I was putting a list together. It was basically 4 TIE Intercpetors each with a stealth device. Then I realized that I couldn't play that list until I bought another Firespray.

I have a lot of ships 3 or 4 of most ship, 8 TIE Fighters, 1 Shuttle, YT-1300, Firespray and HWK. I feel like I have been pretty willing to support FFG with my money. And I might eventually buy another Firespray. From what I see two Firesprays are a good thing. However, I don't want to have to buy another Firespray just to get more stealth devices.

For that matter I don't want to buy more HWK for more recon-spec.

For the most part ships come with upgrades that you would want to put on them, but not always. And it is annoying that I might have to buy another ship, that I might not want, just for the cards that come with it.

Yes, I will buy another Firespray, but what if I hated Firesprays?

Proxy the card. But know that if you plan on doing a real tournament, then your going to need the card. I think its in the rules for that. I know, if they (FFG) would just sell the cards (for a cost) I think they would make some money off of those that want the card and not the model....Looking at you Shuttle! (I got 2 so you can't hate)

Miniatures Market has them for 20 bucks... get one there.. and I'll buy it from you.. sans Stealth cards.. for, say.. 15, and ship it to me.. I'll pay for that too.. how about that.. if you're in the US, that would be inexpensive..

That is the single biggest issue with X-Wing IMO. The fact that some cards only come with some ships.

The fact that you get 2 of them with the Firespray makes it a bit better... But I really shouldn't have to buy 1 of them, let alone 2 just because I wanted a given card.

What if I only want to collect Rebel ships, and only play Rebel lists? I'm excluded from a lot of options because I won't buy a Lambada Shuttle or Tie Advanced.

On the other side, you have to have 4 A-Wings if you want 4 Push the Limit cards, but what if you only want to play Imps?

Now if you don't mind using proxies this isn't an issue. But it is if you want to play a tourney. I'd love to see FFG come out with card packs, 2-4 of all the various upgrades, droids, secondary weapons, ect... perhaps even the pilots. Then package them per wave or something.

I agree with the idea of card sets, but then no one buys ships for cards anymore, and they lose sales.. seems they are always worried about over production, this is why they run out of ships before demand has played out..

TBH if you have friends this is never an issue.. For casual play you just tell your opponent you are using Stealth Devices and for tournament just borrow cards. That's what we do.

It's not such a big deal, but it buggs me. I mean, I kinda want anther Firespray, but what if I didn't. I am not really looking for a a solution, just a place to rant.

But if I were a straight Rebel Player this would make me even madder. How do you get the gunner, stealth device, or HLC cards?

Rant Rant Rant!

Lucky for you 2 will be packaged with the upcoming Imperial aces release! 2 interceptor repaints and some awesome cards.

I would buy a few extra packs of upgrade cards to supplement what i have (need more PTL and Sensor Jammers).

I would also love to see some more pilot cards come out as well, maybe a rebel and imperial pack that contains a new pilot for each class of ship. Which could be packaged per wave or what ever...

But as it is i just play with friends and we proxy cards for the mean time. (as i am not aware of any tournaments in NZ)

Lucky for you 2 will be packaged with the upcoming Imperial aces release! 2 interceptor repaints and some awesome cards.

I didn't know that. I will definitely be getting that.

Dang, now I have to change my rant to "Why hasn't the Imperial Aces been released yet! Rant, Rant, Rant"

Lucky for you 2 will be packaged with the upcoming Imperial aces release! 2 interceptor repaints and some awesome cards.

Yes but what if someone doesn't want to buy the Imperial Aces pack?

That's the whole problem with the system FFG set up, some people are forced to buy models I don't want, for the sake of cards they do want.

Clearly part of the idea was to sell more ships. How many X-Wing or Tie Fighter expansion packs do you think they would of sold if Wedge and Howlrunner were included in the core set? Not nearly as many, so I understand the marketing behind it.

But perhaps now is the time to start thinking about a Wave 1 pack, with 1 of each pilot and 2-4 of each other card from Wave 1. At this point I don't think they'd see a huge hit in sales of Wave 1 ships if they offered that.

I'll gladly join you in ranting about that!

Spoilers are up and it looks awesome. We've been waiting for 4 months for it already now.

