People have already made a lot of good suggestions and offered different perspectives.

I just want to reiterate that GMing becomes easier (at least it did for me, to a point) if you look for "flags" that your players are waving.

If they are waving a flag that means they want the story to be about that flag, or at least get the flag in play from time to time.

Flags stand out but do not have to be Big Things.

A player that picks Politico and increases his Charm is waving a flag that means "I want to shine in nice social encounters!".

A player that have his character constantly lugg around a heavy Toolkit is waving a flag that means "I want to build and repair stuff that helps us out!".

A player that picks out the heaviest blaster weapon is waving a flag that means "I want to shoot things dead!".

Naturally it is not quite this easy but I found that thinking like this helped me move away from trying to play "against" the players, as a GM.

Players are in general easy to entertain, if you throw them "a bone" so to speak. It is not hard to let the fighter have his fight. The talker have his talk. The X have his X and so on.

The goal is to create a cool story. Not a realistic story, or a well balanced story or a tricky puzzle or bad setback. Sure, they are ingredients that can help make the story cool - but focus on the cool first. Looking at the flags that the other players are waving around the table is an easy way to find out what they think is cool.

Having 2 soak and 10 soak characters in the same party is just a consequence of the system. Being able to down characters in 2 hits where those same 2 hits wouldn't even hurt another character is just lousy game balance, and it comes up fairly often, although not usually so dramatically.

Define "balance". If the Combat Monkies and the Socialites of the party are supposed to be balanced when it comes to combat, then what is the difference? You're saying that the 100lb can-barely-lift-10lbs guy and the 280lb bench-presses-his-neighbors-guy aren't physically different when it comes to what it takes to really hurt them? Are they then the same when it comes to breaking through locks? Getting into computer systems? repairing droids/vehicles/ships? If so, then why have stats at all to differentiate them?

Brawn 5 is perfectly achievable by anyone, including a Jawa, so I don't think increasing size is really appropriate, nor is the restraining bolt.

Having 2 soak and 10 soak characters in the same party is just a consequence of the system. Being able to down characters in 2 hits where those same 2 hits wouldn't even hurt another character is just lousy game balance, and it comes up fairly often, although not usually so dramatically.

You're basically in the situation where you have a superhero and sidekicks. Most people don't like being forced into the role of a sidekick because of choices another player made when they had made their character to be a hero.

If you have played this system long enough (or WFRP3 as well), you would come to realize that it isn't "lousy game balance" and the characters are not in "sidekick and superhero" mode.

Simply look at the example ideas I posted above. Those are just a few ways to turn the tables. This sort of "superhero" is just a superhero in combat. They are pretty sad anywhere else unless you need stuff smashed. Your 2 soak politico might drop in 2 hits, but can run circles around "enemies" in social situations that the so-called superhero is worthless in. Suddenly, your politico has become your superhero.

It's not so much about balance as it is about properly GMing the system. THIS IS NOT D20! But even SAGA had this situation come up... so did D&D 3.5, Burning Wheel, Pathfinder, and just about every other system except maybe D&D4e, simply because it was more of a tactical-combat game than an RPG.

A character with 10+ soak has 10+ soak because he gave up something else. He has a weakness. He can be exploited.

"Turning the tables" is not what you're trying to achieve as a GM, your goal is to make a fun game, and the reason we have this thread is because the lack of balance is making that hard to achieve.

Your idea of "use environment" really means nothing. Your idea of "have social encounters" likewise means nothing. You literally have no idea what else the droid has. He may very well have 5 ranks in multiple social skills and be the best diplomat in the party. Having a high brawn does not automatically make the character useless for anything else. Regardless the "solution" of not having combats is not a solution.

I think that there is something here that alot of GMs seem to miss. The goal of the GM is NOT 'to make a fun game'. The goal of the GM is to HAVE FUN.

There is a slight difference here. While it almost always requires the GM to make a fun game to have fun that isnt the only thing that has to happen. The players also need to realize that the GM needs to have fun too. Part of this is giving the GM something to work with. The guy who deliberately tries to manipulate the rules to break the game usually has the effect of preventing everybody from having fun, and almost always makes being the GM a chore instead of part of the game.

This is why I have several times here had a very 'evil GM' view of power gamers. My view is that the second it is a problem, talk with the player and see if a fix can be found. I have very reasonable players, and I am willing to work with the players concept to a large degree, so this is rarely a problem for me, but I have terminated a game before because it just became a chore, and I would do it again if I had to.

This leads me to the 'arms race' with the players. This should never happen. Manipulating the game world in every way possible is fine and encouraged, but manipulating the game rules is not. If the player is stubborn about their problem character, or seems to be playing against the GM, then they should be shown that isnt a fight they can win.

