal, I say free being? man? person? Honestly the Republic mucked it all up, corrupt, bureaucratic mentally lethargic mess. Then the Empire was all 'do as I say or I'll blow your planet up!'....F that! Nevermind the Sith the true evil is the single most insidious thing ever...............taxes..............

For a LEO, the Enforcer from Dangerous Covenants works rather well.

Eh, my group falls into the 'hive of scum and villiany' category.

Our party composition:

Rodian Pilot: This guy just fell in with the wrong crowd. It all started when his brother couldn't meet his financial obligations to a Hutt for a starship loan... our pilot inherited the ship and the burden. His moral compass steers the course for the least amount of incoming blaster fire, if possible, with few other considerations.

Klaatoonian Bounty Hunter: Probably the closest thing we have to an 'upstanding citizen' in our ranks. He was adopted by a Mandalorian family somewhere early in his life, and was brought up with a code of honor. He's our heavy weapons/armor guy. Gets pulled into illegal hijinx by the rest of us, though to fulfill an honorable obligation for him we did run afoul of the Empire just a little. What's a few TIE fighters, and a few hundred thousand credits worth of damage to some frigates between friends, though?

Droid Marauder: Actively wanted by the Rebellion. Apparently one of their strikes destroyed his home after he was manumitted. The only overtly "Pro Empire" character we have, also a little bit crazy. We all carry restraining bolts, just in case. Technically a co-owner of our ship, as he invested his life savings into helping our Rodian Pilot stay solvent prior to the game starting.

Human Doctor: A brilliant physician and slicer that got himself tangled up with Black Sun in his younger days. Currently working on a scenario unfolding around his obligation, and our GM has already had him doing some not-strictly-necessary surgery on someone to smuggle an item into a high security area. His last name is Faust, so, no making bargains with him.

Human Politico: A.K.A. Tattoine Bob; he's our smooth talker. He gets what he wants, because he's pretty. He's our newest recruit, and his background is still a bit shadowed and unknown to most of us. He has pro-Rebellion leanings, and after his first payday immediately tracked down and bought a disruptor pistol though, so the guy HAS to be shady.

Kel Dor Bounty Hunter (Me): I'm our stealth specialist, sniper, and vibro-blade enthusiast. I was a low-level trigger man for a Kel Dor crime ring in the past. The cultural bias towards harsh justice has become a little warped. I try to leave the innocent out of the collateral damage, but have no compunctions about stealing from/ kneecapping/ gunning down anyone I deem involved in criminal activity. (And I don't begrudge anyone else trying the same on me as 'unjust'... just 'unwise'.) Long story short... I feel that if you get mixed up with criminals, you had it coming. Or if you shoot at me. That gets you on the list too.

We just started a second group with 3 players.

A Scout droid turned rogue with previous history as a emergency rapid response rescue bot

A female chiss Slicer (no idea on her background)

and myself, a Force-exile Marauder who wanders the galaxy attempting to piece together who mysteriously released him from slavery and inadvertently gave him a bounty on his head

We played our first adventure a day ago, and none of the characters know each other before meeting (we have yet to flesh it all out, just wanted to dive in and play).

Ended up working the GM kit mission and at the end decided our group was going to stick together and take a battered YV-560 freighter we'll re-purpose into a scout vessel (GM lowered a few stats on the ship to have it coincide with the basic starter ships).

Problem is... none of us are pilots. Between us we have 1 rank in piloting.. planetary. So we're about to go buy an R2 unit as our pilot (which i personally think will end badly at some point).

In a sense, and the point to this is that together none of us really has a 'scum and villainy' background. Each of us is a part of the galaxy yet apart from it (except maybe the slicer, but we'll see what his backstory ends up as), and I think our missions will revolve around searching out some sense or meaning (maybe when AOR hits we'll have that meaning?).

As a side note, was also just thinking that when AoR drops, what's to stop you playing undercover smugglers, infiltrate the alliance and sabotage it from within? You could EASILY fit the 'Duty' towards the Empire instead of Alliance. Or have strict Obligation to the Empire but Duty to the Alliance, effectively balancing your infiltration to keep both happy, kind of like 'Splinter Cell Double Agent' (for those who know what I mean).

In another game where we were actually playing criminals, not EotE, it eventually turned into a total clusterf*ck with PCs killing each other and murderous rampages. It was fun for a few sessions but then went south fast. We tried re-booting and the same thing happened. The problem we realised is that criminals are actually sh*tty people and if you play one and aren't really a criminal you tend to go with what you think criminals are like, and that all comes from what you see in movies and TV which are generally exaggerations on top of basically sh*tty people. As mentioned before by myself and others there is a difference between Criminals and Outlaws, and though Criminals are always Outlaws, Outlaws are not always Criminals. This distinction is important and I have no desire to run a game where the protagonists are Criminals, it's a Star Wars not Goodfellas RPG, so I made sure to hammer this home before we started our campaign.

Everyone was on board with this so it hasn't been a real issue. The few times a PC chose to do something actually Criminal I didn't say no (I'm not that kind of GM) but instead I gave them Strain (2 for the instigator and 1 for the rest of the party) as a reminder and the one time it was serious I added Obligation.

The key is to present plenty of options for the PCs to choose from that don't require Criminal actions to gain success and reward. I'm not saying that there can't be Criminal options just not have them the only option.

The other thing is before you start a campaign or if you see it starting to run off the rails is to watch the movies again (Eps IV, V, VI) and a few Firefly episodes. This I've found resets the overall tone of the group. Seriously, one day we were planning on playing I was kinda out of it so we all just had a few beers and watched some SW and Serenity. The next session was one of our best.

In another game where we were actually playing criminals, --snip--

Excellent post. You went right to the heart of the matter. Well said.

Thanks SSand. I expect Force & Destiny will need this kind of distinction between Lightside and Darkside for Jedi and other Force users as well, and a clear understanding of the heroic setting. Plus a judicious use of carrot and stick to keep Jedi from going all Murder Hobo...