Yes, that's right, I just called you out!

For those of you who don't know, SableGryphon is one of my favorite listbuilders on this forum. He's the mastermind behind the following two fleets:

3x Outer Rim Smuggler

+ Anti-Pursuit Lasers

+ Intelligence Agent

+ Navigator

[33 Each]

and

2x Omicron Group Pilot

+ Engine Upgrade

+ Fire-Control Systems

+ Gunner

[32 Each]

Captain Yorr

+ Same as the OGPs

+ Intelligence Agent

[36]

The first fleet is all about the maximized ability of the Anti-Pursuit Lasers, forcing your opponents to keep running into your ships to no avail, while your twin-dice turrets damage each other. Hrathen said of the first list: "This list is the Star Wars equivalent of grabbing your younger brother's hand, smacking him in the face with it and all the time saying "Why are you hitting yourself?" over and over again."

The second fleet concerns the awesome interplay of FCS and Gunner, which means that the Gunner attack always is target locked, for free. The Engine Upgrade also turns the non-nimble hipposhuttlemus (Thank you Brown_Bomber for the term) into a sleek and speedy death machine of udder destruction. Captain Yorr's inclusion is played as though one of his Omicrons gets a free Adrenaline Rush every turn. Needless to say, it's a fantastic list to fly, particularly in local metas where the Shuttle is considered a terrible ship.

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For a while now, I've been championing the idea of the Hypermobile B-Wing, and have built a fleet inspired by his Magical Void Buffalo using those ship interactions.

And thus I bring you:

2x Dagger Squadron Pilot

+ Engine Upgrade

+ Advanced Sensors

[31 Each]

Ibtisam

+ Same as the DSPs

+ Push the Limit

[38]

This fleet is all about the freedom of choice. First off, the Adv. Sensors mean that I never have to lose an action to a collision or a red maneuver. Considering that those actions include a native Barrel Roll and an Engine Upgraded Boost, I can avoid collisions that would normally be devastating, such as a Proximity Mine placed underneath the front edge of my ship. Moreover, for the Daggers, I have 10 different starting locations for any maneuver, including the 2 Koiogran. That's 20 different landing sites for non-red maneuvers, and 10 for the reds, for those keeping score at home. For Ibtisam, this remains the case, but Push the Limit adds to her devastation. She has a cloud of 92 flightpaths for any given non-red maneuver, plus the re-rolls that being stressed give her. She also has the option to stress herself with PTL before a Green maneuver, which clears the stress readily, or before a Red maneuver, for those rare times in which you can Boost and Barrel Roll (or vice versa) into a position where handing your opponent your dial is more beneficial than executing your chosen red maneuver.

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I'd also like to point out that my Bumbles have an edge against both of the SableGryphon fleets I mentioned at the top: the first by their incredible ability to avoid collisions, even when those collisions are otherwise inevitable, and the latter by having only 1 agility die, negating the Gunner-FCS interaction due to likely taking a hit right off the bat, and the maneuverability to dance out of the shuttle's firing arc.

I'm going to practice with this trio for some time, just in case I ever get the opportunity to fight the Herdmaster.

Awwwww yeeeaaaaahhhhh ninja B-Wings. Even if you don't win with a list like that you'll have a good time.

Hmm. I think the biggest weakness is that two of your ships move near the front of the turn order. If your opponent is playing something that works well against that, i can see you being in a bit of a pinch. It seems like your guys are relying primarily on beam weaponry, which could put you at a disadvantage offensively against someone who knows how to fly well. On the other hand, i readily recognize the maneuvering versatility that a build like this offers, and have to commend you for it. I'd be interested to play against someone running this, it would turn out very interesting against my regular strategy.

Hmm. I think the biggest weakness is that two of your ships move near the front of the turn order. If your opponent is playing something that works well against that, i can see you being in a bit of a pinch. It seems like your guys are relying primarily on beam weaponry, which could put you at a disadvantage offensively against someone who knows how to fly well. On the other hand, i readily recognize the maneuvering versatility that a build like this offers, and have to commend you for it. I'd be interested to play against someone running this, it would turn out very interesting against my regular strategy.

So, against fleets of named pilots and/or VI swarms, I need to actually think about predictions rather than just putting my daggers wherever I want to.