Yes, that means not playing fair. It is perfectly acceptable to say:

GM: 'I told you that slaughtering everyone was going to have repercussions. Boba Fett has just shown up'

Problem Player: 'I waste him' roll: '147 triumphs'

GM: 'You miss'

Problem Player: 'What!?! HOW?!?'

GM: 'He has the dont give the GM a headache talent. See, right here, it says dont mess with me or bad things will happen. You miss.'

The moral of the story is that if the player is perfectly willing to make an arms race, prove to him he will always lose. A player worth having will get the point. A player not worth having wont, and the next step is to boot him.

RPGs are about story first and foremost. Getting with players at creation and emphasizing that helps a great deal. Then I am honest about how a I award xp and explain I have hooks throughout my game that draw on all skill sets and successes in those plot points award xp. The point being which I explain up front is that the guy or gal that can pick a lock, charm a contact, and knows where to fence goods is probably going to earn more xp than the 10 foot tall blaster proof robo shogun.

Mh ...

What would I do ..

As a gamer I would use the other gamer with this intimidating machine of war as my shield everywhere I go; but I would also try anything to create comic-relief moments in situations where the strengths of this machine wouldn't apply anyway. And I would sincerely hope the gamer would play along. If he does not, then I would stop exploiting his character's disadvantages for the sake of fun and start "ignoring" his character in any situation different from combat, 'cause I would not see any value in playing with his character, unless he offers some opportunities himself ... I would not like it to clear or clean the mess his machine would leave many situations; in such a case I would ask for some serious talks "outside the game".

As a GM I would simply let him play his machine; if he enjoys it, so hell, why not; after all it is not my call alone, but his call, the one of the group, and also mine. If the groups accepts it, and if we agree to play with such a character, so be it. If there are enough voices in the group raising doubts, then we as a group should deal with it.

Besides that: My philosophy is that the gamers' characters are part of a living world; npcs have their own motivations and act based on certain intentions. And if a huge combad-droid shows up, this means trouble and literally asks for responses accordingly. Most likely many npcs/ people would avoid the gamers; but a few would others would start focussing on the threat such a group of travellers could (not necessarily will) mean. And the reactions would be manyfold. But I would not make the game a game of misery for and of an arms-race with the gamer(s). If the group of gamers enjoys it having such a tank in their ranks, they would do anything to tell the stories and enjoy it as well as themselves. And I would see it as my role of a GM to simply support their way of playing it - but sooner or later I would ask what they would be willing to do, if I start loosing interest in such a game ... After all: I want some fun, too.

Now, when you ask, what I would to in order to circumvent the 10-score for soak, then I would every now and then use items to either drop the value like with piercing or ION-stuff etc.; or I would use other things to immobilize the droid - like with traps, nets of metal, super-high-voltage-gear, etc. But I would not use things like this on a regular basis, 'cause else this would start growing a long beard of boredom sooner than later.

Anyway: I would expect the given gamer to give up this character soon, because such a character would not offer plenty of opportunity to enjoy the game ... So, the problem would solve itself anyway without me having to do much about it.

Best wishes!

Mad

I don't think I can even begin to reply to all the comments as it was more then I expected, but I will try and start. XD

To clarify the person isn't an especially mean person, just he wasn't exactly an inspired fellow and got swept along with the hype of a couple others who got fixated on the ultimate combat tank. Needless to say he doesn't really care about social interactions, just as long as he can do his job well nothing else really mattered as he spents more time observing and enjoying the interactions of other players more than contributing his own. He just pumped his remaining skill points into talents, though I made clear the faults of that action (e.g. a lack of any other relevant skills, namely discipline and coordination being the key two)

I just feel the consequence hadn't been thought out, or indeed were not that big a consequence to start with. Indeed the character had already died in the previous session on the Sunday before (long story short, a triumph resulted in him being punted out of a window, and the DM hadn’t read the rules for a two story fall that rendered him unconscious and effectively dead as we couldn’t reach him. In short I told the DM that it probably wasn’t best to use triumphs as a method of instant gibbing often. XD) and he had made a Gadgeteer shooter since then. Just I think my DM struggled to cope with the idea of such a colossus (needless to say this wouldn't be the first campaign that came to a premature end for one reason or another and frequent distractions. Someone optimising too much tends to be the least of my worries.) so I figured I would ask just in case the need arose.

In short, his heart is in the right place just suggestions made a one track monster that seemed out of place for a star wars campaign. This may have been exactly what we needed, as the DM is still adjusting to settling difficulties of encounters but his inclusion made planning encounters difficult. It isn't the intent to punish such a character, but rather how to accomidate it's existance.

