Specifically the Lu Chen R. Isn't it true that any foundation in the card pool defaults to "move to the staging area" when it is cleared, and the only times the foundations do not move to the staging area is when they are played as blocks and when an ability explicitly states to discard them (vis a vis Taking The Bait). Or is this ruling changed in the new TR?
tl;dr isn't the Lu Chen R superfluous because it would go to the staging area anyway?
im pretty sure its only any foundation played as a form moves down to your staging area ready.
Ziephnir said:
im pretty sure its only any foundation played as a form moves down to your staging area ready.
*Stamp*
What about foundations "added to the card pool" by Ivy-5's Form? It's been ruled that you can drop any foundation, asset or even character to your staging area after your opponent's turn ends (because Ivy's form leaves the card in the pool until the end of their turn)
And what of A Powerful Offer? Vast Resources?
I mean, shoot, I could argue that "effects expire at the end of the turn," so foundations that were not cleared in the End Phase of the turn they were played as Forms (Methodical Fighter) must be discarded, since they have forgotten that they were played as Forms.
Wafflecopter said:
What about foundations "added to the card pool" by Ivy-5's Form? It's been ruled that you can drop any foundation, asset or even character to your staging area after your opponent's turn ends (because Ivy's form leaves the card in the pool until the end of their turn)
And what of A Powerful Offer? Vast Resources?
I mean, shoot, I could argue that "effects expire at the end of the turn," so foundations that were not cleared in the End Phase of the turn they were played as Forms (Methodical Fighter) must be discarded, since they have forgotten that they were played as Forms.
In the immortal words of Arnold from Diff'rent Strokes:
What'choo talkin' 'bout, Wafflecopter?
A Powerful Offer and Vast Resources both allow you to play a foundation on your opponents turn, outside of the normal window.
Now... to stop and quote from the upcoming game rules:
9.0 The End Phase
During this phase both players clear any cards played during the current turn from their respective card pools.
9.1 The player whose turn it is will clear all cards from their card pool first.
9.1.1 Their opponent will then clear all of the cards from their card pool.
9.2 When clearing their card pool, a player starts with the card furthest to the right of their
card pool, and works their way back one by one until all cards are removed from their card
pool.
9.3 Any card played as a block will be placed in the discard pile.
9.4 Any face down card in the card pool will be placed in the discard pile.
9.5 Any action card will be placed in the discard pile.
9.6 Any asset will be moved to the staging area.
9.7 Any foundation that was played will be moved to the staging area.
9.8 Any attack is placed in the discard pile
9.8.1 If the attack has generated a vitality loss of one or more to the opponent during the damage step, it may instead be placed in the momentum.
9.8.1.1 When a player is placing a card in their momentum, they may choose where in their momentum the card goes.
9.9 If the card is a version of the character card you are playing it is moved to the staging area.
9.9.1 If the card is a character card with a name different then the one being played, it is placed in the discard pile.
9.10 Once both players card pools are cleared and all effects have been resolved, it becomes the opposing players ready phase. (See 7.0 The Ready Phase)
~~~
Pillar of Heaven does not neatly fit into any of the above. It was add into your card pool as a response.
A Powerful Offer and Vast Resources both state to play a Foundation, both break the normal game state by allowing you to play a form when the card proscribes.
~~~~
Can this be clarified further? Certainly. Thanks for bringing this to our attention.
I fail hard at getting the quote button to work right, so I put extra line breaks in your post where I would be responding.I fail hard at getting the quote button to work right, so I put extra line breaks in your post where I would be responding.
Antigoth said:
First... Ivy 5 says add a card facedown. Face down is face down. Face down is not a foundation.
...
9.7 Any foundation will be moved to the staging area.
...
A Powerful Offer and Vast Resources both state to play a Foundation.
Playing a foundation is a form.
8.0.1.1 Foundations, Attacks, Assets, and Characters are all cards you can normally play on your turn as a form. Actions cards can be played as a form only if the have an (F) ability
printed on them.
A Powerful Offer and Vast Resources both break the normal game state by allowing you to play a form when the card proscribes.
...On the topic of Ivy-5: "F Commit: Add 1 random face down card from momentum to your card pool face up." Reading, FUNdamental, etc 
I strongly disagree with your interpretation of the rules regarding playing foundations as forms when it is not your turn. A New Low and Chun-Li-9 have extraneous wording unlike any other cards in the game? On the topic of Chun-Li-9, if I use A Powerful Offer during her attack and then Vast Resources during her End Phase, she can perform her R during her own turn? Does Chun Li-3 risk Chun Li-9's React if CL3 uses her R to play a foundation after playing a single attack as a form?
Section 8.0.1.1 only prescribes when a card may normally be played; it does not create a restriction or statement to the effect of, "All foundations are played as forms." I do not see anywhere that the TR agrees with the statement I underlined; A Powerful Offer operates by going directly to the Golden Rule and playing (making a control check, adding to card pool) a foundation. The foundation is normally played on your turn as a form = playing it abnormally does not necessitate a form.