I don't really know what you mean by "beam weaponry". I am using my primary weapons as opposed to missiles, but I don't have any laser cannons equipped. That said, the skill of my opponents flight has to contend with my cloud of options to outfly me.

This is a tough fleet to fly well, because you have so many options, but have to be able to see which one is the best without measuring (officially). If I master this, then my Interceptor game will be pretty unstoppable.

3 shuttles for the win. not as many people are discounting the shuttle as merely fun but good. i hope i am wrong as it will (is?) starting to lose its tag as a bad ship. if people do write it off then they will be unprepared for it when u play them with it.

It's a solid hyper-mobile list that is specialized in knife fighting. It'll be extremely potent in a tight asteroid field. I've mentioned before that my stellar herds are very weak against the B-Wing and it'll probably hold to be the case here. Though I certainly am not going to play your game if I fly the shuttles against it. I know my immediate tactic would be boom and zoom. It's a lot harder for a B-Wing to stay out of arc at range 3 and even with your ugrades, there is no way for you to keep up with an ivory interplanetary oryx.

I've flown a variant of this list.

4x Blue Squadron + Advanced Sensors

I just tore my enemy apart. There was a nice asteroid cluster that I just lived in the entire game. It was a lot of fun.

There are major two weaknesses evident in your list. The first, as mentioned above, is that PS4 hypermobility is hampered against pilots with a higher PS. Not a problem with my lists of course, but against all comers you might have issues there. The second is that you will be spending your actions moving for the most part. That means no focus or target lock. Again, if you can reliably stay outside of arc, that's not an issue, but if they hit you with turrets or interlocking fields of fire, you may see your fleet start to fall apart.

Again, I love the list and I've toyed with variants. You should have a great time with this one. I haven't focused too much on the B-Wing because it's generally acknowledged to be a great ship. I tend to gravitate towards the ships people don't like when I make lists. Except the TIE Advanced. I'm good, but I'm not a miracle worker.

It's a solid hyper-mobile list that is specialized in knife fighting. It'll be extremely potent in a tight asteroid field. I've mentioned before that my stellar herds are very weak against the B-Wing and it'll probably hold to be the case here. Though I certainly am not going to play your game if I fly the shuttles against it. I know my immediate tactic would be boom and zoom. It's a lot harder for a B-Wing to stay out of arc at range 3 and even with your ugrades, there is no way for you to keep up with an ivory interplanetary oryx.

I've flown a variant of this list.

4x Blue Squadron + Advanced Sensors

I just tore my enemy apart. There was a nice asteroid cluster that I just lived in the entire game. It was a lot of fun.

There are major two weaknesses evident in your list. The first, as mentioned above, is that PS4 hypermobility is hampered against pilots with a higher PS. Not a problem with my lists of course, but against all comers you might have issues there. The second is that you will be spending your actions moving for the most part. That means no focus or target lock. Again, if you can reliably stay outside of arc, that's not an issue, but if they hit you with turrets or interlocking fields of fire, you may see your fleet start to fall apart.

Again, I love the list and I've toyed with variants. You should have a great time with this one. I haven't focused too much on the B-Wing because it's generally acknowledged to be a great ship. I tend to gravitate towards the ships people don't like when I make lists. Except the TIE Advanced. I'm good, but I'm not a miracle worker.

I actually have a theory on how to make the Tie Advanced workable: Fly it like a crazy person.

It is the most survivable smallship in the game, and might even challenge the Shuttle. Yes, that survivability isn't going to make up for the cost to damage ratio, but with the barrel roll option, you can often pepper them from situations where you won't take any damage whatsoever.

I think I want to try out a 4 Advanced list, and even try out the Cluster missiles on them.Who knows, it might be useful!

I actually have a theory on how to make the Tie Advanced workable: Fly it like a crazy person.

It is the most survivable smallship in the game, and might even challenge the Shuttle. Yes, that survivability isn't going to make up for the cost to damage ratio, but with the barrel roll option, you can often pepper them from situations where you won't take any damage whatsoever.

I think I want to try out a 4 Advanced list, and even try out the Cluster missiles on them.Who knows, it might be useful!

