Perfect if you hate your money and want to get rid of it as fast as possible. Extremely overpriced.

I think you (and a lot of people) misunderstand what kickstarter is. It is not a preorder service, it is not an online retailer. When you back something you are more like a miniature (no pun intended) venture capitalist. You are not and should not have the thought that you are getting a deal, instead you are backing an idea so they can get off the ground.

Also, when you back something you are NOT guarenteed to get it or have it be successful. There is a risk. If you can't afford the loss, don't do it. It's like going to vegas.. take only what you can afford to lose.

Presales make all the difference to a start up. Knowing that they will have sales removes all the risk. It doesn't mean its a sustainable business model.... but at least they didn't go bankrupt finding it out. And hey, the fans got what they wanted.

Perfect if you hate your money and want to get rid of it as fast as possible. Extremely overpriced.

I think you (and a lot of people) misunderstand what kickstarter is. It is not a preorder service, it is not an online retailer. When you back something you are more like a miniature (no pun intended) venture capitalist. You are not and should not have the thought that you are getting a deal, instead you are backing an idea so they can get off the ground.

Also, when you back something you are NOT guarenteed to get it or have it be successful. There is a risk. If you can't afford the loss, don't do it. It's like going to vegas.. take only what you can afford to lose.

I'm sorry. What?!?!?! Backing a Kickstarter is not the same as being a venture capitalist, not even on the small scale. A venture capitalist expects to get paid back for his investment with interest. I don't expect it to be like Amazon and get 30% off the MSRP to get something, but what you're paying for isn't to fully fund the R&D by one's self. Instead all the backers are cumulatively showing that there is interest in the item. Why, because the price of the products should already cover the cost of R&D and printing.

The kickstarters I've seen and backed have all had prices for the rewards that sat in the normal range for similar products. A boardgame that is $500 for the basic game isn't going to get backed when most are $30 - $80 for something similar. A miniature for $30 is not the same as one for even $8 that others produce. If you're going to put up a kickstarter, then the thing you're wanting to do should be a lot further along already and now you're wanting to see if it should be moved to the final stage. The amount asked for in total for the KS to fund it should reflect that. Look at the Reaper Bones KS. They asked for enough that would have covered the cost of building those new molds for the limited figures they offered (and then added more as stretch goals), but the final cost to the people backing them wasn't much more than what it would have cost to buy them retail, you just got early access.

Is it exactly like being a venture capitalist? No. But it is an apt comparison. You put money down to help fund a project. You expect a return, but it is not 100% guarenteed. You are taking a risk. A kickstarter backer being compared to a venture capitolist is, while not perfect, is the best analogy I can think of. Perhaps you can contribute a better analogy in a constructive fashion instead of a knee-jerk 'you're wrong and stupid' response.

As for the cost, reaper is a established company. The bones line was to purchase the molds, if I'm not mistaken, which once they have they can produce significant quantity for little cost to th and thus high margin, paying for the mold.

The project in question is for done on a priny on demand type scheme with a customized miniature. Reapers are mass produced. There are significant cost differences between the two types of product, not to mention the size of the company. Reaper is well known and thus more people will hear about it and consider it less of a gamble.

Is it exactly like being a venture capitalist? No. But it is an apt comparison.

No, it is not. You were told exactly why. Venture capitalists are in it for a profit. It is not even remotely like venture capitalism.

The price per model is stupid high. It has nothing to do with the fact that they aren't Reaper, it has to do with the fact that they want to make money off dumb people.

I also asked for a better analogy as well. Union can you provide that? You seem to be smarter than, at least everyone who backed this (no, I am not a backer).

I think it is poor taste to call the backers dumb. Perhaps they have more disposable income than you or I.

If reaper offers customized miniatures at a better price and quality please let me know. Or if anyone else does this, I would like to know. If you don't find value, fine, but don't be prejudiced and arrogant by calling people dumb.

It is comparable to fantasy flight's detailed x-wing minatures is it not?

$20 to $30 per figure seems to me higher than the closest-in-size-but-still-larger FFG X-Wing miniatures, which I already feel are overpriced. When you further consider that the (cheaper) X-Wing minis are provided painted and these aren't, I think the comparison breaks down further.

I also asked for a better analogy as well.