I would also love a card pack for each ship type. It would be doubly awesome if it came with a new pilot too. One new pilot AND one ship specific upgrade... Probably would sell well and not disturb ship production and availability. To for broke...add a scenario too!

What I would love the most is, re-releases of ships, with new pilots and access to more of those hard to get cards. Basically more like Imperial Aces.

Probably would sell well and not disturb ship production and availability.

Sure... the trick is putting enough cards and other stuff into a pack to make them worth publishing. A Y-Wing pack with 8 cards would only sell for what $2-3? I wouldn't pay more then that...

What I think would work better is some sort of Wave X supplement pack.

All the pilots, upgrades, ect... from that wave. Perhaps even a new pilot per ship, and/or alt-art on some of the cards. On top of that, a booklet of say 2-4 new missions. Sell that for $10-15 and I'd bet people would be lining up to hand over their cash.

Then they could do the same for Wave 2, Wave 3, ect... when they get to the point that the 'shelf life' of a given wave has past they could release a supplement pack for it, and see little if any loss of sales for the models.

I would also love a card pack for each ship type.

I would buy a few extra packs of upgrade cards to supplement what i have

I agree with the idea of card sets

I'd love to see FFG come out with card packs, 2-4 of all the various upgrades, droids, secondary weapons, ect... perhaps even the pilots.

I think they would make some money off of those that want the card and not the model....Looking at you Shuttle! (I got 2 so you can't hate)

This.

I also would LOVE to see ship-specific card packs. I feel like there would be quite a bit of profit from it as well. It costs, what? $2 for a deck of "fancy" playing cards? That is what WE pay... not what it would cost to print them. Also, that is the cost for a full deck of playing cards... they would only have to put 5-10 in the package, sell them for $5, and would make a HEFTY profit.

Keep in mind, that I am not a MTG player. I've never been really into straight card games.

But if they came out with a RANDOM card package... I would be all over that. The idea of getting something that I was NOT expecting (for a few dollars) has always been pretty fun to me. (Lego Minifigures? Anyone?)

Ship Specific Card Packs (Pilots, Upgrades, weapons),

Random Pilot packs (Random only-released-through-buying-this-pack pilots),

Random Upgrade Packs, (same as pilot only upgrades),

Random Weapon Packs (Yes)

a booklet of say 2-4 new missions. Sell that for $10-15 and I'd bet people would be lining up to hand over their cash.

This... too... I need it....

TBH if you have friends this is never an issue.. For casual play you just tell your opponent you are using Stealth Devices and for tournament just borrow cards. That's what we do.

That's the problem. I don't have friends. I'm too much of a jerk. Hey, I'm trying. I used to be too much of an ass.

From the company's point of view though, selling them with the models is better. If you went with your suggestion of selling all the cards from wave one, there would be little to no demand for wave one ships. This would then cause stock issues and make it more difficult for new players to get into the game because they couldn't get some of the ships that they want. From the company's perspective, keeping it the same keeps stock rolling over and makes it easier for them to get new customers.

Maybe in the future, this situation might change, but for the time being, I'd say it would be best for them to leave it as is.

This.

I also would LOVE to see ship-specific card packs. I feel like there would be quite a bit of profit from it as well. It costs, what? $2 for a deck of "fancy" playing cards? That is what WE pay... not what it would cost to print them. Also, that is the cost for a full deck of playing cards... they would only have to put 5-10 in the package, sell them for $5, and would make a HEFTY profit.

Keep in mind, that I am not a MTG player. I've never been really into straight card games.

But if they came out with a RANDOM card package... I would be all over that. The idea of getting something that I was NOT expecting (for a few dollars) has always been pretty fun to me. (Lego Minifigures? Anyone?)

If I could unlike a post to notify that this is a terrible idea I would. RANDOM CARD PACKS!!! YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING!

Probably would sell well and not disturb ship production and availability.

Sure... the trick is putting enough cards and other stuff into a pack to make them worth publishing. A Y-Wing pack with 8 cards would only sell for what $2-3? I wouldn't pay more then that...

What I think would work better is some sort of Wave X supplement pack.

