How you do that?

Easy...just be sure to get the link with the "Watch" tag in it.

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I suck.

To those that believe some ships DON'T belong in the game:

This ranting and raving about whether or not you approve of a particular ship because it may or may not have appeared in a movie is fairly ridiculous.

Expanded universe or not?

Episodes IV-VI vs. I-III?

It all just throws up one real question: Who forced you to play the game?

To those that believe some ships DON'T belong in the game:

This ranting and raving about whether or not you approve of a particular ship because it may or may not have appeared in a movie is fairly ridiculous.

Expanded universe or not?

Episodes IV-VI vs. I-III?

It all just throws up one real question: Who forced you to play the game?

counter question: who forced you to read those rants?

To those that believe some ships DON'T belong in the game:

This ranting and raving about whether or not you approve of a particular ship because it may or may not have appeared in a movie is fairly ridiculous.

Expanded universe or not?

Episodes IV-VI vs. I-III?

It all just throws up one real question: Who forced you to play the game?

counter question: who forced you to read those rants?

To those that believe some ships DON'T belong in the game:

This ranting and raving about whether or not you approve of a particular ship because it may or may not have appeared in a movie is fairly ridiculous.

Expanded universe or not?

Episodes IV-VI vs. I-III?

It all just throws up one real question: Who forced you to play the game?

counter question: who forced you to read those rants?

I just find it intriguing that people can say they HATE certain aspects of the game, or certain ships because they weren't in their favourite movie. Simple answer: Don't like it - don't play.

I like it - I play it.

I've played a lot of different wargames over the last 30 years or so, and some I have really enjoyed and some have sucked. I still play the ones I enjoy and don't play the ones that sucked. Simple really.

To those that believe some ships DON'T belong in the game:

This ranting and raving about whether or not you approve of a particular ship because it may or may not have appeared in a movie is fairly ridiculous.

Expanded universe or not?

Episodes IV-VI vs. I-III?

It all just throws up one real question: Who forced you to play the game?

counter question: who forced you to read those rants?

I just find it intriguing that people can say they HATE certain aspects of the game, or certain ships because they weren't in their favourite movie. Simple answer: Don't like it - don't play.

I like it - I play it.

I've played a lot of different wargames over the last 30 years or so, and some I have really enjoyed and some have sucked. I still play the ones I enjoy and don't play the ones that sucked. Simple really.

things are seldom black and white, you can criticize or prefer certain aspects of a game/idea/whatever without invalidating the overall concept or ruining the fun for you in this case. It doesn't mean your opinion on a topic does influence the opinion of anyone making a decision, they usually don't - thankfully, but still it is fun to discuss certain topics.

Besides, what are internet forums for if not for arguing about - in great scheme of things - inconsequential stuff?

If people would only voice opinions, when they completely agree with something it would become boring really fast.

counter question: who forced you to read those rants?

While that is true... There is also a point where FFG most likely at least skims over this board. If the only thing they saw in regards to EU ships was "We hate them and won't buy them." I think it's a safe bet that they'd factor that into any decision they make.

So there is a value in making a counter argument to things like that.

But, as has been pointed out.. they don't peruse these boards.. and the mods only step in, it seems, when a big stink happens.. so.. I don't think the hate talk of EU will sway their marketing decisions. I am curious to see what they come out with next, I see all hese speculative threads and chuckle, cause I know they will probably throw us a curve ball and leave us standing, mouth agape, at the plate..

But, as has been pointed out.. they don't peruse these boards..

I've heard people say that FFG doesn't seem to have a presence here. But that's not the same thing as saying they don't look at these boards.

I read in another thread.. wish I could rememebr and link it.. but they are not allowed to read these threads.. someone that lives close to FFG and knows some of them, or spoke to them at the big world tourney, I thought at the time I read it that it was a stupid policy, but I guess they dont pay their employees to surf forums all day to answer our questions and concerns.. so this is all just my memory of a conversation I read here..

Par for the course...

Edit... may have been a thread on another board as well.. sorry.. I'm old and senile.. lol

They are allowed to read, they can't post here.

Still.. seems counter productive to me.. I mean, who best to answer questions on rules.. sure we have some great knowledgeable guys that help the new guys with questions, but wouldn't the guys who had a hand in writing those rules be better.. I feel they need a presence here, and many others do as well.. but such is life I suppose

They already do that through FAQs, directly answering individual questions causes a lot of confusion.

I know I shouldn't get involved but I really feel that this thread is asking a really good set of questions (and had some of the best and most civil interplay I have ever seen on a forum). I think there has been some great stuff said here but I wanted to jump in with a few other points and some additional opinion.

Alright, I am just going to throw this out, FFG doesn't control Star Wars. The fact that FFG still holds the rights to publish Star Wars RPGs and Games after the Disney buy out is actually pretty amazing. Under Lucas the Star Wars IP wasn't controlled very tightly. Toy companies and publishers were allowed to run rampant and for the most part Lucas was cool with it. The EU is a great example of this, since the first comics in the 80's we have started to see the EU turn from a lovely tie in filled with Droid adventures to the insane ramblings of Keven J. Andersons. Now, however, under Disney we have people who are willing to take a cold hard look at the past 30+ years of material. Just as what happend to the Marvel Universe under Disney I think we will see Star Wars go though an intensive house cleaning.

