An engineer designs or builds things.

A technician maintains or repairs things.

Yeah, I'm just gonna stop you there and say no to that.

Not only are they, mechanically, pretty much the same, but that description is pretty far off as well. Especially considering you're not considering what kind of engineer or technician they are. Check your liberal art privilege.

Huh? No, by the definitions of the words he is correct.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/engineer?show=0&t=1390328280

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/technician

Now mechanically, I doubt anyone would want to play a real Engineer. After all, long term building and engineering design doesn't make for a good story. Not unless we compress a lot of game time and play fast and loose with design times. While I am sure the creators simply looked for a synonym that was close enough, since there are military engineers that deal with large scale designs of earthwork and architecture they used that.

Considering we're going anecdotal and whatnot, yeah, you're wrong

That *******, Shanix, he likes playing an Engineer. Especially an Electrical Engineer, or mechanical. But that's too long term, ain't it? Again I have to state, there's more than one kind of engineering, especially in SPEHS. It's arguably that there's going to be a metric fuckton more of engineering kinds in the future. But anyways. There's a lot of engineer types in the military for that matter. Each and every one of them.

I'm playing a Computer Engineer in my game, and it's SO ANNOYING when people expect me to be able to repair stuff. I spent my credits on a good education in game, and everywhere I go, cis-employed people like YOU come up and expect me to do anything! How dare you consider Engineer to be a single profession! You can't possibly understand with your English degree and liberal arts education, all you can do is oppress us hard working engineers!

An engineer designs or builds things.

A technician maintains or repairs things.

Yeah, I'm just gonna stop you there and say no to that.

Not only are they, mechanically, pretty much the same, but that description is pretty far off as well. Especially considering you're not considering what kind of engineer or technician they are. Check your liberal art privilege.

Huh? No, by the definitions of the words he is correct.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/engineer?show=0&t=1390328280

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/technician

Now mechanically, I doubt anyone would want to play a real Engineer. After all, long term building and engineering design doesn't make for a good story. Not unless we compress a lot of game time and play fast and loose with design times. While I am sure the creators simply looked for a synonym that was close enough, since there are military engineers that deal with large scale designs of earthwork and architecture they used that.

Considering we're going anecdotal and whatnot, yeah, you're wrong

That *******, Shanix, he likes playing an Engineer. Especially an Electrical Engineer, or mechanical. But that's too long term, ain't it? Again I have to state, there's more than one kind of engineering, especially in SPEHS. It's arguably that there's going to be a metric fuckton more of engineering kinds in the future. But anyways. There's a lot of engineer types in the military for that matter. Each and every one of them.

I'm playing a Computer Engineer in my game, and it's SO ANNOYING when people expect me to be able to repair stuff. I spent my credits on a good education in game, and everywhere I go, cis-employed people like YOU come up and expect me to do anything! How dare you consider Engineer to be a single profession! You can't possibly understand with your English degree and liberal arts education, all you can do is oppress us hard working engineers!

You do realize that computer programming takes long, hard hours to accomplish don't you? It fits under the definition of Engineer that I posted. i.e. designs large complex systems.

Aside from that, extremely rude and inaccurate.

English Major detected, semantics as they are engineers also can refer to people who operate and repair machinery. Or combat engineers who place explosives and build bridges, ect.

ALSO I have gmed... 3 or so campaigns with "engineers" as PC's they are some of the most amusing characters to play with when the party needs technical knowledge or a big explosion. So check your dictionary privilege you Webster scum.

Simply amazing.

Again, Combat Engineers are not the same as Engineers. Nor would they have the same skill set or talents.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_engineering

Neither did the engineers in star trek. Its all semantics.

An engineer designs or builds things.

A technician maintains or repairs things.

Yeah, I'm just gonna stop you there and say no to that.

Not only are they, mechanically, pretty much the same, but that description is pretty far off as well. Especially considering you're not considering what kind of engineer or technician they are. Check your liberal art privilege.

Huh? No, by the definitions of the words he is correct.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/engineer?show=0&t=1390328280

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/technician

Now mechanically, I doubt anyone would want to play a real Engineer. After all, long term building and engineering design doesn't make for a good story. Not unless we compress a lot of game time and play fast and loose with design times. While I am sure the creators simply looked for a synonym that was close enough, since there are military engineers that deal with large scale designs of earthwork and architecture they used that.

Considering we're going anecdotal and whatnot, yeah, you're wrong

That *******, Shanix, he likes playing an Engineer. Especially an Electrical Engineer, or mechanical. But that's too long term, ain't it? Again I have to state, there's more than one kind of engineering, especially in SPEHS. It's arguably that there's going to be a metric fuckton more of engineering kinds in the future. But anyways. There's a lot of engineer types in the military for that matter. Each and every one of them.