The problem with the Advanced isn't it's primary weapon or it's cost. When you come right down to it, the problem with the advanced is its lack of upgrades. You have a choice between four missiles (none of which aid Maarek Steele's ability). You have a host of Elite Pilot skills you can put on, but none of them really enhance the Advanced more than any other craft you can put them on. And you can only put them on the two expensive named pilots. And you can put a modification on, all of which really just add defense or boost. Unlike the shuttle or the ORS, I can't see any really unique combinations here. I can't find any hidden synergy.

The closest I can come up with for Maarek is: Opportunist + Engine Upgrade + Homing Missile. Is it better than PTL and Engine Upgrade? Doubtful. Two round setup (or Colonel Jendon or PS8+ with Squad Leader). Get target lock. Get focus. Kick in Opportunist for 5 dice with focus and target lock. If they take any crits, you get to choose which they get, which is pretty cool. But is it worth 40 points? I can get a white space giraffe for that with points to spare.

Hmm. I think the biggest weakness is that two of your ships move near the front of the turn order. If your opponent is playing something that works well against that, i can see you being in a bit of a pinch. It seems like your guys are relying primarily on beam weaponry, which could put you at a disadvantage offensively against someone who knows how to fly well. On the other hand, i readily recognize the maneuvering versatility that a build like this offers, and have to commend you for it. I'd be interested to play against someone running this, it would turn out very interesting against my regular strategy.

So, against fleets of named pilots and/or VI swarms, I need to actually think about predictions rather than just putting my daggers wherever I want to.

I don't really know what you mean by "beam weaponry". I am using my primary weapons as opposed to missiles, but I don't have any laser cannons equipped. That said, the skill of my opponents flight has to contend with my cloud of options to outfly me.

This is a tough fleet to fly well, because you have so many options, but have to be able to see which one is the best without measuring (officially). If I master this, then my Interceptor game will be pretty unstoppable.

My apologies, i did indeed mean your primary weapons. laser cannons are to me "beam" weapons.

3 shuttles for the win. not as many people are discounting the shuttle as merely fun but good. i hope i am wrong as it will (is?) starting to lose its tag as a bad ship. if people do write it off then they will be unprepared for it when u play them with it.

I haven't gotten to fly them yet ( will tonight) but I've been curious to see how it would work if you loaded them up with anti-persuit lasers and then just tried to collide. That way you could actually benefit from low skill pilots, and they would cost less.

3 shuttles for the win. not as many people are discounting the shuttle as merely fun but good. i hope i am wrong as it will (is?) starting to lose its tag as a bad ship. if people do write it off then they will be unprepared for it when u play them with it.

I haven't gotten to fly them yet ( will tonight) but I've been curious to see how it would work if you loaded them up with anti-persuit lasers and then just tried to collide. That way you could actually benefit from low skill pilots, and they would cost less.

anti-persuit lasers + intelligence agent seems solid for blocking all day with a good chance at inflicting damage. there should be name for a zero move from the shuttle that results in trailing ships hitting it eg. "Stop the bus!"

3 shuttles for the win. not as many people are discounting the shuttle as merely fun but good. i hope i am wrong as it will (is?) starting to lose its tag as a bad ship. if people do write it off then they will be unprepared for it when u play them with it.

I haven't gotten to fly them yet ( will tonight) but I've been curious to see how it would work if you loaded them up with anti-persuit lasers and then just tried to collide. That way you could actually benefit from low skill pilots, and they would cost less.

anti-persuit lasers + intelligence agent seems solid for blocking all day with a good chance at inflicting damage. there should be name for a zero move from the shuttle that results in trailing ships hitting it eg. "Stop the bus!"

Adding a navigator might improve the chance of forcing collisions.

3 shuttles for the win. not as many people are discounting the shuttle as merely fun but good. i hope i am wrong as it will (is?) starting to lose its tag as a bad ship. if people do write it off then they will be unprepared for it when u play them with it.

I haven't gotten to fly them yet ( will tonight) but I've been curious to see how it would work if you loaded them up with anti-persuit lasers and then just tried to collide. That way you could actually benefit from low skill pilots, and they would cost less.

anti-persuit lasers + intelligence agent seems solid for blocking all day with a good chance at inflicting damage. there should be name for a zero move from the shuttle that results in trailing ships hitting it eg. "Stop the bus!"

