Dead for One Thousand Years

R Destroy this foundation: After your opponent plays an ability on a foundation or asset in their staging area, all copies of that card are considered to have a blank text box until the end of the turn.

Does this card really cancel the ability without officially canceling the ability?

This is the order of operations as I see it:

Player A: Olcadon's F Commit:

Player B: STOP! React with Dead for One Thousand Years to the PLAYING of the ability.

Player A: Attempt to resolve Olcadon's ability, but there is no text box any more. Fizzle.

There was no actual cancel played so cards that stop or alter negate/cancel cannot stop it.

If this works this way, sweet!

it works this way. and is sweet. *STAMP*

Really? IIRC effects, once played, exist independently of their source.

It seems to me that a contradiction exists between this ruling and the ruling on Impetuous (and its cousins). Impetuous reacts after an ability has been played and removes the ability's source from play; the game state cannot reference cards that are out of play except when ability specifically allows it (Schmetterling Performance Arts).

Basically, why should it be that removing the text from a card and removing a card from play are treated in two fundamentally different ways?

Because removing the text from a card isn't the same thing as removing it from play. How can you argue that it is the same thing?

In one case the ability no longer has any text. In the other, the ability still has text, it's just in a different zone.

Wait so the effect of the blanked card doest even go into effect? I thought the effect would stil go thru but then you cant play it anymore

The card makes it be blank, so the source is there. The ability just doesn't go off because when it is about to resolve, the card turns out to be blank, so the ability is blank.

That's the way I see it. And it is awesome.

guitalex2008 said:

*STAMP*

So, The "After the ablility is played" what about effect such as impetuous. It destroys it and allows the ability to stil go through, what is the difference between why the ability doesnt fizzle there? Shouldnt Dead for One THousand Years only blank the card after it gets played ?

Difference is, there is no longer an ability to resolve. The ability isn't resolved until after the cost is paid, so it isn't even considered. When about to resolve, turns out the card is blank so nothing happens.

Moreover, you're not removing the source, you're making it so the source is now a blank card, so the ability no longer exists; the source isn't gone, but there's just simply no ability anymore to resolve.

guitalex2008 said:

*STAMP* again

Sorry to bring this up again but just found out about this ruling and I wanted to confirm something that I noticed. From the wording of what you said Guitalex and the subsequent stamp that came after does this mean that DfOTY makes it so that you do not have to pay the cost of the ability if DfOTY blanks the effect? If the effect doesn't resolve until after the cost is paid and DfOTY blanks the effect prior to the resolution then that would have to mean that you would not have to pay the effects of an ability that is blanked by DfOTY as this ruling states that the effect never actually gets to resolve. So the order of what would happen would be as follows...

1. I announce that I am going to play one of my Psycho Styles and state how many foundations that I plan to commit for the cost of the ability.

2. My opponent plays the effect of DfOTY and blanks all of my Psycho Styles

3. Psycho Style attempts to resolve but is unable to as there is no longer an effect to reference. Thus I no longer need to pay the cost.

4. As a result neither I nor my opponent commit anything for my playing the effect of Psycho Style.

Suija said:

Canceling always comes after the cost is played, which is why when someone says "E commit: I dr-" "No memories, I cancel the ability" the cost is still paid, otherwise they could just keep playing it, this goes for most, if not all R abilities responding to someone playing an ability.

You're sticking the DOTY response in there too early.

You declare how much you're committing for the cost of Psycho Style.

You then commit that many foundations , paying the cost.

The ability is now considered played.

DOTY responds.

so this came to my attention during a chat about the new rules with other players.

How does DfOTY "negate" the ability if the ability is independant of the source once its played and after and ability is play is befinately after the ability is played? who cares if the foundation it came from is blank? it knows what its going to do when its played and shouldnt have to reference back to this now blank card to see what it does

The ability doesn't have any text anymore.

It's like you played Mentoring and now it says F Commit:

2.13.1 After the generation of an effect, it exists independently of its source. Destruction or
removal of the source after that time won’t affect the ability.

when an ability is played an effect is generated yes? DfOTY specifically says AFTER an ability is played yes?

I don't know if any one plays VS here, but there are cards in the game that blank out text boxes for a turn. For example Spider-Man, Secret Avenger reads "Discard a character card -> Target opposing character loses and can't have powers and keywords this turn. Use only once per turn." If a person where to play a power on a character, Spider-man could respond first and when resolved the character's power nothing would happen because the text box was essentially blank.

Not exactly the best explanation since it's from a different game, but I can see why the current ruling is the way it is.

First off DfOTY doesn't destroy or remove a foundation so that rule doesn't apply here.

You play an ability THEN you get it's effect. It's almost the same thing that happenes when you negate something, the ability is played first but then it's negated. Look at cards that negate stuff they say "when an E is played" etc. Just because it's played doesn't mean you get the effects of the ability.

And in this case the ability is played, DfOTY is used, then you go to resolve your ability but it isn't there anymore.

thank you JDub, good explanation

If there was an ability that said "After your opponent plays an enhance, changes all instances of the word "damage" to "speed" on all copies of that card. This effect lasts until end of turn."

Same timing. It has to go off before the effect is instantiated otherwise it would have no effect on the effect.

i get the arguement, i just cant agree with it. when an ability is played it creates an effect. the rules say that said effect is independent of the source, being the ability printed on the card. the text is removed and your saying thats not removing the source, aka exactly what the rules say doesnt change the effect?

No, we're saying the effect or effects of the ability are created after the trigger. If the ability is canceled (or in this case, the changed to blank, which amounts to much the same thing without actually being a cancel) at the trigger it happens before the effect is generated.

Timeline:

Ability announced

Costs paid

Trigger for cancel/modification

Effect(s) generated

Ziephnir said:

Go reread the rule in question again. It does not say when an ability is played it generates an effect it says " AFTER THE GENERATION OF AN EFFECT ". An effect isn't generated until the ability is played and THEN successful (it's not negated or in this case blanked).

Basically what rule 2.13.1 is saying is that after an ability is successful if you destroy or remove where it came from (ex: Impetuous) it will still happen. In this case the cards text is blanked by DfOTY before it generates an effect, which means there is no longer any effect to generate.

Good, it still works the way I thought it did.

Pretty much every single counter argument explained here was brought up in a discussion.

The point is, you're not removing the source. You're blanking the ability, so basically instead of:

[Abbrevistion Type] [Costs] : [Effects]

You have:

[Abbreviation Type] [Costs] :

...Nothing.

aslum said:

That doesn't work though. If the card is destroyed after the cost is paid (and therefore the ability is played) then the effect will not be generated as the source is no longer there. In order for Lesser of Many Evils to actually work, the effect must be generated as soon as the cost is played, otherwise the source is out of play when the effect would be generated and thus can't be generated. If the effect is generated when the cost is played, changing the source of that effect will not change the effect itself, so DFOTY will not prevent the first use of whatever Asset/Foundation it is responding to.

Rules aside, from a common sense standpoint, every negation in this game specifically says it negates the ability. DFOTY does not, therefore the most obvious assumption is that it does not negate the effect.