The assertion that GW have any business sense left at all is pretty hilarious, honestly.

I'd bet good money that in five years we'll be playing Warhammer 40,000 as produced by Hasbro Inc.

I'm skeptical that this is the case, given the fairly recent release of the (expensive-to-produce, incredibly ill-conceived) Dreadfleet . Not to mention that if they had done the math as carefully as you state, their sales shouldn't be in decline- at least not as much as they apparently are.

Limited run products, assuming the company can accurately gauge how much product they can sell and at what price, are both very safe economically, and a good test bed for future product and/or production methods.

The policy of limited run Specialist Games was supposedly brought about by the failure of Epic3e. I can't vouch for its accuracy, but rumour is Epic3e ended up costing more money than it was generating.

I wasn't actually aware that Dreadfleet had tanked. Based on the old farts I know and their endless moaning about the loss of Man O' War (a similar game), I would have guessed Dreadfleet would have been about as successful as it could have been.

I think the sad fact is that this isn't a matter of GW being 'unable to recognise' a potential source of profit so much as GW having carefully done the math and realised they were wasting money on less popular products. Which is a shame, as those products were often (IMO) much better than their main releases.

I'm skeptical that this is the case, given the fairly recent release of the (expensive-to-produce, incredibly ill-conceived) Dreadfleet . Not to mention that if they had done the math as carefully as you state, their sales shouldn't be in decline- at least not as much as they apparently are.

Offshoot games are expensive to produce, but Mordheim and Necromunda were profitable; more importantly, they lured people into trying GW 's 'big two'. There's no 'gateway' today- it's either " Fork over a thousand bucks for the basics " or " Find another game ". Increasingly the latter.

As Simsum said, limited run products are a lot less risky and can be very successful (see Space Hulk). The cost and profit dynamics are different than for a game which require sales of lots of follow-up products.

As for Mordheim and Necromunda, yes, they were profitable, but that doesn't mean they were profitable enough. A company like GW needs to choose where to invest its cash. Every pound they spent on Necromunda was a pound they could have spent on 40k - and pounds spent on 40k returned more for the investment.

I also don't agree that Necromunda and Mordheim were 'gateway' games. I think the main customers for those games were people who already played 40k or WFB. Their purpose was not to get new players into the hobby, but to keep existing customers who were looking for something new.

I also don't agree that Necromunda and Mordheim were 'gateway' games. I think the main customers for those games were people who already played 40k or WFB. Their purpose was not to get new players into the hobby, but to keep existing customers who were looking for something new.

Because I could easily seen them as gateways, but only if promoted and handled right, not if left to stagnate in obscurity, which GW did (here atleast) for years before shutting down those lines.

I also don't agree that Necromunda and Mordheim were 'gateway' games. I think the main customers for those games were people who already played 40k or WFB. Their purpose was not to get new players into the hobby, but to keep existing customers who were looking for something new.

Did this change over the lives of the games though?

Because I could easily seen them as gateways, but only if promoted and handled right, not if left to stagnate in obscurity, which GW did (here atleast) for years before shutting down those lines.

They were promoted the same way the other games were. But when you get right down to it, 40k and WFB were the gateway games - the recognisable brands, the ones that you get hit with when you walk in the store. I think very few people would have started with one of the specialist games and then moved on to the other ones.

Necromunda or Mordheim could have been gateway games, had GW made an effort to get them sold in regular game stores (sort of like Heroquest and Space Crusade - now those were gateway games). But had that been their purpose, I think they would have been simpler games, designed to be very easy to learn and quick to play. Instead they were more complicated than the regular games. They were for people who wanted something more interesting than two armies beating the crap out of each other.

Necromunda and Mordheim were gateway games for me - they were the first GW games I bought, and then I branched out into the Big Two. My experience probably isn't the rule , but I suspect there was some measurable uptick in WFB/40K sales as a result of a lower-cost option being available.

Of course, we also have to acknowledge the occasional mis-steps like Gorkamorka , which (despite having it's fans) did poorly. The Afterward of the Gorkamorka rulebook contains a statement that it was intended to be the first of a whole line of Necromunda spin-offs, but I assume poor sales derailed that plan...

Necromunda and Mordheim were gateway games for me - they were the first GW games I bought, and then I branched out into the Big Two. My experience probably isn't the rule , but I suspect there was some measurable uptick in WFB/40K sales as a result of a lower-cost option being available.

Almost assuredly, but that up-tick probably wasn't worth the cost. It's a pity, because I think most of GW's best work was in those games.

Consider the amount of development games like Necromunda or Mordheim need. They effectively required whole new settings, factions, art work and rule systems - which then stop being used after a few years. It's not just that the sales would be less than the big two games, but that much of the work put into it would be rendered useless once the game is no longer in print. Most of the customers in a GW store today will never have even heard of House Cawdor, or know that Marienburger warbands had more money than God Handrich, but almost assuredly know who the Necrons or Ogre Hordes are. An investment in 40k is an investment in a long term, core brand, investment in a specialist game has a much lower return.

The same thing happened to Dark Heresy and WFRP, as it happens. GW needed to tighten up their budget, so they axed BI, despite the fact that it was a profitable operation. Dark Heresy was clearly a game that had a lot of interest, yet the company had better things to spend its money on. Thankfully FFG were willing to licence it - a win-win for GW.

I feel that an Ork Roleplaying Game might be able to succeed. It'll also provide new material for the previous Roleplaying games. Rogue Trader, Only War and Deathwatch would perticularly benefit from Ork stuff.

I feel that an Ork Roleplaying Game might be able to succeed. It'll also provide new material for the previous Roleplaying games. Rogue Trader, Only War and Deathwatch would perticularly benefit from Ork stuff.

The problem with an Ork RPG is that it's a tad... niche. I don't think it would have the same broad appeal as a human-centric game would, so it wouldn't be worth creating a whole new game for it.