All the pilots, upgrades, ect... from that wave. Perhaps even a new pilot per ship, and/or alt-art on some of the cards. On top of that, a booklet of say 2-4 new missions. Sell that for $10-15 and I'd bet people would be lining up to hand over their cash.

Then they could do the same for Wave 2, Wave 3, ect... when they get to the point that the 'shelf life' of a given wave has past they could release a supplement pack for it, and see little if any loss of sales for the models.

Again... All ship upgrade cards, and a new pilot card, and a ship specific modification/upgrade... I would say that would sell for $6.99 or so. If they added a ship specific mission add another dollar... ship specific mission book... $2... Make a lot of profit.

I could see FFG's Print on Demand system being a good outlet for (non-random) card packs. A pack of Modification cards, a pack of Droid and Crew cards, Cannon/Turret cards, etc.

But really it's more about using them for tournaments, store events, and just having the enjoyment of physical cards. Otherwise it's simple to write down their stats from the X-Wing Miniatures wiki onto an index card. Heck, I've already played a game against a friend using the Imperial Aces pilots from FFG's latest preview.

From the company's point of view though, selling them with the models is better. If you went with your suggestion of selling all the cards from wave one, there would be little to no demand for wave one ships. This would then cause stock issues and make it more difficult for new players to get into the game because they couldn't get some of the ships that they want. From the company's perspective, keeping it the same keeps stock rolling over and makes it easier for them to get new customers.

Maybe in the future, this situation might change, but for the time being, I'd say it would be best for them to leave it as is.

I buy ship models in spite of the cards, not because of them. Believe it or not, people buy the figs and have no intention of playing the game, they play other games (I use them in Full Thrust, Starmada, and Squadron Strike, plus my own homebrew rules). I'm certainly not alone. Further, the requirement that I cannot use proxies puts a financial burden on me (not really, but to those without discretionary income...). I went down this road with M:TG, I'm not going to do it again. From a longevity standpoint, I'm not convinced that making the game card-driven was a good idea. I've said it before, I'll say it again. From a game design standpoint, this makes the game much more restrictive than it should be, while also making it more likely that the game breaks when they try to add new waves with new abilities. But it's a moot point, they opted for the way they've done it, so we make do.

The money is in the figs, not the cards. Nobody needs 4 Darth Vaders. The ideal solution would be to let people print the cards as needed. After that, sell singles directly. Or maybe 4-packs. Personally, I would not be interested in a Wave pack. I'm already tired of buying stuff that I don't want just so I can get something that I do want. The moment they go to randomized not only am I done with this game, but I won't ever go near FFG again.

But if they came out with a RANDOM card package... I would be all over that. The idea of getting something that I was NOT expecting (for a few dollars) has always been pretty fun to me. (Lego Minifigures? Anyone?)

If I could unlike a post to notify that this is a terrible idea I would. RANDOM CARD PACKS!!! YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING!

Yikes. Okay then. Apparently, I wasn't specific enough. What I should have typed was...

If they came out with a RANDOM card package AS WELL... I would be all over that. The idea of getting something that I was NOT expecting (for a few dollars) has always been pretty fun to me.

I would totally buy extra cards for the ships I have.

But I would also enjoy getting some random upgrade/weapons cards that I haven't seen before. I think it's fun. (possibly because I don't yet know every pilot, upgrade, or weapon in this game yet.

From the company's point of view though, selling them with the models is better. If you went with your suggestion of selling all the cards from wave one, there would be little to no demand for wave one ships. This would then cause stock issues and make it more difficult for new players to get into the game because they couldn't get some of the ships that they want. From the company's perspective, keeping it the same keeps stock rolling over and makes it easier for them to get new customers.

Maybe in the future, this situation might change, but for the time being, I'd say it would be best for them to leave it as is.

I buy ship models in spite of the cards, not because of them. Believe it or not, people buy the figs and have no intention of playing the game, they play other games (I use them in Full Thrust, Starmada, and Squadron Strike, plus my own homebrew rules). I'm certainly not alone. Further, the requirement that I cannot use proxies puts a financial burden on me (not really, but to those without discretionary income...). I went down this road with M:TG, I'm not going to do it again. From a longevity standpoint, I'm not convinced that making the game card-driven was a good idea. I've said it before, I'll say it again. From a game design standpoint, this makes the game much more restrictive than it should be, while also making it more likely that the game breaks when they try to add new waves with new abilities. But it's a moot point, they opted for the way they've done it, so we make do.

