Can the crimson guard take Mechatendrites ?

Do they gain the same Mechanicus Implants trait as Tech-priests? If not, I'd say they don't have the necessary hardware to mount and control a mechadendrite.

They start with Mechanicus Implants; so, yes.

Does that include the cyber-mantle and potentia coil?

Electro-Graft, Electoo Inductors, Respirator Unit, Cyber-Mantle, Potentia Coil and Crenial Circuitry are listed as the Mechanicus Implants.

And Mechandrite Use (any) is in their shopping list.

Is it just me, or are Crimson Guard stupidly powerful?

Is it just me, or are Crimson Guard stupidly powerful?

They are.

As a GM i would probably say NO to Crimson Guard having mechadendrites, for fluff and for balance. Crimson Guard are Skitarii (and use the Guardsman career) and are not full Tech-Priests. Only full Tech-Priests have the privilege to install full mechadendrites, being consecrated Priests of Mars.

The fluff text say they began as tech-priests-turned-warriors. Seems the lines are blurred somewhat here. So there is no real fluff reason to ban them from using dendrites. Balance reasons? I dunno...if you think it will make a difference.

I feel like Crimson Guard don't make sense as an alternate starting rank. Shouldn't they be a higher-level alt rank, like Black Priests or Mechanicus Secutors? If they are Tech-priests turned warriors, how can a starting DH character (not even a fully ordained Tech-priest) be a member of the Crimson Guard?

It's possible that this can be explained with the transition from Black Industries to FFG. The Core Rulebook was originally written by BI, and if you remember the Inquisitor's Handbook, Battle Sisters in Dark Heresy used to start as Novices, too. Who knows how Tech-Priests would have worked out if it had been FFG from the beginning?

(yes, DH2 might allow a guess or two, but as the 2nd Edition of the game relies on less strongly defined combinations of Origins and Roles rather than specific Archetypes, a direct comparison may be impossible)

Current Crimson Guard are recruited, outfitted and vetted according to new standards. The Lathe Worlds has lots of fluff on it.

I thought the intent was for them to be elite Skitarii. For super-martial Tech-Priests, you already had Secutors from IHB.

You mean the same book that already had Battle Sisters, too?

Like I said elsewhere, I think the BoM Sisters are designed for an Ecclesiarchy-themed (or Ecclesiarchy-RUN) campaign, like the Crimson Guard are designed for a Mechanicus-themed campaign.

And the BoJ Arbites for an Arbites campaign?

Nah, IH Sisters work perfectly for an Ecclesiarchy-themed campaign. Even better, since they include the Novitiate. Same goes for Core Arbites, etc. Besides, BoM, BoJ and I'm sure LW too are still very much focused on the Inquisition, and an inclusion of these characters into a group of Acolytes, rather than stronger support for non-Inquisitorial campaigns.

In my opinion it's really just a different design approach by two different studios, not an intent with a different theme in mind. This also becomes more apparent if you compare various pieces of equipment between all books published under the Black Industries label and FFG.

tl;dr: different people will have different ideas. This goes for writers and game designers just as much as it goes for the gamers.

Doesn't BoM state specifically that the Battle Sister is for an Ecclesiarchy-themed campaign? I'm pretty sure it does somewhere.

I'd have to re-read it to be sure, but the only thing that springs to mind was a textbox with some weird/lame attempt to justify both the IH and the BoM version of the Battle Sister to exist simultaneously rather than just presenting the latter as an update, and the explanation it provided was that the BoM version was representative of a "real" Sister Militant whereas the IH version was a more general version like you'd find them as guards in Non-Militant Convents or something like that.

Basically, an explanation wrought from the rules background, where the IH Sisters all shared a common advancement scheme for the Novitiate (like in GW's own Sororitas background), whereas BoM represents the different paths of the Sororitas as having very little in common (stuff like the Hospitaller being a modified Adept, iirc).

It sounds like you might be referring to that?