I like the idea of more dynamic scenes that is still combat but requires the other use of skills. Since chase scenes can quite easily arise that, while he could make any athletic check, may fall flat on simple things like coordination and discipline checks to introduce some things that means that on occasion the other characters have to step up, since the death star droid would be slower. Due to the nature of the party, he didn’t really need intelligence or cunning though his sheer lack of will and presence means small strain pool is a serious issue.

I do like the idea of setting up nemesis’s for it to keep it entertained. The use of lightsabers is not recommended due to the feel of the campaign, but I do like the idea of making use of the droids natural presence in drawing this heavier fire so that it can at least feel threatened.

I don’t think anyone considered the RP ramifications of having such a droid walking around. Most of the time it was treated as comic relief and used for several distractions, including as a dancing bot (it did badly, which for filled it’s purpose as a distraction. XD) A fire breathing bot, but aside from that it’s appearance was never considered. While it would be boring to say no as to slam the party for having an droid designed for battle in the party, the social implications rises a very good point.

Sorry I can’t say more at the moment as I am about to sleep, but I am very thankful for the response to my quires, given me plenty food for thought to pass up if needed.

Is the droid a problem in actual play? Is the player a problem in actual play?

If everyone at the table is having fun there is no problem.

Pushing the droid out the window is one way of allowing the rest of the party to face weaker minions in combat. Fitting the droid with a restraining bolt does not solve the high Brawn/high soak problem. Giving the rest of the party better armour and killer melee weapons might.

There are many easy ways to creat situations in which high Brawn and high Soak are not the solution. Just as it is easy to create situations where high scores in any other area are not the solution. A character with Slicing 10 isn't going to be any better at shooting a blaster or piloting a land speeder. Does this mean the character is unbalanced?

That droid would fit right in in my game. My players want to blow off steam by blowing cool stuff in epic ways. So I let them. No point in writing encounters based on etiquette and social protocol when that is not what my players are interested in.

You can't soak a Scathing Tirade!

Is the droid a problem in actual play? Is the player a problem in actual play?

If everyone at the table is having fun there is no problem.

Pushing the droid out the window is one way of allowing the rest of the party to face weaker minions in combat. Fitting the droid with a restraining bolt does not solve the high Brawn/high soak problem. Giving the rest of the party better armour and killer melee weapons might.

There are many easy ways to creat situations in which high Brawn and high Soak are not the solution. Just as it is easy to create situations where high scores in any other area are not the solution. A character with Slicing 10 isn't going to be any better at shooting a blaster or piloting a land speeder. Does this mean the character is unbalanced?

That droid would fit right in in my game. My players want to blow off steam by blowing cool stuff in epic ways. So I let them. No point in writing encounters based on etiquette and social protocol when that is not what my players are interested in.

To answer the question and in hindsight, probably didn't make a difference. If anything it enabled the party to be a bit more bold, though to be honest after the fact the party has pretty decent combat abilities spread throughout the party as a somewhat of a hangover from the D20 system. We have two very good shooters, a commander to buff everyones shooting shooting and at least two characters that can preform decently well in combat while specialising in other roles with agilities of 3.

The main thing we actually lack is a true party face since there have been few purely supportive roles. We have a broad range of knowledge, machanical and combat related skills (as even the non-combatants are at least rolling 3 green dice) but we lack a true party face. A couple of us have a cunning of 3, while the commander has a pressence of 3 with some boosts but doesn't really take to the role that readily. So we are still getting the hang of a dynamic party. XD

This has meant that our party is limited in dirty work we can do, though that didn't stop us from serving as an effective backup to Lando's party in robbing a Imperial Governer blind, though our deception has more been done through roleplaying rather then sheer machanics. It was in that firefight that the droid character got killed off, as our remaining members were unable to rescue him.

I had played a Maulader myself previously as a Ex-Stormtrooper whom had turned to a life of crime after losing his eye and job (after the death star destruction, the healthcare of public stormtroopers took a downturn) so I can understand how much of a joy it can be to crack witty one-liners and recite star wars quotes, sometimes in the same sentance. XD

I'd challenge the player with other tests.

Your target is shooting you from another area. The only way there is across a narrow gantry. Roll Coordinate.

Your enemy is trying to talk you down explain why you shouldn't slam his face into the ground. Roll Discipline.

Your enemy is inside a popular club and you need to front your way in. Roll Charm or Deception.

Your target is making his way down a back alley and you need to follow him to his friends without alerting him. Roll Stealth.

You find yourself bound by sturdy magnetic bindings. Roll Skulduggery to escape.

Etc.

To me a Brawn 5 droid who can do NOTHING else is not a character I will approve for a game I run. He should be able to do and contribute more than smashing, even if smashing is what he's best at.

The main thing we actually lack is a true party face [...]

I find your lack of face disturbing.

I never liked games based on Toughness / Constitution soak.

I suggest to remove the Brawn characteristic from Soak and reduce all weapons damage by 2.

