Last night I tried a new approach against a friend of mine. I wasn't sure it would work out. 100 point game.

Soontir Fell, Push The Limit

Major Rhymer, Proton Bomb, Cluster Missile, Concussion Missile

Dark Curse

Night Beast.

Basically I kept the two TIEs in the fight, and used them defensively. With Dark Curses ability to essentially disregard target locks and Night Beast almost always taking a green maneuver, and the bomber for heavy hitting and Soontir as an offensive sweeper. I wasn't sure it would work because i normally have more ships on the board. However it worked spectacularly, and I only took two damage in the whole game. What do people think of the DK/NB defensive combo?

Side note, concussion missiles when you have a focus token = blowing Wedge apart with a single hit (ok well he was missing one shield but still… very effective.)

If I'm fielding TIE fighters, which I generally only do along with some other ship types, Dark Curse and Night Beast are usually the first 2 I grab. Dark Curse + Stealth Device is just plain evil.

I'm waiting until I can field Dark Curse and Carnor Jax. Talk about enemy action denial.

Oh, that IS going to be nasty

The problem with Dark Curse is that he can't make himself an offensive threat to leverage his defensive capabilities. If he's never shot at, then his ability is wasted points. DC with a Stealth Device is almost pointless. He just ends up being the last to die, nothing more.

The most effective defensive abilities are on those ships that have the capability to make themselves offensive threats and force a tough choice on your opponent. Purely defensive ships get ignored. Purely offensive ships get sploded. The smart money is on something in between.

Night Beast certainly can have his moments, but he has to make the choice between effectiveness and predictability, as the TIE/ln doesn't have all that many green manuevers. Now, if we could get him into an Interceptor, that'd be a whole other story...

Major Rhymer's empty EPT slot makes me twitch a little. Can't even make room for an AR, or maybe Determination?

I'll admit to having done very little testing with Proton Bombs. Bombs are usually something I add to fill the last few points in my squads, and I don't usually have 5 points to devote to them.

Not much to say about Soontir and PTL that hasn't already been said. It's expensive, but if you can keep him safe, he's a beast.

I agree with Tawnos in a way. I agree that Dark Curse is unlikely to be attacked because of his annoying ability. As such, Stealth Device isn't that valuable on him. However, this is precisely why I think you shoudl take Dark Curse. Yeah, he may not be shot at until the end, but that means the entire game he is hounding your enemies, doing a point of damage here and there. For 16 points, that's a great deal.

It is still only 4 ships.

I agree with Tawnos in a way. I agree that Dark Curse is unlikely to be attacked because of his annoying ability. As such, Stealth Device isn't that valuable on him. However, this is precisely why I think you shoudl take Dark Curse. Yeah, he may not be shot at until the end, but that means the entire game he is hounding your enemies, doing a point of damage here and there. For 16 points, that's a great deal.

I have the same concern. I'm looking at fielding a black squadron force, and the other two Black Squadron pilots - Backstabber and Mithel - instantly rate more attention due to their ability to rack up extra attack dice. Expose or Opportunist generic pilots the same.

I had a couple of games with basic TIEs versus X-wings last night and it underscored how little firepower a TIE seems to have; 2 attack v 2 defence is nowhere near as nasty as 3 attack v 3 defence, especially since a bonus defence die for any reason is proportionately a much bigger deal.

I dunno. I will be getting Royal Guard but at the same time I really want to master using a pure elite TIE fighter force (without resorting to "Howlrunner" and a shedload of academy pilots).

That said, there is some value to a pilot that people don't even bother shooting at because he's too hard a target for his cost.

I agree with Tawnos in a way. I agree that Dark Curse is unlikely to be attacked because of his annoying ability. As such, Stealth Device isn't that valuable on him. However, this is precisely why I think you shoudl take Dark Curse. Yeah, he may not be shot at until the end, but that means the entire game he is hounding your enemies, doing a point of damage here and there. For 16 points, that's a great deal.

I have the same concern. I'm looking at fielding a black squadron force, and the other two Black Squadron pilots - Backstabber and Mithel - instantly rate more attention due to their ability to rack up extra attack dice. Expose or Opportunist generic pilots the same.

I had a couple of games with basic TIEs versus X-wings last night and it underscored how little firepower a TIE seems to have; 2 attack v 2 defence is nowhere near as nasty as 3 attack v 3 defence, especially since a bonus defence die for any reason is proportionately a much bigger deal.

I dunno. I will be getting Royal Guard but at the same time I really want to master using a pure elite TIE fighter force (without resorting to "Howlrunner" and a shedload of academy pilots).