I think these are best considered as a sort of boutique product, priced higher than "comparable" products but offering some sort of unique or at least unusual quality that the comparables don't offer. In this case that quality would be customization, which I'm not aware of being generally available in the realm of gaming miniatures. The question then becomes whether there exists enough demand for customized gaming miniatures at this price point to support this is as an ongoing concern.

I tend to think that this sort of service will be more about finally getting the perfect miniature for someone's favorite player character than it would be about getting a selection of minis for generic use or army building. In other words, I don't know that many individual customers are going to want more than a few of these. I can imagine a hard core D&D gamer wanting a mini of his PC and a mounted version, which sort of doubles or even triples his order. And I can see a play group going in together to get figures for their whole party printed up, too, which also potentially increases the number of orders.

There was a time I would have liked custom minis for a few of my PCs, but my mini-painting days are generally behind me and I haven't felt super attached to a PC in a while, either. Plus, I have a hard time imagining dropping $30 on one 28 mm miniature even if it was the perfect representation of my guy. So I'm pretty clearly not the target audience for this.

All that said, I can easily imagine being willing to pay "normal" minis prices for some of the sample minis they show on the Kickstarter page. I wonder if it would be practical for them to mass produce non-custom figures.

I also asked for a better analogy as well. Union can you provide that? You seem to be smarter than, at least everyone who backed this (no, I am not a backer).

I think it is poor taste to call the backers dumb. Perhaps they have more disposable income than you or I.

If reaper offers customized miniatures at a better price and quality please let me know. Or if anyone else does this, I would like to know. If you don't find value, fine, but don't be prejudiced and arrogant by calling people dumb.

Barnum and Bailey is the analogy.

This took 2 seconds with Google www.shapeways.com/ you can get literally anything you want for less than half the price. By the time the kickstarter actually ships you could probably get the exact same thing for 1/10 the price.

This took 2 seconds with Google www.shapeways.com/ you can get literally anything you want for less than half the price. By the time the kickstarter actually ships you could probably get the exact same thing for 1/10 the price.

I get the impression that what the Kickstarter is offering requires a bit less technical and design proficiency that does getting "literally anything you want." For someone like me who lacks technical and design proficiency, that's worth some premium, though probably not $20 to $30 per 28 mm figure.

I also asked for a better analogy as well. Union can you provide that? You seem to be smarter than, at least everyone who backed this (no, I am not a backer).

I think it is poor taste to call the backers dumb. Perhaps they have more disposable income than you or I.

If reaper offers customized miniatures at a better price and quality please let me know. Or if anyone else does this, I would like to know. If you don't find value, fine, but don't be prejudiced and arrogant by calling people dumb.

Barnum and Bailey is the analogy.

This took 2 seconds with Google www.shapeways.com/ you can get literally anything you want for less than half the price. By the time the kickstarter actually ships you could probably get the exact same thing for 1/10 the price.

Those services and others were pointed out back on page 1

Is it exactly like being a venture capitalist? No. But it is an apt comparison.

No, it is not. You were told exactly why. Venture capitalists are in it for a profit. It is not even remotely like venture capitalism.

The price per model is stupid high. It has nothing to do with the fact that they aren't Reaper, it has to do with the fact that they want to make money off dumb people.

Dude... I think you're just trolling.

You do understand that this is exactly like being a venture capitalist. 100% all the way.

In this case the profit for the venture capitalist is custom miniatures. These miniatures are priceless at this time as they are currently unavailable. I am unaware if cash or money are some how the definition of profit, although they are most certainly the norm.

As for price... that is a very subjective thing. I'm not sure how you reached that conclusion. Perhaps you're just stupid poor? I mean I designed 300 square feet of my house for gaming and bought a $5000 table to play on. But then I consult for >$150 an hour, and this is just pocket change.

I mean I designed 300 square feet of my house for gaming and bought a $5000 table to play on.

Presumably, though, that $5k table (super classy bragging on the price of purchases and hourly rate, by the way, presumably your consulting isn't on the topic of how not to sound nouveau riche) offers features significantly beyond those provided by a $100 folding banquet table. I'm really not sure that an unpainted 28 mm figure, even customized, offers features sufficiently beyond a $5 to $10 unpainted miniature.

Many of those services require very expensive software, if I were to be doing it myself. I can't afford $3000+ software not to mention the rig to run it.

I mean I designed 300 square feet of my house for gaming and bought a $5000 table to play on.

