What started as a fun squad has really outperformed expectations. 3-0 against rebel {scum} (1 ABXY, 1 Roark + rookies, 1 Roark and Bwings).

BH+ Recon Specialist + Seismic Charges x2= 76

Omicron + Vader = 24

100pts

You have the HP to go toe to toe with just about anything and after that first salvo you have 2 rear arcs and if Vader is still around a late game auto crit.

The general tactic is Rush and Unload, muck up the furball with 3 large bases, drop charges (trading hp if needed), and stay at range 3 until you have a #'s advantage and just roll modified dice all day with Recon Specialist, zoom in at close range if you have the kill.

Also, since your large bases zoom about so much you can lead your opponents back in front of Vader's Guns. Unless it assures a priority target kill, don't kill off your shuttle... make your opponent spend resources to do it. 3-4 dice with TL/F in the end game followed by an auto crit is a big knock out punch.

Asteroid placement is HUGE. You have to figure out how to keep a lane open for the Albino Rhino of void and pain (I know, keep it to whales, bovines, and buses...but it rhymes and sounds cool). I've been essentially playing this list as "25hp" instead of 30 (vader) and, again, keeping my distance after the first joust.

What say you?

I say I need to find the funds to add at least 2 shuttles and 2 Firesprays to my collection.

This is the squad that I ran at Worlds. It did very well for me (3 & 2) even even though I couldn't roll a focus to save my life. The damage from the charges and the crits from Vader saved me several times. I flew against good players who had tough lists. This is a very good squad. The main problem with it is the PS level. As more players are moving to PS 4 this can be a problem. I was able to win agains Bloody Daggers (x2 Dagger with Adv Sensors and x2 Red Squadron), but that was a tough fight. A key crit from Vader Saved my bacon in that match. When I've run this list I have a setup that can keep the Shuttle in Back for 5 + turns. Sense you don't have engine upgrade you really need to be able to keep that shuttle back so that you can maximize your shots with it. This is a great list, and I'm not surprised your doing so well with it.

its hard to improve this list. no room to tweek things. low pilot skill can only be improved by upgrading a BH to Krassis or Kath. This would mean dropping a combination of recon specialist and/or seismic charges - thats a tradeoff im not sure helps this squad.

BH+ Recon Specialist + Seismic Charges (38)

BH+ Recon Specialist + Seismic Charges

Omicron + Vader (24)

+ Kath Scarlet (38)

your points are still equally balanced as they were before but only one Slave1 has recon specialist and have no seismics in return for your PS7 upgrade to Kath Scarlet.

another option could be upgrading the Omicron to Yorr and a recon specialist or both seismics and have an extra point left over. This squad would look like this...

100pts

BH+ Seismic Charges (35)

BH+ Recon Specialist + Seismic Charges (38)

Yorr + Vader (27)

or

99pts

BH+ Recon Specialist (36)

BH + Recon Specialist (36)

Yorr + Vader (27)

out of these variants i prefer the 99pt version, its traded seismics for a small boost in pilot skill and the ability to take stress from ur BH's. it will mean ur shuttle will shoot before ur BH's though which will mean its eating shields early on instead of hull - which is not optimal for triggering Vader Crew.

This is the squad that I ran at Worlds. It did very well for me (3 & 2) even even though I couldn't roll a focus to save my life. The damage from the charges and the crits from Vader saved me several times. I flew against good players who had tough lists. This is a very good squad. The main problem with it is the PS level. As more players are moving to PS 4 this can be a problem. I was able to win agains Bloody Daggers (x2 Dagger with Adv Sensors and x2 Red Squadron), but that was a tough fight. A key crit from Vader Saved my bacon in that match. When I've run this list I have a setup that can keep the Shuttle in Back for 5 + turns. Sense you don't have engine upgrade you really need to be able to keep that shuttle back so that you can maximize your shots with it. This is a great list, and I'm not surprised your doing so well with it.

Awesome. I'd love to hear more about your tactics using this. I've used some combo of stall and rush between the 3 ships all three times so far and since the results have been similar and only flown against similar lists it's been hard for me to develop different tactics. Do you stack one of the Bounties in front of the shuttle?

Just lost to a named tie swarm... durn little buggers...

PS was pretty much the deciding factor as howl, DC, BS, and NB all shot first. Vader made short work of the Academies, seismics totaled 4 damage and put the game within striking distance but reroll after reroll eventually took it's toll. In 13 turns it was NB and BS at one hull each and Howl at full Vs. a BH with only sheilds gone. Just couldn't finish them off since I was using both focus on defense. Was able to down both NB and BS but Howl with PTL/Stealth in the end was just too much.

I'd really like to be able to up the PS but without a 35pt bounty hunter, No go. I'd like to see a named bounty hunter (maybe "young fett") at 35pts, PS 5, who can reroll twice for asteroid damage and can shoot from on asteroids. There is always a firespray hiding on an asteroid.

Just an update here:

Got beat pretty handedly by Roark, dagger, blue, rookie list (Blue Garnet) and then slapped agile swarm pretty hard with the help of a lot of crits and lucky defense rolls.

So far 4-2. One swarm loss, one Bwing loss.