I'm playing a Computer Engineer in my game, and it's SO ANNOYING when people expect me to be able to repair stuff. I spent my credits on a good education in game, and everywhere I go, cis-employed people like YOU come up and expect me to do anything! How dare you consider Engineer to be a single profession! You can't possibly understand with your English degree and liberal arts education, all you can do is oppress us hard working engineers!

You do realize that computer programming takes long, hard hours to accomplish don't you? It fits under the definition of Engineer that I posted. i.e. designs large complex systems.

Aside from that, extremely rude and inaccurate.

You do realize that you don't know exactly what you're talking about, right? Code isn't always the same.

English Major detected, semantics as they are engineers also can refer to people who operate and repair machinery. Or combat engineers who place explosives and build bridges, ect.

ALSO I have gmed... 3 or so campaigns with "engineers" as PC's they are some of the most amusing characters to play with when the party needs technical knowledge or a big explosion. So check your dictionary privilege you Webster scum.

Simply amazing.

Again, Combat Engineers are not the same as Engineers. Nor would they have the same skill set or talents.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_engineering

Neither did the engineers in star trek. Its all semantics.

Engineers in Star Trek were named such because they operate the propulsion system of the vessel. Just like modern marine (not the branch of the military) engineers. They did impossible things sixteen times a day, because the plot required it. Ask a real engineer if their job description includes whipping up a new impossible solution at the last minute. No, they require long hard hours of real work and skull-sweat. It takes problem solving and dedication.

Yes, it is semantics, but semantics are important for having a shared and common language for having discussions.

An engineer designs or builds things.

A technician maintains or repairs things.

Yeah, I'm just gonna stop you there and say no to that.

Not only are they, mechanically, pretty much the same, but that description is pretty far off as well. Especially considering you're not considering what kind of engineer or technician they are. Check your liberal art privilege.

Huh? No, by the definitions of the words he is correct.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/engineer?show=0&t=1390328280

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/technician

Now mechanically, I doubt anyone would want to play a real Engineer. After all, long term building and engineering design doesn't make for a good story. Not unless we compress a lot of game time and play fast and loose with design times. While I am sure the creators simply looked for a synonym that was close enough, since there are military engineers that deal with large scale designs of earthwork and architecture they used that.

Considering we're going anecdotal and whatnot, yeah, you're wrong

That *******, Shanix, he likes playing an Engineer. Especially an Electrical Engineer, or mechanical. But that's too long term, ain't it? Again I have to state, there's more than one kind of engineering, especially in SPEHS. It's arguably that there's going to be a metric fuckton more of engineering kinds in the future. But anyways. There's a lot of engineer types in the military for that matter. Each and every one of them.

I'm playing a Computer Engineer in my game, and it's SO ANNOYING when people expect me to be able to repair stuff. I spent my credits on a good education in game, and everywhere I go, cis-employed people like YOU come up and expect me to do anything! How dare you consider Engineer to be a single profession! You can't possibly understand with your English degree and liberal arts education, all you can do is oppress us hard working engineers!

You do realize that computer programming takes long, hard hours to accomplish don't you? It fits under the definition of Engineer that I posted. i.e. designs large complex systems.

Aside from that, extremely rude and inaccurate.

You do realize that you don't know exactly what you're talking about, right? Code isn't always the same.

Never mind.

If you want to believe that coding is simple, quick, and requires no time at all. Feel free. I suspect that anyone who codes for a living would disagree with that. There is a structure that involves planning, coding, and debugging that takes time for most projects.

English Major detected, semantics as they are engineers also can refer to people who operate and repair machinery. Or combat engineers who place explosives and build bridges, ect.

ALSO I have gmed... 3 or so campaigns with "engineers" as PC's they are some of the most amusing characters to play with when the party needs technical knowledge or a big explosion. So check your dictionary privilege you Webster scum.

Simply amazing.

Again, Combat Engineers are not the same as Engineers. Nor would they have the same skill set or talents.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_engineering

Neither did the engineers in star trek. Its all semantics.

Engineers in Star Trek were named such because they operate the propulsion system of the vessel. Just like modern marine (not the branch of the military) engineers. They did impossible things sixteen times a day, because the plot required it. Ask a real engineer if their job description includes whipping up a new impossible solution at the last minute. No, they require long hard hours of real work and skull-sweat. It takes problem solving and dedication.

Yes, it is semantics, but semantics are important for having a shared and common language for having discussions.

Yes.. but this is storytelling where the plot requires the PC's to do the impossible, I don't see the issue.Unless no fun is allowed which you seem to be saying I should allow people to play engineers and do the impossible by throwing up targeting solutions and repairing the hyper drive in the space of a minute with spare parts and some luck.

