One of my players brought up the question of why he should bother taking ranks in cool. So far we have only run the beginner box adventure and cool was pretty much only used for initiative. I know it is used for other social things later on, but he does make a decent point in regards to triumphs in initiative.

With more yellow proficiency dice you have a chance to roll one or more triumphs, but what do they do in an initiative roll?

By the rules they count as a single success, but it seems like they should be more important than that considering their rarity and that they require ranks to even have a chance of appearing.

I'm considering making them count for 2-5 successes for initiative, since you want as many successes as possible.

Anyone have any thoughts or experience with this?

5 is excessive. You get 1 success already from the Triumph, 1 or 2 more might be appropriate.

We used the suggestions for Triumphs rolled in the skill rather than the combat suggestions since our GM ruled that initiative wasn't really appropriate to use the combat advantage/threat table (not being a contested roll). Since my initiative roll was Cool-based I got whatever benefits a Triumph on a Cool roll would give.

we play triumphs as you go first

we play triumphs as you go first

This is what we do. It doesn't seem to break anything.

I say it crushes my enemies and drives them before me, as well as, allows me to enjoy listening to the lamentations of their women.....

I'm not sure where I read it, but a Triumph allows for a free out-of-sequence maneuver prior to the first character acting in the encounter. This can obviously be used to draw a weapon, take cover, move, aim, or any other relevant activity. In the case of multiple Triumphs, I'm not sure if the character gets multiple free maneuvers or not.

I'm not sure where I read it, but a Triumph allows for a free out-of-sequence maneuver prior to the first character acting in the encounter. This can obviously be used to draw a weapon, take cover, move, aim, or any other relevant activity. In the case of multiple Triumphs, I'm not sure if the character gets multiple free maneuvers or not.

I'm going to have to find out if that is true or not. That would be very helpful if it is.

CRB p. 108 says a triumph generated during a Cool check demonstrates how the player has stood "unflinching" in the face of chaos erupting around them and may recover 3 strain. Vigilance talks about the extra maneuver for a Triumph during the first round of combat; CRB p.119. Although it always puzzles me when they list something in regards to an extra maneuver they always say you can only take two maneuvers maximum in a round, which I can already do, so does extra mena 3 or what?

Presumably the Triumph means you get an extra maneuver without having to take Strain for it.

Doesn't Escape from Mos Schuuta give an example of using Cool as the skill check when you're evading the Gammorreans at the beginning?

I think it was, your character could sit down at the bar and act like you belong there--that would be a Cool check.

Presumably the Triumph means you get an extra maneuver without having to take Strain for it.

Which I'd be fine with if the wording was spend a Triumph for a free maneuver or second maneuver at not strain cost, but it says extra maneuver and then the caveat of two per turn. Seems a little poorly worded to me.

CRB p. 108 says a triumph generated during a Cool check demonstrates how the player has stood "unflinching" in the face of chaos erupting around them and may recover 3 strain. Vigilance talks about the extra maneuver for a Triumph during the first round of combat; CRB p.119. Although it always puzzles me when they list something in regards to an extra maneuver they always say you can only take two maneuvers maximum in a round, which I can already do, so does extra mena 3 or what?

Its a limit of 2 maneuvers on your turn. Technically, the Triumph Maneuver would be before your turn. Same as if you spend three of your opponent's Threat to get a free maneuver. You take it immediately, not during your next turn.

[it's] a limit of 2 maneuvers on your turn. Technically, the Triumph Maneuver would be before your turn. Same as if you spend three of your opponent's Threat to get a free maneuver. You take it immediately, not during your next turn.

That's how I read it. Lets you take cover, or ready a weapon right before combat starts. No reason you can't apply it to Cool also.

GM's could even allow a player with multiple Triumphs to alert his team; each one grants another member one maneuver before combat begins.

I'm not sure where I read it, but a Triumph allows for a free out-of-sequence maneuver prior to the first character acting in the encounter. This can obviously be used to draw a weapon, take cover, move, aim, or any other relevant activity. In the case of multiple Triumphs, I'm not sure if the character gets multiple free maneuvers or not.

It was on one of the sheets that help following initiative order in combat, we use the same rule - Triumphs allow free man, still limited to 2 per turn, but this way you don't have to spend 2 strain for an additional one.

Why bother with Cool?

To gamble.

To disarm a ticking bomb (a pool of Mechanics + Cool).

To regain Strain after a combat.

I say it crushes my enemies and drives them before me, as well as, allows me to enjoy listening to the lamentations of their women.....

There really is nothing better then the lamentations of my enemy's women...

On topic, I would allow a free manuever on a triumph. That seems reasonable for such a simple uncontested check at the beginning of the fight.