Does this mean the EU is dead? No! Not at all! As long as you have those books on your shelves the adventures of Luke, Han, Leia, R2, and dear old Wedge will live on. Will they be oficial? Nope. Instead we will get new adventures created by people who love Star Wars and who have really taken the time to be critical about their source material. Like it or not, when 2015 rolls around we might be seeing completely new ships for Wave 6-7.

So why won't FFG just go ahead and make some TIE Defenders or E-Wings before then? That one is easy; they have to run it by Disney and LucasFilm first before they release anything. Just because we all know and love the Headhunter doesn't mean that Disney will keep it around. And, sadly, if the keepers of the IP don't want it we don't get it.

"What about the HWK Resv, you handsome devil you?" I hear you say. The HWK occupies a very strange spot, Dark Forces is a major fan favorite and widely considered one of the most successful Star Wars games of all time. Also, the design might have been approved before Disney decided to lock down all extended universe content. I would also note that Disney isn't eager to include anything that might reference content that is created after ROJ.

I wouldn't wait for EU ships or even another faction. Instead I would relish what FFG is doing, adding more options to what we already have. The addition of a bunch of new x-wing pilots will release with the transport and imperial aces will bring new ways to play.

I wouldn't wait for EU ships or even another faction.

FFG has said in the past that they have no intention of doing another faction.

But at this point, if the only thing they release between now and 2015, is repainted version of existing OT ships... I don't know that X-Wing will still be around come 2015.

Yep I think it would have a nail in the coffin, you need new stuff to keep a game fresh

you need new stuff to keep a game fresh

I'm looking forward to the Imp Aces, but lets be honest, I doubt that most people will buy more then 1 box of it. Sure some will buy more, but I'd be on avg it will be around 1 box/person.

There's only so much they can do with repainted ships and new pilots. The B-Wing or Tie Bomber for example really changed the game, opened up a lot of new options and lists to build. More X-Wings even with new and interesting pilots won't have the same impact.

I would also note that Disney isn't eager to include anything that might reference content that is created after ROJ.

I think that's probably what this is all about for Disney. There's a lot of post- Return of the Jedi stuff that you have to throw out if you want to be able to tell new stories in a way that works cinematically. I think the vast (vaaast) majority of Star Wars buffs have never read an X-Wing novel and have no idea what a Yuuzhan Vong might be, and won't be disappointed if the new movies totally ignore them.

I want to see good movies, and the only Star Wars canon that I care about are the long-standing versions of Episodes 4-6 that many of us grew up with or have come to love, before the Special Editions. And I think the vast majority of Star Wars buffs with disposable income would agree with that. So I say slash and burn the EU after ROTJ all you want, if it makes for a better series of movies. The spin-off novels and other stuff will still exist for those who enjoy that sort of thing.

And I think the vast majority of Star Wars buffs with disposable income would agree with that.

Considering how well the various SW novels, comics and games have sold. You're clearly wrong about that. The list of Star Wars novels is extensive, with there being more then 80 listed on the Wiki page.

You don't publish over 80 books if no one is buying them.

There's effectively 2 kinds of SW fans, the ones that enjoyed the movies and that's the end of it, and those who enjoy the universe, play the games, read the books, ect... Most of us who play X-Wing fall in to that second camp, and I'd guess the vast majority of us have at least a passing knowledge of the EU stuff. Most of us know what a Z-95 is, or the YT-2400, or a Tie Defender.

HWK as rules for the game was fine. HWK as fig to explore acceptance of EU was bloody stupid. I've only read about 50 SW novels and spend a few hours a week on Wookiepedia, so I'm not really an expert, and I'd never heard of that thing. In the corporate world, going with the HWK would be an example of compromise between two factions: One side wanted to explore EU feasibility and the other side did not. The side that did not agreed to do it, so long as they got to choose the ship, and they went with just about the most obscure thing they could find. Oh. Now I see. NJO. That explains it. SMH.

There are two problems and they're both points related. If something like the TIE Defender costs 50 pts, so be it. We'll play 100 pts and I'll bring my 8-9 TIE/Ln against your 2 Defenders. And I'll win because this is a dice game and I'm chucking a lot more dice than you are. There's power creep, and then there's whether or not said power creep is actually practical.

And that leads into the next problem: Game size. You're going to continue seeing odd lists as long as the game is officially encouraged to be played at 100 pts. It's best to think of that as a microcosm of a much larger engagement. Start playing with 500, 750, 1000 pts and now you'll see some lists that actually make sense (and will take the whole afternoon to play). I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd sure like to take a full squadron of X, Y, A, B, E & K Wings against 60 TIE/Ln, a squadron of Interceptors and a flight of Defenders and Avengers.

And large games encourage players to buy more models.

