I have to agree with progressions, I've read several suggestion even I could implement in my group that has had similar issues in the past. It sounds like you are actually trying to not find a solution and that you have already made up your mind on the matter. But that's just my opinion on reading all these posts. Hope you find the solution you need.

In the case of these NPCs, it's not really plausible that they would waste their time bothering with the PCs. Both have other things to do that would make far more sense.

Going the other way only plays into the PCs being abnormally important to the setting (as opposed to being the center of where the camera is pointed). The game revolves around the PCs, but the galaxy barely notices them.

I agree with you on this one. I try not to let my PCs get too important to the setting either. And it sounds like you're already thinking through NPC motivations too, which is good.

But if the existing NPCs aren't going to work, then create new ones who will. Even if it rubs you the wrong way to make the characters so important (it bothers me sometimes too, I'll admit). And given the grand scale of the setting, surely there's someone, somewhere, who would make it personal if he did stumble across the PCs (Obligation is there for a reason). There were several good examples above, but here's my own:

A Captain in the Imperial Navy who's got a CR-90 Corvette and a paladin-complex.

I'm talking old-school Anaxes War College, honour spelled with a "u", "protect and defend", all that. Humanocentric, maybe a little xenophobic, but certainly not xenocidal. Obviously an antagonist, but also utterly incorruptible, and dedicated to upholding the law and maintaining order. He's good at his job, but the brass can't use him for anything critical because he is constitutionally incapable of turning a blind eye to irregularities. So he's got nothing more important to do than chase two-bit smugglers across the galaxy and back.

The CR-90 should be powerful enough to keep the players running, but fast enough that they won't get too far, and the fanatically lawful good alignment explains why he's still chasing.

Try it out. Or one of the other suggestions. If it doesn't work, try something new. Ask the players for ideas on how their characters could be involved in a long-running story arc. Be clear about the difference between what the player wants and what their character wants.

@Dbuntu: Interdictors are very rare, and with one in the system the PCs are just TIE-Fodder, no matter how fast their ship is. The TIE/IN will shred them to pieces. If you want to kill them than it's fine, but even without an Interdictor the sheer pressure and threat such a cruiser group presents, not to mention when they DO send some TIE/LN after them, should make it clear for the PCs that the Empire is hear to stay.

The criminals won't like it since suddenly work got very difficult and risky.

The locals with a sense of independence won't like it that someone is giving them orders that they have to follow. Otherwise a demonstration what a battery of heavy turbolasers does to the landscape makes clear who is the new Boss.

The Rebells won't like it since now they can't move as freely through this system as before.

All that makes a lot of opportunities for a group to go on an adventure.

Otherwise they are stuck with legal transport jobs for a longer time. Can they really afford that?

Will their contacts/business partners from all those slave and spice-runs LET them lie low when there are important transports to make and schedules to keep?

Most of those things can be done to by switching the Empire against another crime syndicate coming into the sector, or a wannabe-warlord taking over.

The possibilities are endless.

Edit: Joker Two made another good point. Hell, depending on what planet and time i were born I could have ended up like that. Somewhat scary thought.

A Captain in the Imperial Navy who's got a CR-90 Corvette and a paladin-complex.

I'm talking old-school Anaxes War College, honour spelled with a "u", "protect and defend", all that. Humanocentric, maybe a little xenophobic, but certainly not xenocidal. Obviously an antagonist, but also utterly incorruptible, and dedicated to upholding the law and maintaining order. He's good at his job, but the brass can't use him for anything critical because he is constitutionally incapable of turning a blind eye to irregularities. So he's got nothing more important to do than chase two-bit smugglers across the galaxy and back.

The CR-90 should be powerful enough to keep the players running, but fast enough that they won't get too far, and the fanatically lawful good alignment explains why he's still chasing.

I am in love with this idea and it has officially entered my list of things to throw in my game.

It's easy enough to piss off the wrong person. An easy job could end up dropping something in to their laps that belongs to someone very important. Just because they take petty jobs doesn't mean they can't find enough trouble to rethink things.

HappyDaze, you seem to have an answer for everything. You've rejected every suggestion because it's "impossible", "improbable", "implausible", etc.

Are you sure you really want help with this?