We just let it break ties. There are lots of ties. That is already pretty good.

When I do it, I have them roll their cool/vigilance skill (whichever is appropriate) and write it down on some scrap paper or dry erase board as follows:

Number of successes//Number of advantages//T for Triumph (multiple triumphs get multiple Ts)

Then I order them by successes. When there is a tie, I look to the number of advantages. When there is still a tie, Triumph wins. If they are still tied at that point, ties go to the PCs.

I also note the PCs/NPCs tossing at least 1 Triumph. I then let them use one free manuever, in order if necessary. Then I start combat as normal. It is the only thing I let them use. For example I don't let them use advantages for strain recovery, those are simply there for tiebreaks for successes. Its worked so far.

We just let it break ties. There are lots of ties. That is already pretty good.

By the rules, PCs already win ties. So letting them win on a Triumph is doing what exactly? Due to the players winning "slots" and not where they actually are in the order, if 2 PCs tie each other, one winning over the other means as much as me being your fathers brothers cousins former room mate.

Or in other words, absolutely nothing.

One extra boost die and an additional success on your next roll.

We just let it break ties. There are lots of ties. That is already pretty good.

By the rules, PCs already win ties. So letting them win on a Triumph is doing what exactly? Due to the players winning "slots" and not where they actually are in the order, if 2 PCs tie each other, one winning over the other means as much as me being your fathers brothers cousins former room mate.

Or in other words, absolutely nothing.

Normally advantages win ties.

We just let it break ties. There are lots of ties. That is already pretty good.

By the rules, PCs already win ties. So letting them win on a Triumph is doing what exactly? Due to the players winning "slots" and not where they actually are in the order, if 2 PCs tie each other, one winning over the other means as much as me being your fathers brothers cousins former room mate.

Or in other words, absolutely nothing.

Normally advantages win ties.

Read that book a bit closer champ. Advantages do win ties. But if PC A rolls 2 successes and 2 advantages, and NPC C rolls 2 successes and 2 advantages, who wins? The PC by default.

Thanks everyone! I Think I will go with the triumph being the first slot and allowing the person who rolled it to gain the benefits listed under the skill.

To add a few ideas to the discussion...

Let the PC have some input on that that Triumph could be spent on. It could be a free maneuver (something I think was first suggested by Sam Stewart during his last Order 66 podcast appearance), or it could be spent to upgrade the next check either the PC or an ally of theirs makes, or some other cool thing that the PC can think of that the GM feels is appropriate and/or not too unbalancing.

As an example, during the last session of a Skype game, the GM allowed my young/minor Jedi to spend the Triumph I'd rolled on his Vigilance check (we'd just gotten attacked by a nexu) to have the defense effect from his Sense power be active (it was only a single upgrade to the difficulty, but it may have made the difference between my PC being badly injured and being dropped outright).

Frankly, the things you could spend a Triumph on during an initiative check are limited by the combined imaginations of you and your players. So rather than simply having one static effect, be open to suggestions from your players.

One of my players brought up the question of why he should bother taking ranks in cool. So far we have only run the beginner box adventure and cool was pretty much only used for initiative. I know it is used for other social things later on, but he does make a decent point in regards to triumphs in initiative.

With more yellow proficiency dice you have a chance to roll one or more triumphs, but what do they do in an initiative roll?

By the rules they count as a single success, but it seems like they should be more important than that considering their rarity and that they require ranks to even have a chance of appearing.

I'm considering making them count for 2-5 successes for initiative, since you want as many successes as possible.

Anyone have any thoughts or experience with this?

I allow one free attack from the player who rolled a Triumph.

One of my players brought up the question of why he should bother taking ranks in cool. So far we have only run the beginner box adventure and cool was pretty much only used for initiative. I know it is used for other social things later on, but he does make a decent point in regards to triumphs in initiative.

With more yellow proficiency dice you have a chance to roll one or more triumphs, but what do they do in an initiative roll?

By the rules they count as a single success, but it seems like they should be more important than that considering their rarity and that they require ranks to even have a chance of appearing.

I'm considering making them count for 2-5 successes for initiative, since you want as many successes as possible.

Anyone have any thoughts or experience with this?

I allow one free attack from the player who rolled a Triumph.

Obviously it's your group and you do what works for said group, but allowing a free attack on a Triumph feels a little too good, and could lead to problems down the road as your PCs starting rolling more proficiency dice on their Initiative checks, and could lead to instances of each of the PCs getting a free shot at the bad guys before the encounter really starts.

I'm not saying their aren't circumstances where it could be justified, but I'd want to keep those circumstances fairly limited.