Also I have a friend who was a electrical engineer, he often ended up getting inside the machine he was wiring planning the wiring for to fix something that the builders messed up or didn't fit right. It really depends on what you're doing, and what you're actually hired for.

Back on topic, my five cents is that the empire should have a sourcebook, if not that a supplemental book. Even if you don't want to deal in shades of grey playing the bad guy is sometimes fun as there is more opportunity to play like the dire bastards people are at heart. That being said, the Imperials aren't all that bad they just wanted to rule the world hell player characters often try to grab for power. I can see the appeal in having a good set of resources to run a empire campaign even though it probably could be done all through wookiepedia, a few reference books, and a fair bit of homebrewing.

English Major detected, semantics as they are engineers also can refer to people who operate and repair machinery. Or combat engineers who place explosives and build bridges, ect.

ALSO I have gmed... 3 or so campaigns with "engineers" as PC's they are some of the most amusing characters to play with when the party needs technical knowledge or a big explosion. So check your dictionary privilege you Webster scum.

Simply amazing.

Again, Combat Engineers are not the same as Engineers. Nor would they have the same skill set or talents.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_engineering

Neither did the engineers in star trek. Its all semantics.

Engineers in Star Trek were named such because they operate the propulsion system of the vessel. Just like modern marine (not the branch of the military) engineers. They did impossible things sixteen times a day, because the plot required it. Ask a real engineer if their job description includes whipping up a new impossible solution at the last minute. No, they require long hard hours of real work and skull-sweat. It takes problem solving and dedication.

Yes, it is semantics, but semantics are important for having a shared and common language for having discussions.

Yes.. but this is storytelling where the plot requires the PC's to do the impossible, I don't see the issue.Unless no fun is allowed which you seem to be saying I should allow people to play engineers and do the impossible by throwing up targeting solutions and repairing the hyper drive in the space of a minute with spare parts and some luck.

Also I have a friend who was a electrical engineer, he often ended up getting inside the machine he was wiring planning the wiring for to fix something that the builders messed up or didn't fit right. It really depends on what you're doing, and what you're actually hired for.

You are absolutely correct.

In the real world we do all sorts of things that we cross train to do. He was trained as an electrical engineer, and he is doing the work of a technician. He could turn around and design and build an amazing gizmo also if he was so inclined, because of his level of education.

You are also correct that the real world definitions would be boring as hell to play. We don't play engineers, we play technicians, or machine gods, or jerry-riggers, or shade-tree mechanics. We play them because they are fun to play.

They are still the correct definitions though. That is my only real point in all of this.

Back on topic, my five cents is that the empire should have a sourcebook, if not that a supplemental book. Even if you don't want to deal in shades of grey playing the bad guy is sometimes fun as there is more opportunity to play like the dire bastards people are at heart. That being said, the Imperials aren't all that bad they just wanted to rule the world hell player characters often try to grab for power. I can see the appeal in having a good set of resources to run a empire campaign even though it probably could be done all through wookiepedia, a few reference books, and a fair bit of homebrewing.

I think it would be cool to have an entire series of cross-over books, not just an Imperial set.

Let's have one for the Imperial Forces. Lets have one for the various criminal cartels. Let's have one for non-trilogy settings. Let's have one for the various Star Wars Infinities comics. There are plenty of ideas that could be merged into a set of source-books that would fit all three game lines.

Never mind.

If you want to believe that coding is simple, quick, and requires no time at all. Feel free. I suspect that anyone who codes for a living would disagree with that. There is a structure that involves planning, coding, and debugging that takes time for most projects.

I do, actually. Every day. It's not hard when you know what you're doing.

Never mind.

If you want to believe that coding is simple, quick, and requires no time at all. Feel free. I suspect that anyone who codes for a living would disagree with that. There is a structure that involves planning, coding, and debugging that takes time for most projects.

I do, actually. Every day. It's not hard when you know what you're doing.

Okay, so how long does it take you to plan, code, and debug your average program, application, or system from scratch? Not using pre-made modules created by others.

Never mind.

If you want to believe that coding is simple, quick, and requires no time at all. Feel free. I suspect that anyone who codes for a living would disagree with that. There is a structure that involves planning, coding, and debugging that takes time for most projects.

I do, actually. Every day. It's not hard when you know what you're doing.

Okay, so how long does it take you to plan, code, and debug your average program, application, or system from scratch? Not using pre-made modules created by others.

It depends exactly what I'm coding, obviously. Let's imagine I'm coding a machine to roll a hot dog down onto a grill, then push it onto a bun that's waiting on a conveyor system (the bun having been separated earlier on a different conveyor), then gets sent to a condiment station (two funnels with clamps to open or close them), then onto an AGV that delivers it to a table.

Ignoring construction, the entire project took ~2 hours to code, half an hour to debug, and then it was ready to go. That's pretty average.