The money is in the figs, not the cards. Nobody needs 4 Darth Vaders. The ideal solution would be to let people print the cards as needed. After that, sell singles directly. Or maybe 4-packs. Personally, I would not be interested in a Wave pack. I'm already tired of buying stuff that I don't want just so I can get something that I do want. The moment they go to randomized not only am I done with this game, but I won't ever go near FFG again.

I buy them for the figs too. Ideally I want to get at least two of everything and four copies of most ships. As such it doesn't bother me personally much about the card situation because if I needed the cards, I'd just go and buy the figs as I was going to anyhow at some stage. For friendlies you don't have to and this issue really only affects tournament players who let's be honest are going to buy lots of ships so that they can field different lists using the models.

I personally think the card system works pretty well. It means players don't have to buy a rule book every time a new wave is released in addition to the ships. It makes it harder to fix issues with older stuff but you can get creative with even that (Imperial Aces), so I think they are managing it well. And is it really such an issue that you get extra copies of a piece of cardboard that you don't need more than one of (Darth Vader)?

From the company's point of view though, selling them with the models is better. If you went with your suggestion of selling all the cards from wave one, there would be little to no demand for wave one ships. This would then cause stock issues and make it more difficult for new players to get into the game because they couldn't get some of the ships that they want. From the company's perspective, keeping it the same keeps stock rolling over and makes it easier for them to get new customers.

Maybe in the future, this situation might change, but for the time being, I'd say it would be best for them to leave it as is.

I buy ship models in spite of the cards, not because of them. Believe it or not, people buy the figs and have no intention of playing the game, they play other games (I use them in Full Thrust, Starmada, and Squadron Strike, plus my own homebrew rules). I'm certainly not alone. Further, the requirement that I cannot use proxies puts a financial burden on me (not really, but to those without discretionary income...). I went down this road with M:TG, I'm not going to do it again. From a longevity standpoint, I'm not convinced that making the game card-driven was a good idea. I've said it before, I'll say it again. From a game design standpoint, this makes the game much more restrictive than it should be, while also making it more likely that the game breaks when they try to add new waves with new abilities. But it's a moot point, they opted for the way they've done it, so we make do.

The money is in the figs, not the cards. Nobody needs 4 Darth Vaders. The ideal solution would be to let people print the cards as needed. After that, sell singles directly. Or maybe 4-packs. Personally, I would not be interested in a Wave pack. I'm already tired of buying stuff that I don't want just so I can get something that I do want. The moment they go to randomized not only am I done with this game, but I won't ever go near FFG again.

I buy them for the figs too. Ideally I want to get at least two of everything and four copies of most ships. As such it doesn't bother me personally much about the card situation because if I needed the cards, I'd just go and buy the figs as I was going to anyhow at some stage. For friendlies you don't have to and this issue really only affects tournament players who let's be honest are going to buy lots of ships so that they can field different lists using the models.

I personally think the card system works pretty well. It means players don't have to buy a rule book every time a new wave is released in addition to the ships. It makes it harder to fix issues with older stuff but you can get creative with even that (Imperial Aces), so I think they are managing it well. And is it really such an issue that you get extra copies of a piece of cardboard that you don't need more than one of (Darth Vader)?

It's the converse, actually. I have to buy multiple copies of a ship I do not want (HWK) to get cards that I do want.

The card system works *now* but I guarantee you it'll cause problems later. Putting out new rulebooks every time there's a new fig or new faction would be the Games Workshop route, which is really, really bad. A better solution would have been to figure out what all the special rules are to begin with, cost them accordingly, and put them all in a single book. Because it's really EPT that's we're talking about. Ship stats were easy enough to cost. Let players create pilots from the rules. Sell "named" pilots as individual cards. These "named" pilots are discounted a couple points below what they would be if you made them yourself. That's why they're legends.

You still have just the one rulebook. You still put out new ships without adversely affecting the balance. You have a system that is much more flexible in both pilot creation and pairing pilots with ships. And you still get to sell pilot cards (and fighter upgrade) cards.