Yeah, I'm not sure how you'd physically interact with a board big enough to accomodate all that though. It would be wicked awesome to play, for sure…. kinda makes me think of those tactical boards you see in stuff like BSG where the people move the models around the field in time to what's happening so the commanders can get a visual. Big Ol' Boards and people moving things with long sticks. Now, if this kind of game was 2 vs. 2, that would cut down the play time immensely….

crap, now i'm drooling.

I see a lot of people talking about "official" this and "canon" that and EU and all this jazz… I know I've said this before but I'll say it again here. All Star Wars things are considered canon if they're published at all. That silly man with his 'seal of approval' has made sure of that. So anyone saying that something "isn't Star Wars" is just wrong. It's all Star Wars. It just might not be THEIR Star Wars.

So they can come out with whatever ship they want. They can strap an Ewok hood ornament onto a TIE Interceptor that is itself strapped onto a Lambda shuttle for all I care. The model may look retarded (or… maybe not?) but if I don't like it either for it's mechanic or some other reason then I can vote with my wallet., ther people will do the same, and we all know Sablegryphon will make it work somehow.

I see a lot of people talking about "official" this and "canon" that and EU and all this jazz… I know I've said this before but I'll say it again here. All Star Wars things are considered canon if they're published at all. That silly man with his 'seal of approval' has made sure of that. So anyone saying that something "isn't Star Wars" is just wrong. It's all Star Wars. It just might not be THEIR Star Wars.

So they can come out with whatever ship they want. They can strap an Ewok hood ornament onto a TIE Interceptor that is itself strapped onto a Lambda shuttle for all I care. The model may look retarded (or… maybe not?) but if I don't like it either for it's mechanic or some other reason then I can vote with my wallet., ther people will do the same, and we all know Sablegryphon will make it work somehow.

FYI, using 'retarded' to mean 'stupid' or 'dumb' is generally frowned upon on most civilized forums, and even some of the uncivilized ones.

Considering how well the various SW novels, comics and games have sold. You're clearly wrong about that. The list of Star Wars novels is extensive, with there being more then 80 listed on the Wiki page.

You don't publish over 80 books if no one is buying them.

There's effectively 2 kinds of SW fans, the ones that enjoyed the movies and that's the end of it, and those who enjoy the universe, play the games, read the books, ect... Most of us who play X-Wing fall in to that second camp, and I'd guess the vast majority of us have at least a passing knowledge of the EU stuff. Most of us know what a Z-95 is, or the YT-2400, or a Tie Defender.

I'm not saying the spin-off stuff isn't popular, only that their popularity pales compared to the films. Disney must know that their real audience is not the few million readers of Star Wars novels (it must be less than that for any individual novel or comic or whatever, or they'd all be bestsellers). Their audience is the hundreds of millions of people who have seen at least one of the films. Maintaining continuity with the post-ROTJ expanded universe shouldn't be a priority from either a financial or creative standpoint, since I'm sure it's a relatively small number of fans who will be upset about overridden/retconned material, and an even smaller number who will avoid the new Star Wars stuff if it conflicts with spin-off stuff.

And I think the vast majority of Star Wars buffs with disposable income would agree with that.

Considering how well the various SW novels, comics and games have sold. You're clearly wrong about that. The list of Star Wars novels is extensive, with there being more then 80 listed on the Wiki page.

You don't publish over 80 books if no one is buying them.

There's effectively 2 kinds of SW fans, the ones that enjoyed the movies and that's the end of it, and those who enjoy the universe, play the games, read the books, ect... Most of us who play X-Wing fall in to that second camp, and I'd guess the vast majority of us have at least a passing knowledge of the EU stuff. Most of us know what a Z-95 is, or the YT-2400, or a Tie Defender.

Well in addition to enjoying the movies, I've played a lot of the games, but I've never read any of the novels or comic books. I've been a video/computer game player all my life, and I grew up playing those Star Wars games in the 90s. Does that put me in a hybrid category?...

Considering how well the various SW novels, comics and games have sold. You're clearly wrong about that. The list of Star Wars novels is extensive, with there being more then 80 listed on the Wiki page.

You don't publish over 80 books if no one is buying them.

There's effectively 2 kinds of SW fans, the ones that enjoyed the movies and that's the end of it, and those who enjoy the universe, play the games, read the books, ect... Most of us who play X-Wing fall in to that second camp, and I'd guess the vast majority of us have at least a passing knowledge of the EU stuff. Most of us know what a Z-95 is, or the YT-2400, or a Tie Defender.

I'm not saying the spin-off stuff isn't popular, only that their popularity pales compared to the films. Disney must know that their real audience is not the few million readers of Star Wars novels (it must be less than that for any individual novel or comic or whatever, or they'd all be bestsellers). Their audience is the hundreds of millions of people who have seen at least one of the films. Maintaining continuity with the post-ROTJ expanded universe shouldn't be a priority from either a financial or creative standpoint, since I'm sure it's a relatively small number of fans who will be upset about overridden/retconned material, and an even smaller number who will avoid the new Star Wars stuff if it conflicts with spin-off stuff.

But a lot of the ships people are asking for (the Outrider, the TIE Defender, etc.) aren't from post-RotJ, I would point out. They're from during the original trilogy's time. That should make them more likely to be made, wouldn't it?