If you want slowest, it was a multi-day 8 hour affair involving a LOT of calibration with faulty sensors. Shortest was 5 minutes for a simple bump motor.

Yeah it's not really hard when you know what you're doing.

Runs in to enthusiastically greet the community......sloooowly backs away.....

Runs in to enthusiastically greet the community......sloooowly backs away.....

Yeah, much like any company-sponsored forum, the amount of traffic means there's going to be a lot more petty posturing and pointless bickering as personality types clash, particularly if the moderators either passively moderate (only responding when posts are reported as CoC violations) or don't bother moderating at all. The WotC forums, particularly the Star Wars portion, had that second problem in spades once Gary Sarli (WizO_the_Hutt) stepped down from moderator duties.

Runs in to enthusiastically greet the community......sloooowly backs away.....

You think this is bad?

They just deleted a thread where people were arguing over the merits of r-a-p-e in EoE. Srsly.

It actually had me feeling nostalgic for the old ErikB threads, which were 50-odd pages of pure nonsense.

You think this is bad?

They just deleted a thread where people were arguing over the merits of r-a-p-e in EoE. Srsly.

I count myself glad I missed that thread. But at least it proves the moderators are at least passively active on these boards.

You think this is bad?

They just deleted a thread where people were arguing over the merits of r-a-p-e in EoE. Srsly.

I count myself glad I missed that thread. But at least it proves the moderators are at least passively active on these boards.

Be glad indeed. It was a displeasure reading that...

You think this is bad?

They just deleted a thread where people were arguing over the merits of r-a-p-e in EoE. Srsly.

I count myself glad I missed that thread. But at least it proves the moderators are at least passively active on these boards.

I asked for them to nuke it, although I'm sure they would've gotten around to it.

You think this is bad?

They just deleted a thread where people were arguing over the merits of r-a-p-e in EoE. Srsly.

It actually had me feeling nostalgic for the old ErikB threads, which were 50-odd pages of pure nonsense.

Only because it seems I have exceeded my quota of "likes" today (I think I have a problem). I will perform an old-school +1 to this

Call me crazy, but I would like Imperial sourcebooks just for the content and art. I don't think I would ever run an imperial campaign but I would like to have that content from FFG...plus I would like an imperial agent class..and adventures for Imperial agent would be sweet. wishlisting I know.

You think this is bad?

They just deleted a thread where people were arguing over the merits of r-a-p-e in EoE. Srsly.

It actually had me feeling nostalgic for the old ErikB threads, which were 50-odd pages of pure nonsense.

I didn't see anyone arguing the merits at all, as much as discuss the implications. I know it's tempting sometimes to drag issues cross-thread and trawl for comments by means of misrepresentation and disingenuous offhand comments, but the thread is dead now; can we leave it dead and stick to the topic(s)?

Call me crazy, but I would like Imperial sourcebooks just for the content and art. I don't think I would ever run an imperial campaign but I would like to have that content from FFG...plus I would like an imperial agent class..and adventures for Imperial agent would be sweet. wishlisting I know.

I would aim for something at least tenuously more neutral than Imperial Agent, such as an Operative ("Black" Operative?"), but you are of course right; either way, much like the distinction between AoR and EotE, much of the appeal lies beyond the pure crunch, and the promise of an entire line of fluff-appropriate content.

Mechanically, the differences between the various Core Rulebooks (at least AoR and EotE) are rather shallow, with the prime appeal being added stuff in the same vein as before. The meat of anything lies in all the stuff *around* that, and I think that's what most of us are wanting.

I want names, dates, battles, heroic moments, atrocities, valiant upholders of order, evil abusers of power, corruption, betrayal, vehicles, guns, gear, ... everything.

I want people ranging from raving lunatics to cold planers, xenophobs to honour-bound paladins,...

The Empire during it's height controls up about 2/3s of the known galaxy, that is a lot of people, planets and adventure opportunities.

I want names, dates, battles, heroic moments, atrocities, valiant upholders of order, evil abusers of power, corruption, betrayal, vehicles, guns, gear, ... everything. I want people ranging from raving lunatics to cold planers, xenophobs to honour-bound paladins,... The Empire during it's height controls up about 2/3s of the known galaxy, that is a lot of people, planets and adventure opportunities.

Wookiepedia?

I want names, dates, battles, heroic moments, atrocities, valiant upholders of order, evil abusers of power, corruption, betrayal, vehicles, guns, gear, ... everything. I want people ranging from raving lunatics to cold planers, xenophobs to honour-bound paladins,... The Empire during it's height controls up about 2/3s of the known galaxy, that is a lot of people, planets and adventure opportunities.

Wookiepedia?

Would you argue that Wookiepedia is an acceptable replacement for Age of Rebellion, too?