That said, there is some value to a pilot that people don't even bother shooting at because he's too hard a target for his cost.

Honestly, I don't think there's much difference between DC dying last as opposed to any other cheaper TIE/ln. Both have the same capacity to do a point of damage here or there until the game winds down. You just pay more for the privelege on DC, and it makes it easy for your opponent to decide where to focus their efforts early on.

Well in a close game it can secure you the victory if it gets to one on one, it allows Dark Curse to basically Leroy Jenkins it for ranged one shots since most enemies will avoid shooting him unless he's the only target, and it still protects him from those pesky "Well nothing else is in my arc" potshots. The only downside to Darkcurse is that the opponent is more likely to use defensive focus and evades since they can't modify attacks against him anyway. Night beast though I'm always a little wary of, the tie's second biggest strength is that it's the third most maneuverable ship in the game, and I know if I take him I'll be tempted to just spam green maneuvers and get him killed.

NB is pretty much my go to. He's so point efficient since he's PTL under most circumstances. I use him a lot. Dark Curse gets a nod from me whenever I want to give my opponent ba choices for target priority. He's list depedant but solid.

The problem with Dark Curse is that he can't make himself an offensive threat to leverage his defensive capabilities. If he's never shot at, then his ability is wasted points. DC with a Stealth Device is almost pointless. He just ends up being the last to die, nothing more.

The most effective defensive abilities are on those ships that have the capability to make themselves offensive threats and force a tough choice on your opponent. Purely defensive ships get ignored. Purely offensive ships get sploded. The smart money is on something in between.

Night Beast certainly can have his moments, but he has to make the choice between effectiveness and predictability, as the TIE/ln doesn't have all that many green manuevers. Now, if we could get him into an Interceptor, that'd be a whole other story...

Major Rhymer's empty EPT slot makes me twitch a little. Can't even make room for an AR, or maybe Determination?

I'll admit to having done very little testing with Proton Bombs. Bombs are usually something I add to fill the last few points in my squads, and I don't usually have 5 points to devote to them.

Not much to say about Soontir and PTL that hasn't already been said. It's expensive, but if you can keep him safe, he's a beast.

I feel a need to calmly address some of the things you said here. You say it's hard to make him offensive, but in that game i had no such trouble. While he didn't get any of the kill shots, he put hits on every enemy on the board. Secondly, It's all in the maneuvering. With Soontir pulling in and out of range of the opponents, and my bomber doing his thing, i rarely gave my opponent any other targets that were not in range 3. That was the point, to limit my friend so that they were his "best" shots to take (unless he wanted to try hitting Soontir at range 3 with TWO focus tokens and an evade).

Secondly, i think that Night Beasts "predictability" makes him quite unpredictable. If you have a decent instinct for how your opponent will fly, then you can elect not to take a green maneuver. When you've done a 2 bank for 3 turns in a row, a sudden K-turn or hard 1 can (and in this case did) come out of nowhere and take your opponent completely off guard.

As for Rhymer, it was a 100 point game and i was specifically trying to test a theory (concussion missiles + focus token). I didn't have a single point left for Adrenaline Rush (thought it would have made things easier). As for Proton Bombs, all rules i can find say they essentially hand out Crits that bypass shields. Get really lucky, and they can destroy an A-Wing in 1 hit.

And of course i can keep Soontir safe. He got 2 of the 3 kills in the game. Rhymer got the other with his missile, which of course a) proved my theory and b) made me happy.

Anyway Tawnos, thanks for giving me a good chance to go into further detail about my intended strategy. Hopefully my explanation will give others some food for thought.

I agree with Tawnos in a way. I agree that Dark Curse is unlikely to be attacked because of his annoying ability. As such, Stealth Device isn't that valuable on him. However, this is precisely why I think you shoudl take Dark Curse. Yeah, he may not be shot at until the end, but that means the entire game he is hounding your enemies, doing a point of damage here and there. For 16 points, that's a great deal.

I have the same concern. I'm looking at fielding a black squadron force, and the other two Black Squadron pilots - Backstabber and Mithel - instantly rate more attention due to their ability to rack up extra attack dice. Expose or Opportunist generic pilots the same.

I had a couple of games with basic TIEs versus X-wings last night and it underscored how little firepower a TIE seems to have; 2 attack v 2 defence is nowhere near as nasty as 3 attack v 3 defence, especially since a bonus defence die for any reason is proportionately a much bigger deal.

I dunno. I will be getting Royal Guard but at the same time I really want to master using a pure elite TIE fighter force (without resorting to "Howlrunner" and a shedload of academy pilots).

That said, there is some value to a pilot that people don't even bother shooting at because he's too hard a target for his cost.