For example,

You say that there are few ships your PCs can't outrun.

Aren't you the GM? Wouldn't you be able to MAKE a ship they couldn't outrun?

Most of the time in fiction, significant things happen because of the PLOT. Because it's time for the PCs to be captured--something happens that causes them to be able to be captured.

When you say "In the case of these NPCs, it's not really plausible that they would waste their time bothering with the PCs.", I would suggest that perhaps someone with enough ingenuity could come up with a way that they might want to become nemesises--if that's what you wanted to do. If not, that's fine--but in fiction, just like in real life, people make surprising choices all the time.

On the one hand, it is possible that the dozen or so people who have responded in this thread are just not clever or helpful enough to come up with solutions that would help you in the challenge you're facing.

Could it also be possible that you're just rejecting every offer without actually applying any ingenuity to how it might help you?

This is just a thought. I feel like you've been offered many helpful suggestions but none of them ever seem to be good enough.

I've already said that I'm taking a few weeks off from running for that group because right now the thought of running that game irritates me. I like the suggestions coming in even if there are many that don't really seem likely to work with the group and game I have. Have I already decided? No, but if I was pushed to run tomorrow, I'd likely just have them killed off in some pointless manner.

Have you spoken to them more directly on how you feel? And how to make it more interesting for everyone involved? I often find that my discussion with dm can prompt changes in either party. Though I wished he would do it more often

I've spoken with two of the four. One just shrugged and said nothing (the player of the Trandoshan Hired Gun) and the other asked if we could just ignore the last session and "re-do" it.

I've spoken with two of the four. One just shrugged and said nothing (the player of the Trandoshan Hired Gun) and the other asked if we could just ignore the last session and "re-do" it.

Who was the other one just out of curiousity?

The trandoshan sounds like hes along for the ride, which is natural in any player who's come from a DnD settling (the enjoyment is in smashing people's faces in, which is fun.). Still what was it that you spoken to them about?

It just sounds like at the moment that there isn't anything for them to care about other then themselves. A natural weakness of sandbox RPG that requires people to really play into the setting. To have self driving motivations and to actually be willing to interact, for better or for worse, with the world around them. If the player treats NPC's as NIC's (not importent characters, also known as roleplay carpets), then freeform campiagns have a limited sheif life based on how powerful/rich/surivive in the universe.

If your not satisified with how they treat NPC's, then it might be an idea to pitch to them what would be their "likeable" NPC? Make them give better work in responce to good rappor and if there is no work and theres only unsavoury jobs, give the option to "fast forward" to a point where there is more standard work.

Otherwise, if they are just not that interested, it might be time to slap a pair of rails on them, such as having them make an extremely lucatrive payout that is for rebel allience/organisation and use that to grip them. Make them worse then criminals but wanted people, that should encourage them to do what they can for the cause, because they have to if nothing else. Perhaps even present oppertunties like climbing up the crimelord food chain, though that in it own imposes it's own challanges that they can't cut and run from.

For example, in the group I play in, we recently commited an act of terriorism in robbing an imperial govener blind in the hopes of getting millions, but it backfired as we only recieved 1500 credits due to a near empty safe, as it was a setup to have huge bounties setup by another crew member. Because of this, and the fact the local underworld will likely sell us out, we are obligated to travel with Lando unless we want to end up in a imperial prison as he is likely the only one that can get us out of the recent imperial blockade.

The big problem is that it's impossible to make people care for NPC's if they don't want to care, so it really does need their approval before you go ahead into tying them into a plot. If it's not compatable with the party then suggest that they make a new one with motives more in line. It's clear your players like edgy campaigns, so give them a food chain to move up and give them responsiablity that could well bite them in the ass if they are reckless.

On a side note, one player has a family obilgation, but we had it ruled in our group that any obligations had to be with objects outside of the party, otherwise said member could dismiss that obilgation if they so wanted. I'm not sure if that makes any difference in your current situation.

The other player I spoke to is the one running the Smuggler (FSE, Scoundrel). I expressed to them my growing dissatisfaction with the game as its going now. I asked what might get them to invest more into the game and their characters. I also asked if they wanted to keep playing or not, and if they wanted to keep playing, if they wanted to keep the same characters/campaign or scrap it and start fresh.