Presumably, though, that $5k table (super classy bragging on the price of purchases and hourly rate, by the way, presumably your consulting isn't on the topic of how not to sound nouveau riche) offers features significantly beyond those provided by a $100 folding banquet table. I'm really not sure that an unpainted 28 mm figure, even customized, offers features sufficiently beyond a $5 to $10 unpainted miniature.

He's trolled me before, and accused me of not somehow being old school. And I wasn't aiming for 'classy' behavior. And I'm no where near the top end of money burning geek.

The point is that the price debatable. As of this post 2,562 people believe that $30 a mini isn't too much.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/heroforge/customizable-3d-printed-tabletop-miniatures

The correct number for prices on Shapeways is that they are half the cost of what you'd pay to this start up. They are afterall the manufacturers of these miniatures. (Typically the cost goes up hugely for high resolution prints because they take so long.)

As for Shapeways I'm pretty sure you won't find anything you want. (The dice are pretty cool though.) I've been following this for 5+ years now. If I could convert files, I'd buy the printer the next day. This is the current barrier between hobbyist ( http://www.daz3d.com/ ) and solid works expert. Everything else in between appears to be pretty hokey.

Many of those services require very expensive software, if I were to be doing it myself. I can't afford $3000+ software not to mention the rig to run it.

Plus the skill / talent to do anything with it once you've gotten ahold of the software and the hardware, which is just as great an impediment for me. From what I saw on the Kickstarter video they've done the vast majority of the design work. The customer's input is more like choosing elements from a menu. That is almost certainly more than enough "input" from me if I were going to try this out. Much more than that and I'd end up ruining the mini!

Daz Studio is free for rendering;

http://www.daz3d.com/new-releases

And the 3D models are very affordable;

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/hfs-more-than-human-cybernetic-agent/102422

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/hfs-more-than-human-g2-expansion/102085

It just needs to get married to 3D printing.

The point is that the price debatable. As of this post 2,562 people believe that $30 a mini isn't too much.

Absolutely the price is debatable. I'm really not sure that at a time I was playing a lot more, playing a more consistent campaign so that I was getting attached to my PCs and painting miniatures regularly that I wouldn't have believed that $30 wasn't too much. At this point, though it seems too much.

Granted that there are 2,500 people who believe that $30 mini doesn't cost too much. (In fact, since this is a Kickstarter, they believe it's worth $30 for the chance to maybe get that $30 mini, because it's not as if no one has ever collected funds through Kickstarter and then failed to fulfill). I'd venture that there are a lot more out there than that who are in that category. The Kickstarter isn't all that far along, so I expect at least some growth in the number of buyers, and I pretty regularly run into already closed Kickstarters that I would have happily funded if I'd "met" them in time, and I can't imagine I'm unusual in that respect.

My question, though, is will this be the sort of product/service that will largely attract repeat business? I can imagine being willing to drop $30 on the perfect mini for my favorite PC. I have a harder time imagining myself, even in my mini-friendliest days, being willing to drop $30 on a mini for just any old PC. For this to remain viable long-term, then, there either needs to be a lot more people willing to pay $30 for one mini or some smaller population willing to pay $30 per mini several times. That question of longevity may be a reason to go ahead and order through the Kickstarter if you're on the fence.

He's trolled me before, and accused me of not somehow being old school. And I wasn't aiming for 'classy' behavior. And I'm no where near the top end of money burning geek.

My question, though, is will this be the sort of product/service that will largely attract repeat business? I can imagine being willing to drop $30 on the perfect mini for my favorite PC. I have a harder time imagining myself, even in my mini-friendliest days, being willing to drop $30 on a mini for just any old PC. For this to remain viable long-term, then, there either needs to be a lot more people willing to pay $30 for one mini or some smaller population willing to pay $30 per mini several times. That question of longevity may be a reason to go ahead and order through the Kickstarter if you're on the fence.

Many of those services require very expensive software, if I were to be doing it myself. I can't afford $3000+ software not to mention the rig to run it.

Blender is free and can create .obj files used by those sites. Daz is free. Plenty of Free/Opensource software for doing these various tasks.

Many of those services require very expensive software, if I were to be doing it myself. I can't afford $3000+ software not to mention the rig to run it.

Blender is free and can create .obj files used by those sites. Daz is free. Plenty of Free/Opensource software for doing these various tasks.

