Had a weird situation materialize earlier tonight...

The Warrior's ability says: You may roll two dice in battle and use the higher attack roll to determine your attack score.

Goblin Trapsmith card says: You must roll 1 extra die for your attack roll and use the lowest result.

(emphases mine)

How do these cards interact? I'm assuming the Trapsmith basically cancels the Warrior's ability?

Starry Vere said:

Just apply them in sequence. First roll 2 dice and choose the highest result, then roll an extra die and compare. Use the lowest result between the first 2 dice and the 3rd die to determine the attack score.

(post deleted)

Delete post button would be nice.

Interesting. I guess that makes sense -- thanks!

The_Warlock said:

That seems odd to me. The thought of rolling for combat, then rolling again for the Trapsmith's part of the warrior's roll seems out of sync with the nature of Talisman combat. If that's the case, then even on the first choice of two by the warrior, he'd have to add a die (it is an attack roll) and would roll 3 at once. The question then is which of the 3 dice must be chosen.

And if rolled separately, how would fate play into that? I mean, you can't assess how your third die will read when only the first two are cast...

We play it where the warrior rolls either 2 (always) or 3 dice (never) and has to choose the lowest. The logic is fairly simple. The warrior's statement is merely superior in nature, but the Trapsmith's is both additive and superlative. Low est beats High er in terms of linguistic competitive significance.

This is how I initially rationalized it, but the Warlock's suggestion allows the Warrior's special ability to mitigate that of the Trapsmith to at least some small degree. Honestly, I'm not sure what to think. Hopefully this will be addressed in the official FAQ.

Starry Vere said:

If the Warrior has to fight the Goblin Trapsmith, he must roll 2 dice for his attack roll and use the lowest. He does not roll 3 dice! The effect of the Goblin Trapsmith overrides the Warrior's Special Ability (Can V. Cannot - rulebook).

Ell.

talismanamsilat said:

I agree that "cannot" overrides "may," except that the trapsmith doesn't say cannot. It says you must roll 1 extra die. Whether you were rolling one die or two, an "extra" die simply adds one. They are in now way mutually exclusive. Normal characters roll 1 die and must add a second. The Warrior may roll 1 or 2, and must roll a second or third die as "extra," specifically as the Trapsmith says. The thing is, however many he rolls, he has to take the lowest, so he wouldn't want to roll 3 dice and take the lowest unless he's an idiot.

I'd agree fully if the Trapsmith said you must roll 2 dice in battle that the warrior couldn't roll 3. It simply doesn't say that. It says roll an extra die. The Warrior rolls one or two dice, and if you add 1, that makes 2 or 3 dice. I don't see how it's an issue of either/or.

My idea:

1) You may roll 2 dice and take higher result (Warrior's ability)

2) Next, roll an extra die and take lower result (higher result from step 1 and extra die's result) (Goblin's requirement)

talismanamsilat said:

talismanamsilat said:

Paragraph "Can Vs. Cannot" doesn't solve the problem as it is written, and it doesn't solve most problems. librarycharlie is right: Goblin Trapsmith says "you must roll 1 extra die for your attack roll and use the lowest result". I gave an answer which seemed logical to me. Roll 2 dice, choose the highest, roll another die, choose the lowest between new result and then roll for the Trapsmith. If you want to spend Fate, you still have two die rolls (the first lowest one is cancelled) and you will obviously re-roll the lowest one.

Example: Warrior rolls for his attack and scores 4 and 3. Chooses to keep 4. Rolls a third die according to Trapsmith's AC, scores a 2 and this should be his attack score. Goblin Trapsmith rolls a 6. If the Warrior has Strength 4 and no bonuses, he would lose the combat, but since he wants to spend his only Fate token he re-rolls the die that scored 2 and gets a 4 instead. His final attack score is 4 (the 3 is not taken into consideration anymore).

This doesn't seem out of sync to me, nor it is difficult to handle. Please notice that I have not introduced additional rules or interpretations, I've only played it straight. But if you think that a Warrior should have no advantages against the Trapsmith that's fine, since it has some thematical sense.

It's good to know how this works out.

Can vs cannot

Bad luck for the warrior then. He can't use his ability now

talismanamsilat said:

Well, we can discuss if we want for houseruling it but this is The Official Rule seem hehe