The other player I spoke to is the one running the Smuggler (FSE, Scoundrel). I expressed to them my growing dissatisfaction with the game as its going now. I asked what might get them to invest more into the game and their characters. I also asked if they wanted to keep playing or not, and if they wanted to keep playing, if they wanted to keep the same characters/campaign or scrap it and start fresh.

Sounds like you are in a funk. May be time to start fresh. Or, if possible, remove offending members and add new blood to the group. That may make things more interesting for you.

In a past campaign, I had a number of in-game strategies that I was considering. In my case, the players with a D&D background were more likely to be heroic in Star Wars. However, I had a number of players whose gaming mindset was based on Shadowrun.

I decided to do the same thing you are. I took a break. I was going to propose re-starting with new characters.That was a d20 game, and at the time I started thinking about re-starting, Edge of the Empire had been out for about a year. So I was able to pitch a new campaign, and since Rebellion is in Beta, moving toward full release, I pitched the campaign as a group of freelancers who could potentially end up working with, or for, or potentially joining, the Rebellion. I've set the game to take place prior to Yavin to help with that transition. Right now, they are basically simple men and women trying to make their way in the universe.

As for the in-game solutions I had considered. I had several Jedi Guardian players, and they were quickly leaning to the Dark Side. The campaign had been initially pitched by another GM, who stepped down, and was described as being "gray" in terms of light and dark side. Several players took this as license to play Jedi characters without the restrictions of Jedi morals, taking DS powers even. I mentioned the power imbalance, and that it was making it hard for me to create challenges without the force users upstaging everyone else. One Guardian player said that it would be completely fair to put dark side Force users in as challenging opponents, kind of ignoring the fact that what I was trying to do was let the non-force user players shine once in a while. I had considered the opposite of his suggestion. He had been acting more and more on his dark side personality (which he claimed on his character sheet was 'repressed urges.'). So, I was going to have him encounter Jedi sent by the council to bring him to trial.

I wasn't as much sandbox, though I'm trying to open up my campaign a bit. (less railroad, more go-kart track, where there's some direction, but a few offroad opportunities.)

They weren't so much refusing to go on adventures, but were very "Shadow Run" about it. One player was the "face" or negotiator for the group, and insisted on haggling price for every mission. On this, I was considering having multiple adventures ready, and having the first person who tried to hire them actually refuse to pay what they were asking and walk away. Then they'd get a call that they need to pay for additional docking or leave the system. If they chose to search for other work, they'd find something easy, but likewise not paying much. And the initial contact is now mysteriously missing.

There's also diminishing returns if they keep trying to do the same thing over and over. If they always go to the same customer to deliver the same contraband, etc. you can introduce competition. The customer may have found another smuggler who charges less to move his merchandise. You can stay in a small pond, if you're willing to stay a small fish. But sooner or later, that pond is going to dry out.

This works with XP, too. If they just want to do the same thing over and over, or resolve every challenge with a blaster, they don't really get better at anything. It would be like going to a batting cage and having the machine throw the same pitch at the same speed always. You'll get a lot of good hits, but you won't get any better when facing a real pitcher.

The guy playing the Sullustan Explorer (Fringer, Trader) has quite a bit of experience playing Shadowrun and he loves to haggle over everything too. He more or less built his character to do just that.

May i dare ask how it turned out so far?

The previous game was discontinued. We're putting together a new game that should start next week. Expectations have been made clear. The players are making characters that are somwhat more morally centered ("light gray" rather than "black") than in the last game and they have personal goals they're intent on working towards beyond "making credits".

Ah, then good luck with the new game.

You know I was wondering whether that character responsible for swoop racing and killing Tusken Raiders thought about changing the character's motivation to Wanted or Reputation?

The gaining a reputation sounds more appropriate than Ambition(Status) since if they're looking to make an name for themselves then you could easily either replace the Ambition motivation entirely or halve it depending on whether the player would actually like to have progressed from having an Ambition to gain status to actually have developed a Reputation?

As for the ship had I been still in the group I was last year I was going to run the Beginner box set game by revealing that the characters that came from the beginner box set had stolen the PCs ship forcing them to find an alternative ship as the Hutt had discovered some of them had bounties on their heads...