Yes, and even if you're someone that can't modify a mesh themselves, it's still cheaper to pay an artist to make a model that is EXACTLY what you want rather than what you get from the kickstarter which is just changeing a pose from a small selection of pre-made models.

Yes, and even if you're someone that can't modify a mesh themselves, it's still cheaper to pay an artist to make a model that is EXACTLY what you want rather than what you get from the kickstarter which is just changeing a pose from a small selection of pre-made models.

supercilious...

Artists aren't cheap. Go get a quote for $30 for a full 3D model. Guy, posed with armor and sword. See what they say to $30. (I think that works out to $0.30 per hour for the work...)

The software may be free. Heck, i use wings3d which is free and pretty basic but does the job. But the hardware is a different matter. A computer with the memory and procesing power to make a quality character miniature is beyond the reach of many including myself and a good enough quality printer for miniature making starts at around 3000 buckaroos. At least for now. That is why i still use Shapeways.

I'd love to do it from home but the initial outlay is certainly beyond my reach. The glut of DIY home printers that has sprung up is fine and will, probably pretty soon,lead to affordable ones that can do the job, but that day has not come just yet.

And then as someone said there is the matter of modelling skill. I can make ships well enough but i do not have the skils to make a convincing character mini.

The hardware to create a model for this has been around for 15 years or more. The programs I have were used on Babylon 5 and Titanic back in the mid-90s. Remember these figures are only 28mm tall. You don't need to have every wrinkle and fold in the skin. 100,000 polys or less should capture the level of detail for such a small model and be well inside the capability of even the weakest of systems that can be bought today.

Hey there, folks! I was poking around for folks who might be interested in our Kickstarter and I was directed from a Deadlands message board to you guys here! It is always good to find people's unprompted feedback.

If anyone is interested or hasn't heard about it, we are looking to build a service which will allow people to design a mini from a library of 3D parts (armor pieces, weapons, characteristics like race, hair, face, etc.) and have them 3D printed. The latest news is that we've begun adding lots of exciting new genre stretch goals. We've already hit sci-fi, and are working towards adding wild west themed parts! The idea is that we want to appeal to as many genres as possible. And this lets us hit up those overlaps between genre too (space western, sci-fi fantasy, etc)! Anyway, if anyone has any new thoughts or questions on the whole shebang, I'd love to hear them!

For those who missed it, here's the link: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/heroforge/customizable-3d-printed-tabletop-miniatures

What would be the possibly be like for alien humanoid species. Perhaps for example a bothan from star wars look a like with a sci fi blaster rifle.

Hey there! We're definitely going to steer very clear of any licensed properties that we don't have the rights to.

Yes I know that, I was not very clear. I meant creating generic humanoid alien creatures like cat people, dog people, lion people weird stuff like that. I used bothans as an example as they are kind of like a dog head on a human body. I would imagine your artist could create intresting looking sci fi creatures to use for any kind of sci fi game.

Hey there, folks! I was poking around for folks who might be interested in our Kickstarter and I was directed from a Deadlands message board to you guys here! It is always good to find people's unprompted feedback.

If anyone is interested or hasn't heard about it, we are looking to build a service which will allow people to design a mini from a library of 3D parts (armor pieces, weapons, characteristics like race, hair, face, etc.) and have them 3D printed. The latest news is that we've begun adding lots of exciting new genre stretch goals. We've already hit sci-fi, and are working towards adding wild west themed parts! The idea is that we want to appeal to as many genres as possible. And this lets us hit up those overlaps between genre too (space western, sci-fi fantasy, etc)! Anyway, if anyone has any new thoughts or questions on the whole shebang, I'd love to hear them!

For those who missed it, here's the link: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/heroforge/customizable-3d-printed-tabletop-miniatures

What would be the possibly be like for alien humanoid species. Perhaps for example a bothan from star wars look a like with a sci fi blaster rifle.

Hey there! We're definitely going to steer very clear of any licensed properties that we don't have the rights to.

Yes I know that, I was not very clear. I meant creating generic humanoid alien creatures like cat people, dog people, lion people weird stuff like that. I used bothans as an example as they are kind of like a dog head on a human body. I would imagine your artist could create intresting looking sci fi creatures to use for any kind of sci fi game.

Dog people, you say?