You got it backwards:

"Bus Stop!"

@SableGryphon: What, in your opinion, would make the TIE Advanced playable making bare minimum changes as a house rule?

@SableGryphon: What, in your opinion, would make the TIE Advanced playable making bare minimum changes as a house rule?

Oooff... Good question. Bare minimum changes?

Ok, one change then. I don't know if this would make the TIE Advanced overpowered and it very well might. Add a systems upgrade slot.

@SableGryphon: What, in your opinion, would make the TIE Advanced playable making bare minimum changes as a house rule?

Oooff... Good question. Bare minimum changes?

Ok, one change then. I don't know if this would make the TIE Advanced overpowered and it very well might. Add a systems upgrade slot.

Another option is to make it 2 points cheaper

@SableGryphon: What, in your opinion, would make the TIE Advanced playable making bare minimum changes as a house rule?

Oooff... Good question. Bare minimum changes?

Ok, one change then. I don't know if this would make the TIE Advanced overpowered and it very well might. Add a systems upgrade slot.

Another option is to make it 2 points cheaper

@SableGryphon: What, in your opinion, would make the TIE Advanced playable making bare minimum changes as a house rule?

Oooff... Good question. Bare minimum changes?

Ok, one change then. I don't know if this would make the TIE Advanced overpowered and it very well might. Add a systems upgrade slot.

Another option is to make it 2 points cheaper

Just 2 points? You think that would make a noticeable difference?

@SableGryphon: What, in your opinion, would make the TIE Advanced playable making bare minimum changes as a house rule?

Oooff... Good question. Bare minimum changes?

Ok, one change then. I don't know if this would make the TIE Advanced overpowered and it very well might. Add a systems upgrade slot.

Another option is to make it 2 points cheaper

@SableGryphon: What, in your opinion, would make the TIE Advanced playable making bare minimum changes as a house rule?

Oooff... Good question. Bare minimum changes?

Ok, one change then. I don't know if this would make the TIE Advanced overpowered and it very well might. Add a systems upgrade slot.

Another option is to make it 2 points cheaper

Just 2 points? You think that would make a noticeable difference?

Yes.

For one thing, its the difference between running 4 and running 5 at the low end of the scale.

Also, 2 points across the board gives a lot more ability to run it in a mixed fleet.

A TIE Advanced Title would be nice and an easy way to add a Systems Upgrade slot.

I do love the Shuttle. Getting a cheap one is easy, and they are pretty durable for the price. The big base is always in the way, and against many of the Rebel's low maneuverability on their ships, it can be great for action denial, and movement denial allowing your other Imperial ships get to where they need to be.

And of course, it has the upgrad-ability to be many roles, such as a HLC to send in some love from afar, or Antipursuit lasers to be annoying, or an Ion cannon to try and stop enemies from getting around. I think you can do one with an Ion cannon for like 29 points or so.

EDIT: Kagi with Ion cannon and Anti Pursuit Lasers is 29 points. Use the generic pilot and its 27. That's Soontir's base, so its pretty cheap. Not TIE Fighter 12 cheap, but still pretty cheap for a big ship.

@SableGryphon: What, in your opinion, would make the TIE Advanced playable making bare minimum changes as a house rule?

Oooff... Good question. Bare minimum changes?

Ok, one change then. I don't know if this would make the TIE Advanced overpowered and it very well might. Add a systems upgrade slot.

So what combos would you put together using this house rule? One for each pilot. I appreciate your responses.

I think the following list would be pretty scary:

4x Tempest Squadron Pilot + Sensor Jammer (talk about survivable)

Storm Squadron + Advanced Sensors would be another idea, since that would allow you to barrel roll before moving, making that craft quite mobile.

Maarek Steele + PTL + Advanced Sensors + Engine Upgrade (hypermobile TIE Advanced)

Darth Vader + PTL + Advanced Sensors + Engine Upgrade (Hypermobile Vader? Yes please)

We really need another ship that comes with advanced sensors, the shuttle is fine but I don't really want four of them. Hopefully this card will be seen again in wave four.