Of course I planned for them to eventually discover what was going on and recover their ship, but given what you explained I was wondering if that has ever come up in your game?

HappyDaze, I'm very glad to hear your sticking with it and hope things gets easier for you, as a once frustrated GM myself, I understand how things get, and running campaigns for PCs with disparate or downright destructive goals leads to a lot of management you probably didn't sign up for, I don't know if this lack of motivation has come up before, but believe me when I say, it gets easier.

Part of it is just expectations set to high or in some players case too low, others stem from personal preference, attention span, and overall organization. (of the characters goals and motivations, not the game itself) Personally, I have to salute you with a sandbox approach, as that is something I've never been able to run nor am disposed toward. I have several friends who just run missions from their base and that's the degree of plot and complication they want, whereas I pretty much shrivel up and die without some overall guiding motivation, perhaps that's something you'll be able to provide for the next game?

But do stick with it, and I hope you'll continue posting your findings here. Good Luck, and May The Force Be With You.

Sadly just 4 weeks ago we had to stop a game where i was a player. We were lacking motivation somewhat.

The game was The Dark Eye, which is rather heavy on skills. Our GM had the idea to run a campaign for us to rid a part of the countryside from marauders, warlords and mercenaries which would eat up nearly all financial reserves the party had but would net them a rise into nobility.

So far so good, we were exited about the possibilities.

Sadly he stuck to the book as written, not once improvising.

A pirate group who uses the river that formed our natural border to the south was not found in a whole year in-time and in rl time. Neither our characters nor the NPCs we hired managed to get the necessary roll to find them in the act or their hideout.

Or how we are rather hard pressed to afford a group of 50 regular mercenaries to boost our numbers since we mostly have only 125 militias. Of course in our campaign we run into a merc-band consisting of over 300 battle hardened veterans using a lance of demonic griffons as mounts and a demonic banner that renders them immune to miracles and divine 'magic'.

For our group (and the law in-game) demonic things are a no-go and punishable by death. Luckily for us they are contemp with just sitting their and blocking our advance.

Every local lord has to be painstakingly convinced to stop hiding in his little castle/fortified mansion and get out to help us restore order in the land. They made the Imperial moffs of the SW EU look like brilliant extrovert leaders.

That made it a chore, not a sometimes hard sometimes fun campaign.

The last thing that broke it was when we had to deal with a powerful illusionist and his private army. He was running his own campaign far enoug away from us to be of no threat to us. But one of the adventures our GM had dug out had us go there to steal an important relic from his collection. Well, the illusionist was paranoid and used demons as guards and alarm systems. Since he was on a campaign against another warlord he was holed up in his camp with about 500+ mercenaries, several magic wards to protect himself and his collection and a few demons.

My char is the frontline officer, dishing out, taking the hits and leading the troops. I am not the charismatic liar to get anywhere close to the leader or sneak in to steal the relic.

Our priestess (of the death god) was of no use either.

And our mage did not want to get into the camps since he had no (magical) chance against anything the NPC could do.

I asked the GM into his face how he wants us to accomplish this since we simply ran out of ideas and had not the appropriate skills.

So we switched the system and our GM the group.

And the lesson learned: It takes two to tango.

Sounds like a lack of communication for the GM, he didn't realize or didn't care for the interests of the group. On the other hand, I would hope if a lot of time was spent in this campaign, everybody was giving him enough feedback to know what they wanted/needed. The old saying always rings true, "communication is key."

We play once every two weeks for a few hours for nearly two years with that campaign book.

We repeatitly told him about our dissatisfaction of the speed of progress, the ridiculous opposition, how out of context several things felt and artificaly complicated it seemed.

'But it's written that way.' He literally stopped it two weeks before i was about to quit for the reasons i listed. It did not feel like a game for me any more.

We play once every two weeks for a few hours for nearly two years with that campaign book. We repeatitly told him about our dissatisfaction of the speed of progress, the ridiculous opposition, how out of context several things felt and artificaly complicated it seemed. 'But it's written that way.' He literally stopped it two weeks before i was about to quit for the reasons i listed. It did not feel like a game for me any more.

It doesn't sound like GMing might be the best role for that individual--as you tried to tell him, it requires a lot of improvisation and flexibility!