A friend and I were wondering how the mechanics of infighting played out. He was trying to justify that we could use the card to get two kills from Legolas' attack and gain 4x progress tokens. I wasn't totally convinced. Here's his logic:

Legolas has some attachments that beef his attack up to 5. Two Creatures are revealed from the Encounter deck: Monster 1 with Armor 1, Health 2, the Monster 2 with Armor 2, Health 3. Thalin is questing, reducing their health to 1 and 2 respectively.

After the monsters attack, Legolas attacks and places 3 damage on Monster 1. Infighting is then immediately played, and the overflow damage currently assigned to that creature is moved off of it and onto Monster 2, killing him as well. Thus the damage has been sourced from Legolas and moved to kill a second opponent.

My thoughts on this are once the enemy exceeds it's health it is immediately removed from the board, so there wouldn't be any enemy to play infighting on. Not to mention the fact that the second monster died as a result of the infighting card being played. Even if this were to work, the source of the damage would then be irrelevant, and we would only get 2 progress tokens.

The way I see it, if there's something that you're inferring to be correct and in your favor in LOTR:LCG, you're wrong. If there's ever any sort of muddied water, take the worst approach, because that's likely how it was intended. Nothing in this game is supposed to break your way... and that's precisely why it's so fun!

Your interpretation is correct. The placement of damage on the enemy as a result of Legolas' attack and its destruction are essentially simultaneous, with no action window in between to play Infighting. And even if this were somehow possible, Legolas would only get credit for the initial one, as the second one is destroyed by Infighting, not Legolas.

Whoa - wait. So Legolas earns 2 progress for each attack that destroys an enemy?

His card says: "an attack that destroys an enemy," I didn't take that as "each."

If you used Rain of Arrows and then finished them all off, this would seem like too much. (or is that just an Event?).

During the attack phase, could he attack, ready with via an Event, then attack another, earning 4?

Thoughts?

I'm pretty sure that this trick with Infighting is not allowed. The key is that infighting is an Action and the rules state "Any time one of these cards has 0 hit points, it is immediately defeated". There is no action window in this situation. Infighting would need to state "Response" After damage has been assigned but before an enemy is removed from play..." in order for this to work.

Whoa - wait. So Legolas earns 2 progress for each attack that destroys an enemy?

His card says: "an attack that destroys an enemy," I didn't take that as "each."

If you used Rain of Arrows and then finished them all off, this would seem like too much. (or is that just an Event?).

During the attack phase, could he attack, ready with via an Event, then attack another, earning 4?

Thoughts?

correct - kind of.

Legolas gets the 2 progress for each enemy *he* kills (note: this can be in conjunction with other heroes/allies - he doesn't have to kill it alone).

so, if Legolas has Unexpected Courage on him, and managed to kill 2 enemies, you get four progress! nothing on Legolas' card limits his ability to "once per round"!

The Rain of Arrows thing doesn't work, however.

Whoa - wait. So Legolas earns 2 progress for each attack that destroys an enemy?

His card says: "an attack that destroys an enemy," I didn't take that as "each."

If you used Rain of Arrows and then finished them all off, this would seem like too much. (or is that just an Event?).

During the attack phase, could he attack, ready with via an Event, then attack another, earning 4?

Thoughts?

Sorry buddy, no joy. I looked long and hard at that combo, but there's simply no way around it. Rain of Arrows requires you to exhaust a character to deal the damage, NOT Attack each enemy engaged with that player. Since Legolas would not actually be attacking, he would not benefit from any of the kills. As far as multi-attacks, go if you used unexpected courage and he finished off something else, you absolutely would get double credit from him.

Thanatopsis, I think you described it best as to why you can't. Thanks!

Anyhow, Legolas just became more awesome to me.

We got twelve progress with Legolas the other day with Path of Need. It was epic.

We got twelve progress with Legolas the other day with Path of Need. It was epic.

So if Path of Need is in effect, as long as there is enough attack strength to finish off an engaged enemy, Legolas can get credit for every enemy that is taken out that combat phase?

We got twelve progress with Legolas the other day with Path of Need. It was epic.

So if Path of Need is in effect, as long as there is enough attack strength to finish off an engaged enemy, Legolas can get credit for every enemy that is taken out that combat phase?

yes. again, his card doesn't limit his ability to "once per round/phase" so the ability can go off as often as he participates in an attack that kills an enemy (you can choose to use his ability, or not, as it's a response, not a forced effect - there are times you don't want to trigger legolas' ability)!

basically, if a card doesn't prohibit something (and the rules don't either), then it's legal!

We got twelve progress with Legolas the other day with Path of Need. It was epic.

Wait... But how would you get 12 progress tokens? Wouldn't the first one or two attacks finish off the location that Path of Need was attached to, therefore ending it's effect? And then Legolas would be forced to exhaust?

Maybe it was attached to everyone's favorite location, Impassable Bog:

Or maybe they got legitimate use out of Ravenhill Scouts and ally-reading effects, hah!

Sorry I should have said, it was that awful one from Nightmare Dol Guldur, Dungeon labyrinth. It gains quest points at the end of each round. Bear in mind, when the active location is cleared Legolas will continue to put progress onto the quest card. (Not in a single instance - if there is one left over after the location it is wasted, but the next two will.) So he will get one more attack after the location is cleared as he didn't exhaust to kill the previous enemy.