If you want to run a TIE swarm that's a bit odd, try Mauler and a bunch of Black Squadron pilots with Swarm Tactics. From what i understand, since you resolve them in any order you want, you can chain them so they all have a PS of 7. It's very unlikely that one TIE won't be in range of at least 1 other TIE, so you likely won't have to worry about the range requirement. For flavor, throw in Backstabber. People will try to go for him, but your swarm of "suddenly sevens" are likely to deal with any pesky pilots who might dare.

Tie fighters are dog fighters anyway, at and after engagement you don't need much more than his greens to keep him shooting. Nightbeast also excels at shooting opportunity targets rather than trying to focus down and chase one specific threat. He just peppers damage around all day and as long as he's focused and evaded he's usually not a priority target. If he finds himself the priority target then Focus and evade away because think the rest of your list just won... Or they are already dead.

I also don't really like putting the stealth device on Dark Curse. It's defense overload, which can have its uses but I'd out that stealth device on 90% of the other ships first (probably not the biggs or lesser ties) unless I had a special plan. 19pts is a lot of a basic tie. If you really want him to be defensive just take the evade action. It pretty much ensures your opponent needs 4 hits and you have to roll 3 non-evades to get one shot. Math might say focus is better there but even knowing the trick, I probably wouldn't waste a shot on DC with an evade at full health unless I had no other targets.

I agree with Tawnos in a way. I agree that Dark Curse is unlikely to be attacked because of his annoying ability. As such, Stealth Device isn't that valuable on him. However, this is precisely why I think you shoudl take Dark Curse. Yeah, he may not be shot at until the end, but that means the entire game he is hounding your enemies, doing a point of damage here and there. For 16 points, that's a great deal.

I have the same concern. I'm looking at fielding a black squadron force, and the other two Black Squadron pilots - Backstabber and Mithel - instantly rate more attention due to their ability to rack up extra attack dice. Expose or Opportunist generic pilots the same.

I had a couple of games with basic TIEs versus X-wings last night and it underscored how little firepower a TIE seems to have; 2 attack v 2 defence is nowhere near as nasty as 3 attack v 3 defence, especially since a bonus defence die for any reason is proportionately a much bigger deal.

I dunno. I will be getting Royal Guard but at the same time I really want to master using a pure elite TIE fighter force (without resorting to "Howlrunner" and a shedload of academy pilots).

That said, there is some value to a pilot that people don't even bother shooting at because he's too hard a target for his cost.

If you want to run a TIE swarm that's a bit odd, try Mauler and a bunch of Black Squadron pilots with Swarm Tactics. From what i understand, since you resolve them in any order you want, you can chain them so they all have a PS of 7. It's very unlikely that one TIE won't be in range of at least 1 other TIE, so you likely won't have to worry about the range requirement. For flavor, throw in Backstabber. People will try to go for him, but your swarm of "suddenly sevens" are likely to deal with any pesky pilots who might dare.

Happy to give it a try, but I'd rather use veteran instincts than swarm tactics. Daisy-chaining the entire force's pilot skill from one guy in a TIE fighter paints rather too massive a set of crosshairs on Mithel, to my mind. Swarming one other guy to PS7, maybe; it's a sensible enough use for Mithel's elite pilot talent.

I love NB dearly, he's q right pain when it gets close. Not used dark curse as much but still he's ok. The thing with '2attacks sucks' as a go to moan for them I'm not sure, surely they should be blasting RIGHT into your opponents range 1,so they will have three shots, not to mention that it makes people want to hit them over the range 3 bomber...

I love NB dearly, he's q right pain when it gets close. Not used dark curse as much but still he's ok. The thing with '2attacks sucks' as a go to moan for them I'm not sure, surely they should be blasting RIGHT into your opponents range 1,so they will have three shots, not to mention that it makes people want to hit them over the range 3 bomber...

The problem with that is that closing as fast as you can tends to be messy because head-on fights with X-wings tend to end badly...

I've had a few games so far; two games were two rookies on three black squadrons, which went to the black squadron both times, and one three red squadron against five black squadron, which went to the rebels both times. Not sure if I'm being to fast to reach for evade tokens, but TIEs do fall apart like tinfoil when faced with a bad defence roll.

The main problem was that the latter games seemed to decend into what someone on this forum called "koiogran jousting" - I'm not sure how to deal with that as it favours the better armed, tougher rebels.

Koiogran jousting does favor the rebels heavily. Without Howlrunner in your squads, there is no reason to attack them head on. Even with her, it's still a better idea to get an angle. You have white 1 turns for a reason. Use them.