The book would support Ecclesiarchy- themed campaigns with stuff like a special Cell Doctrine, but it was all still very much the Inquisition.

I've played in mostly Ordo Xenos campaigns; seen a BoM-Sister played in one and played one myself in another.

Really it's a shame there's no dedicated Ordo Xenos book. I guess FFG figured Deathwatch covers that well enough, but it's disappointing, though I admit I have no idea what kind of content could/should go in it. Probably also because Ordo Xenos is sort of "run of the mill" Inquisition, and don't have weird mortal groups like the Sororitas (Hereticus) and all the crazy things Malleus gets.

One of the reasons I'm not fond of FFG's version of the Deathwatch having split off from the Inquisition. In Codex fluff, it's the Ordo Xenos' "weird mortal group", so it would have been an ideal opportunity for mixing characters from them, like in GW's own Inquisitor game.

That being said .. technically, there's nothing preventing anyone, including FFG, from coming up with a new sub-group of this Ordo. With the Deathwatch no longer being its Chamber Militant, the studio could fill the void with a different group that operates exactly like the DW used to in GW's fluff. Just have them all Storm Troopers or something like that.

They've invented stuff like the "Agents of Reliquary 26" ... sure they could pull off something similar for the Ordo Xenos. Just have them look at the X-Files for inspiration rather than Warehouse 13.

Is that "Deathwatch is no longer Ordo Xenos Chamber Militant" a thing? I don't believe it was presented that way in Deathwatch, with the Chamber of Vigilance being headed by an Inquisitor and all. If so, I've completely ignored it for my DW game. The players may not like all the Inquisitors but they know and (generally) respect the chain of command.

Yeah, it says so in the DW Core Rulebook on page 305 ("Origins of the Deathwatch") - in this RPG, it is more like an alliance kind of thing, mentioning that "the Ordo Xenos and the Deathwatch are equals" and how "neither party is subject to the command of the other."

We've ignored that for our own campaign as well, but judging from the forum threads from back when DW was new, I remember a lot of people actually preferring it that way because this way they "wouldn't have to take orders from some puny human Inquisitor".

I suppose this shift in public perception* was bound to happen, what with the ongoing hype about the "Immortal Gods of War" propagated by some novels. FFG just embraced it, catering to what seems to be the majority. To me, it makes for a poorer setting, but that's just due to my own preferences regarding style and atmosphere (realism vs fantasy), hence my occasional nagging.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who likes the "original Deathwatch", though. The chain of command you mentioned allows for so much more interesting RP.

*: referring to the increasing gap between Astartes and Non-Marines ... it's deliciously ironic how so many players seem to replicate much of the bias that led to the Horus Heresy

I had a player's Space Marine punch an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor in the face one time. There were not-terrible reasons for it. Even the Inquisitor felt bad about the situation that caused it. (In hindsight I should have tested his Rosarius but I forgot, haha). At the same time he's not going to allow that insult to stand. In the immediate aftermath, he told a Watch-Captain "I want him beheaded, when it's not going to cause a planet to fall to Tyranids if he's not there." The character was subsequently denied the right to bear arms on a Deathwatch ship for the duration of voyage and was confined to quarters until the next drop.

They haven't really been back at Erioch much since then, and that particular Inquisitor had parted ways with them at Karlack, but there's a penance quest in that Space Marine's future.

FWIW every other Astarte in the party was aghast and either drew down on the offending Marine or physically restrained him.

Since Astartes are not really parts of the Imperial structure, it makes sense.

Same for Gray Knights.

Since Astartes are not really parts of the Imperial structure, it makes sense.

Same for Gray Knights.

It makes sense for the kind of independence they considered necessary in an RPG environment for whatever reason. Nobody complained when the TT fluff was "the Grey Knights basically are on call to Ordo Malleus but also do their own thing sometime as needs dictate." Ditto with Hereticus/Sororitas and Xenos/Deathwatch.

Also in 6e, the Astartes are under the Administratum. Another thing I have solidly ignored.