Also bear in mind, Legolas doesn't have to kill each on his own. He can just participate with other characters and hit every enemy engaged with every player. Path of Need is a godsend for Nightmare.

And like Dain Ironfoot said, you don't have to activate Legolas' ability if you just want to have a clean slate, enemy wise. If you have a defender with high Defense and Burning Brand it also works wonders with Path of Need.

Bear in mind, when the active location is cleared Legolas will continue to put progress onto the quest card. (Not in a single instance - if there is one left over after the location it is wasted, but the next two will.)

If you clear the active location with 1 of Legolas' tokens, that remaining 1 progress token would just go onto the quest card, wouldn't it? Just like any progress tokens gained through regular questing.

Sorry GrandSpleen, you are quite right. I was thinking about the rule that doesn't allow progress to carry over from quest card to quest card.

Haha. Nice. Well, I guess I've kind of derailed this thread by now... : /

Playing an intense scenario, on the last stage, right when you notice you've been playing with two Bofurs the whole time.

lmao. love this!

So now my dream combo is Path of Need/Thror's Map. My hope is to get Path of Need out in an early round and use Thror's Map to kick the location and PoN back to the staging area. In subsequent rounds, as long as I quest for enough to get past the active location, I should be able to travel to the PoN location, never have to exhaust heroes during the combat phase and rinse and repeat using Thror's Map to return PoN to the staging area.

Can I do this or am I missing something?

I am playing solo four-handed games, so the likelihood of this combo actually happening is a little more realistic than playing with fewer hands. The combo would of course be dependent upon always having a location in the staging area to swap with, which I find is usually the case.

I am playing solo four-handed games, so...

Wow. Just wow.

So now my dream combo is Path of Need/Thror's Map. My hope is to get Path of Need out in an early round and use Thror's Map to kick the location and PoN back to the staging area. In subsequent rounds, as long as I quest for enough to get past the active location, I should be able to travel to the PoN location, never have to exhaust heroes during the combat phase and rinse and repeat using Thror's Map to return PoN to the staging area.

Can I do this or am I missing something?

I am playing solo four-handed games, so the likelihood of this combo actually happening is a little more realistic than playing with fewer hands. The combo would of course be dependent upon always having a location in the staging area to swap with, which I find is usually the case.

The tricky part is that the errata to Thror's Map restricts it to a travel action. So you can move the PoN location to the active location spot for combat, but then it will be there for next turn's questing, which means it will be explored. You could carefully quest so that you don't clear it, but then you'll never make progress on the quest. West Road Traveller and/or Strider's Path could work better for this purpose, as long as there's another location in the staging area.

Ugh, I need to review errata more often. Thanks for pointing that out to me. Well at least I have a new found respect for West Road Traveller!

Strider's Path is the replacement of Thror's map errated:

But you can only use once, not always as thor's map. But if you have Need of Path through 1 round entire (questing without exhaust and after using Strider's Path with the next location -you must get lucky here, but also with Trhor map before errata at the same situation-, and explore the location and after travel to the Need Path attached location..., you defend and attack all..., so if you do only one this all the round along you sure win the game).

But also, you can play Second Breakfast or Hammersmith if you loss Path of Need.

The first dificult is get the card. I would include Gandalfs, sneaks attacks and... Word of Command!

You. could also throw an Elf Stone onto the location with PoN, resulting in one progress token more to use PoN's effect and granting a bonus when it's explored, so that it's not ALL that bad when you lose PoN.

This combo sounds fun but has to many moving parts. I am not sure it would be very good in a practical setting.

1 copy needing a fetch (if you plan to rely on it for deck functionality), fetch needing a Wizard + Word of Command or Master of the Forge for a slower solution. 2/1 say 6/3 slots in the deck. ...And that is just for the fetch... then you need attchment itself, and the swap spells... traveler, striders path... another 6 slots....

Seams very expensive... the combo would have to really really work.

Ugh, I need to review errata more often. Thanks for pointing that out to me. Well at least I have a new found respect for West Road Traveller!

2drop / 2 will + Location Control... yeah that card is totally underrated!

I have one deck named 'Needway' built around the Path of Need card. And yes, 2 of 3 games i can't get the card (and all the combo). But other 2 games, yes. So it is not so dificult...

Heroes:

Aragorn lore · Beravor · Théodred.

Beravor to draw cards, Théodred to get resources and leadership sphere (Path of Need is leadership), and Aragorn lore (word of command, Strider's Path...are lore)

My mulligan is about: Broken Sword! Aragorn gains leadership sphere, and my deck becomes a good quester deck (also, Celebrian Stone is included here). In the second round i can play it (thanks to Théodred). Also, in the second round i can play Stewards of Gondor (Aragorn can yet pay for leadership).

Beravor, Master of Forge, Word of Command, Daeron's Runes (and...Peace and Thought!), now: Mithrandil Counsil... to get cards and search for Path of Need.

Cards that help to keep Path of Need in game: Strider's Path, Thrors Map (for example, if you use Strider's Path and you dont explore the new location active), Ravenhill Scout (wow, sure?, jaja), and: Hammersmith and Second Breakfast (if you explore the attachment location, to return to get).

Total 36 cards (counting sneak-gandalf). Other 14 cards, you can chose as you want. So i think it is a very good deck!

If you use Beravor 2 times, i think you can play very well now (you will get other cards to draw more, and use it). The most dificult is Peace and Thourght, because you loss, we can say, one round, and force friends to play hard this round.