I think the rush, turn, fly away strategy is still best here. I tried the shuttle stall but then the BH's take all the fire and a timely crit vs thier 6 hull can be hard to recover from. Gotta make sure Vader's shuttle is seen as a threat. You don't want it to be your last ship or even your second to last ship. Both of my losses were losing a BH before the shuttle. Seismics and recon specialists are definitely my load out of choice. I haven't failed to get 4 damage out of the bombs yet and doubt gunner would do better offensively but the extra focus is money defensively, especially if your opponent has multiple ships to shoot you with first.

I ran something similar at worlds:

2x BH

1x Omicron w/HLC, AdvSensors (so it can bump and stay in the fight longer),Vader

I went 3-2 at worlds with one match versus a Chewie list where I was on the very unlucky side of the dice (this squad beats YT1300-based lists generally without much trouble).

There were two 3-2 2Bh+Vader shuttles at worlds then. Good to hear.

5-4 now. Bwings seem to be the killer. High HP and firepower with back up. Saw 2 rebel swarm lists take it down today. First was one sided but the rebels made a big come back. 2nd was h opposite, rebels came out hard and then the imperials made a comeback but came up short.

3/4 losses were to multi bwing lists. Since Bwings are kinda a think right now I figured I'd go back to the drawing board. Looking at a combo of 2 of my lists now:

Omni+ Vader

Kath+ expert handling+ recon + seismic

Backstabber

Nightbeast

Might feel a bit different and tear up some Bwings

RW - Have u considered Swarm Tactics?

how about...

100pts

Kath + Swarm Tactics (40)

Omicron + Vader (24)

Academy Pilot (12)

Academy Pilot (12)

Academy Pilot (12)

100pts

Kath + Swarm Tactics (40)

Omicron + Vader (24)

Alpha Squadron Pilot (18)

Alpha Squadron Pilot (18)

I actually did think about it but really like the manueverability options (both games I found myself outmaneuvered). Swarm tactics also doesn't really "add" much. I liked night beast and stabber for more offense and 2 more high acuracy pilots peeling off shields before the Vader shuttle.

After more thinking and brewing I think the load out needs a review. Recon and expert handling are not working together... Seismic has been consistent and useful but that could free up more points for something more interesting. And then at that point what is Kath REALLY adding. I'm super sadly second guessing myself here. The original list was sooo good... Until it wasn't.

Your thread got me thinking so I have joined the play testing. Last night I ran

Omicron + Vader + advanced sensors + engine

BH + recon

BH

Against ibitsiam, luke, Jan ors won't list all the tricks.

2-0 to me

Recon did nothing so tried dropping it and putting a merc to shuttle.

Against luke, Ib, Garden

Lost this one but my fault in flying errors, missed two crucial shots due to catching asteroids.

First time I've flown the shuttle with both advanced and engine, really surprised me how manoeuvrable it can be.

Think next time going to put a rebel captive on the shuttle and try that.

Side note, Vader is awesome, can't wait to try him against ties

It takes some learnin, that's for sure! but after you get it figured out it will outperform all other early assessments. This list Eats xwings and should have great odds against tie swarms (named is tougher because they get so much early damage. Sacrifice one BH if you face them so the shuttle has more auto crits). Bwings kill this list though, good luck avoiding those at this point in the game.

I don't like AdvS + engine on my Vader shuttles as I want it to die. Recon on Bounties is a must in my opinion for this list. Also, I want people shooting at my shuttle so no Rebel Captive for me. I would say the seismic charges from my original list are really the only thing that's not mandatory so you only have 4pts to play with, 7 if you want to go one BH without a recon specialist. Just not quite enough wiggle room.

i wonder if one BH with HLC would be worth it?

Omicron + Vader
BH + recon
BH + HLC

its low ps but even...

Omicron + Vader
BH + HLC

Academy Pilot

Academy Pilot

Academy Pilot

??

That was another way I was going but I don't see much extra spike damage vs. the problem enemy (bwings) by adding a HLC.

That was another way I was going but I don't see much extra spike damage vs. the problem enemy (bwings) by adding a HLC.

4 attack dice at long range is a solid option versus B-Wings. if u engage them in close they can put u on 'spin cycle' and out manouvre you with their barrel rolling - esp if they have adv. sensors.

imo the best way to deal with them is to target one of them and hit it with everything u have - that 1 defense dice is their achilles heel, the trick is to get all your offense focused on one in the same attack to strip its shields.

i managed to take a B-Wing out in one turn with Buzzsaw shuttle + BH with HLC and a single 2 tie-fighters - it helped that the HLC got 4 hits and he missed his evade roll

The move from 3 to 4 dice, even with a reduction of 1 Ag dice is unlikely to be the deciding factor vs a bwing. The problem I find is the 5 shields. 11-12 dice flying around vs 3-4 AG dice means if the crits don't hit right the **** thing still might live, even with the Vader crit. The reason I don't like the HCL is the loss of seismics, and 1 recon. Those 3 upgrades account for 3+ damage a game, more than the 1 HCL shot the shuttle might get.

I'm thinking the bwing solution is more ships. My Baron's Space Bus build for example tends to eat em alive when Fel doesn't get 1 shot'd.