Finally, Section 9.7 makes no mention whatsoever of discarding foundations that were not played as forms. I see no precedent nor reason for discarding a foundation, but a blind attempt to make sense of an extraneous ability on a card.
Thanks for the quick response btw 
Wafflecopter said:
I strongly disagree with your interpretation of the rules regarding playing foundations as forms when it is not your opportunity to play a form. A New Low and Chun-Li-9 have extraneous wording unlike any other cards in the game? On the topic of Chun-Li-9, if I use A Powerful Offer during her attack and then Vast Resources during her End Phase, she can perform her R during her own turn?
No. Because her ability states
R: After your opponent's second form during their turn resolves...
Playing forms on her turn, is on her turn. Not on her opponents turn.
I'll withhold resonding to the remainder of your comment per your request finish your statement later.
Wafflecopter said:
Section 8.0.1.1 only prescribes when a card may normally be played; it does not create a restriction or statement to the effect of, "All foundations are played as forms." I do not see anywhere that the TR agrees with the statement I underlined; A Powerful Offer operates by going directly to the Golden Rule and playing (making a control check, adding to card pool) a foundation. The foundation is normally played on your turn as a form = playing it abnormally does not necessitate a form.
Finally, Section 9.7 makes no mention whatsoever of discarding foundations that were not played as forms. I see no precedent nor reason for discarding a foundation, but a blind attempt to make sense of an extraneous ability on a card.
Thanks for the quick response btw
When you are playing Pillar of Heaven's response, you are playing a triggered ability on a card in your staging area. You are not playing it into your card pool. You are adding it. See the specific card text as part of the R's cost.
The Pillar of Heaven is a new card effect outside of the normal game state as we have known it for the last three years.
As for precedent, show me another card that has:
R Add this card to your card pool:
New card, new card effect, new situation. When you play a response like Absurd Strength to your card pool as a response, you discard it at the end of the turn right?
Show me another response card played to your card pool that goes to your staging area at the end of the turn.
Section 9 details that everything outside of Assets and Foundations (normally played as forms) are discarded. Pillar of Heaven is a response ability.
On Chun Li-9 -- Touché! It's still extremely strange -- my opponent activates Vast Resources, and I can react with Order and Law after they pass the control check? What would happen if Guile-6 activates off of one card played via Powerful Offer and hits the control value of every foundation remaining in my hand while there is another Powerful Offer waiting to be resolved?
Antigoth said:
Section 9 details that everything outside of Assets and Foundations (normally played as forms) are discarded. Pillar of Heaven is a response ability.
Hammer is a terrible example, because it is not a foundation and could never go to the staging area under normal circumstances anyway.
Antigoth said:
R Add this card to your card pool:
Ivy-5 represents an example where adding a card to the card pool is performed without playing it; Taking The Bait and Feelings of Friendship do the same things as well and included text that specifically discards them during the End Phase. The fact that they are not response abilities is irrelevant; the card is placed into the card pool (without control check, being "played", or anything to that extent) and at the end of the turn is added to the Staging Area per the rules for clearing foundations from the card pool.
Wafflecopter said:
No... because I miss worded my response earlier, and have fixed it. My apologies for the confusion.
Wafflecopter said:
What would happen if Guile-6 activates off of one card played via Powerful Offer and hits the control value of every foundation remaining in my hand while there is another Powerful Offer waiting to be resolved?
To quote the band Prozzak - Sucks to be you.
Go read the text on Guile 6 - The Control of the next card played cannot match this control.
You're still playing the card via Powerful Offer. It simply says no control check required. There is no confusion here.
Wafflecopter said:
As a heads up, at this point we are issuing an official rulings reversal - any foundation that is not played into the card pool will be discarded at the end of the turn. So Ivy-5's face-up card will simply be discarded when the card pool clears.
Yeah, in the Guile example the card just isn't played, no real issue. It's just a more involved case of, say, "What happens if I activate Lord of the Makai while Mortal Strike is active?"
As for Ivy, I see how it's still being added as part of the resolution of a Form, but it's never played, and the foundation itself has no direct bearing on the Form -- it's just a card, and it has no special conditions attached, it's simply stuck in the pool and allowed to clear like normal at the end of the turn. Couldn't these cards just recieve an errata to give them the "This card is discarded at the end of the turn" text rather than making this (IMHO) extremely strange special-circumstance ruling about the inferiority of non-Form based foundation-adding? And here I thought Signor Hata was going to iron out every wrinkle in the rules, and unify quantum mechanics and general relativity too.
As for the new rules element...
:3
<sorry for the squirrelling>
Waffle,
The rules team and James have discussed the issue, and as it stands, officially as of this moment -
If a foundation is played into the cardpool it goes to the staging area afterwards.
If it was added per a triggered effect, it gets discarded when the card pool is cleared.
So now, if I form w/ Taking the bait, and you cancel the form, taking the bait gets discarded at the end of turn?
That's an awful lot of nerfing jsut to make one character only ability seem like it's actually useful.