Check out my 2 Developing list threads: Baron's Focus and Baron's magic school bus. Both feature NightBeast and both can accommodate Dark Curse.

The problem with Dark Curse is that he can't make himself an offensive threat to leverage his defensive capabilities. If he's never shot at, then his ability is wasted points. DC with a Stealth Device is almost pointless. He just ends up being the last to die, nothing more.

The most effective defensive abilities are on those ships that have the capability to make themselves offensive threats and force a tough choice on your opponent. Purely defensive ships get ignored. Purely offensive ships get sploded. The smart money is on something in between.

Night Beast certainly can have his moments, but he has to make the choice between effectiveness and predictability, as the TIE/ln doesn't have all that many green manuevers. Now, if we could get him into an Interceptor, that'd be a whole other story...

Major Rhymer's empty EPT slot makes me twitch a little. Can't even make room for an AR, or maybe Determination?

I'll admit to having done very little testing with Proton Bombs. Bombs are usually something I add to fill the last few points in my squads, and I don't usually have 5 points to devote to them.

Not much to say about Soontir and PTL that hasn't already been said. It's expensive, but if you can keep him safe, he's a beast.

I feel a need to calmly address some of the things you said here. You say it's hard to make him offensive, but in that game i had no such trouble. While he didn't get any of the kill shots, he put hits on every enemy on the board. Secondly, It's all in the maneuvering. With Soontir pulling in and out of range of the opponents, and my bomber doing his thing, i rarely gave my opponent any other targets that were not in range 3. That was the point, to limit my friend so that they were his "best" shots to take (unless he wanted to try hitting Soontir at range 3 with TWO focus tokens and an evade).

Secondly, i think that Night Beasts "predictability" makes him quite unpredictable. If you have a decent instinct for how your opponent will fly, then you can elect not to take a green maneuver. When you've done a 2 bank for 3 turns in a row, a sudden K-turn or hard 1 can (and in this case did) come out of nowhere and take your opponent completely off guard.

As for Rhymer, it was a 100 point game and i was specifically trying to test a theory (concussion missiles + focus token). I didn't have a single point left for Adrenaline Rush (thought it would have made things easier). As for Proton Bombs, all rules i can find say they essentially hand out Crits that bypass shields. Get really lucky, and they can destroy an A-Wing in 1 hit.

And of course i can keep Soontir safe. He got 2 of the 3 kills in the game. Rhymer got the other with his missile, which of course a) proved my theory and b) made me happy.

Anyway Tawnos, thanks for giving me a good chance to go into further detail about my intended strategy. Hopefully my explanation will give others some food for thought.

I'm a bit confused. How is Fel getting 2 focus tokens? You can only take one focus action per turn, even if it's a free action right? I don't see anything that would hand him free focus tokens from elsewhere.

His built-in gives him a focus token when he receives a stress token. That isn't an action; you can have any number of focus tokens . You just can't take the Focus action more than once per turn.

I'm a bit confused. How is Fel getting 2 focus tokens? You can only take one focus action per turn, even if it's a free action right? I don't see anything that would hand him free focus tokens from elsewhere.

Soontir takes the Evade action, granting him an evade token. He then uses Push the Limit to take a Focus action, granting him a focus token. He then gains a stress token from PtL, which grants him a focus token from his pilot ability. Unlike Night Beast, he isn't taking a free focus action , he is gaining a free focus token .

I'm a bit confused. How is Fel getting 2 focus tokens? You can only take one focus action per turn, even if it's a free action right? I don't see anything that would hand him free focus tokens from elsewhere.

Soontir takes the Evade action, granting him an evade token. He then uses Push the Limit to take a Focus action, granting him a focus token. He then gains a stress token from PtL, which grants him a focus token from his pilot ability. Unlike Night Beast, he isn't taking a free focus action , he is gaining a free focus token .

Got it, thanks

How about taking DC and NB naked and then stacking in other defensive ships. Like this:

Howlrunner, PtL, Stealth

Dark Curse

Night Beast

Academy Pilot w/ Stealth

Academy Pilot w/ Stealth

Academy Pilot w/ Stealth

Offense comes from Howlrunner rerolls while also having Howlrunning having Focus + Evade + stealth every turn. Everyone else can focus (Dark Curse can evade + Focus) and still have pretty solid defense. Might be better than running a 7 Tie list. Maybe.

You'd be better off dropping all those Stealth Devices and just running an extra AP.

You'd be better off dropping all those Stealth Devices and just running an extra AP.

I've run that, before, and the weak point (as much as there is one) is the Academy pilots point wise. Lose 2 or 3 and it can take a win down to a modified win. It might be better points denial wise to run the stealth devices, I'm thinking.