Cheers,

Yepes

This could actually work reasonably well. If you think about it, Defense isn't a derived Characteristic, doing the same for Soak changes the dynamic a little, but could result in a very interesting and even playing field. I might suggest this to my group playing a fantasy game with this system and see what comes of it.

I also removed Toughness in Warhammer 3 from soak, but I had to tweak the mechanics a bit more to make it work for me and my group. That is how we did it:

I took away Toughness from soak

I took away Strength from damage (anyhow, damage due to strength is already accounted by the dice pool)

I incorporated the higher lethality optional rule presented in the Game Master's toolkit.

Hope it helps,

Yepes

I don't think the problem is the Droid itself, the problem is keeping combat - a lively part of most games - fun for everyone. That the Droid is so specialised makes that job more difficult. From his original post, LordBritish seemed to be looking for ways of:

1. Making combat a challenge (i.e. not boring) for specialists (not specifically the now dead Droid), while;
2. Not having combat reduce everyone else to a pulpy red* sludge.

Fixing one point without screwing up the other is a balancing act. I love some of the solutions that people have come up with. Good thread.

* green, orange, black...

Brawn 5 = Agility SUX. I pitty you bringing a knife to a gun fight...

I seem to recall that damage output in this game was a bigger concern than Soak.

Autofire weapons can take you out pretty quick. Even Storm Trooper minions with Light Repeating Blasters can make quite a mess. Our Gadgeteer Bounty Hunter took out a squad of 5 Storm Troopers in 2 rounds (thats > 60 damage) with a Heavy Blaster Rifle.

One of my players has a soak of 7 moving on 8. I'm not worried. He's a human marauder with Brawn 3 and 19 wounds. Its his job to anchor the front line, and he does this very well. In battling Cyber Nexu he didn't take a single damage. But he got critted quite badly. That comes out nicely in this game system. I frequently pick on him and throw dark side at him.

Design your encounters around your combat characters to the exclusion of the other players. The other players can always contribute if they can fire a blaster, which they do. (Agility 3 is the norm in my group.) But its your combat characters that will dominate.

Outside of combat, combat players SUX.

Design plenty of non combat encounters for your other players to dominate. Our Droid Slicer has a great time getting information and solving problems and sneaking around. Our mechanic can repair the ship, fly it, and shoot its guns. Our Rodian Pacifist Doctor heals everyone and for some strange reason has racked up the highest body count. (He doubles as the ship's Gunner.) Negotiations fall on our Scoundrel, he's fast but not exactly an awesome shot.

Having 2 soak and 10 soak characters in the same party is just a consequence of the system. Being able to down characters in 2 hits where those same 2 hits wouldn't even hurt another character is just lousy game balance, and it comes up fairly often, although not usually so dramatically.

Define "balance". If the Combat Monkies and the Socialites of the party are supposed to be balanced when it comes to combat, then what is the difference? You're saying that the 100lb can-barely-lift-10lbs guy and the 280lb bench-presses-his-neighbors-guy aren't physically different when it comes to what it takes to really hurt them? Are they then the same when it comes to breaking through locks? Getting into computer systems? repairing droids/vehicles/ships? If so, then why have stats at all to differentiate them?

You can have dramatically different combat effectiveness without a busted stat destroying the balance. You can buy 20 different traits and make yourself a combat god compared to the socialite... but if that socialite happens to invest in brawn and a couple soak talents, yeah, good luck hurting her.

I don't think you quite understood me. As other posters have mentioned, using your environment includes having occasional snipers, bogging down the field with minions, forcing the PCs to make non-combat skill checks (Coordination, Vigilance, etc), among other things. These are all tools you should be doing anyway to spice up your encounters regardless of PC soak levels. How does that mean nothing?

I never said have *only* social encounters, but this game is begging for a good mix of everything. Combat, Social, Environmental, and Starship/Vehicle.

I'm sorry the term "turning the tables" was interpreted as "make the game not fun." That is not what I meant, rather "make the game a challenge." Challenging your PCs in the right way is essential to the fun of this game (and any RPG really) and it is far better than the alternative.

Sure, 5 Brawn is easy for many characters, but 5 Brawn, 10+ soak, and being good at much else is not unless you have very extreme XP levels. 5 Brawn on its own will net you at most 8 soak and may weapons can eat through that enough to challenge your 5 Brawn socialite.

My goal is to be constructive, but going around telling people their posts "mean nothing" doesn't help the conversation or propose any solution to those that are really interested in overcoming this challenge.

Again is not about game rules balance, its about having the right encounter balance. And that requires a skilled GM or a dedicated one who is really willing to put the effort to make everyone feel valued.

Also, as I mentioned, my group has a 13 soak 6 Brawn battledroid. No one considers him a superhero and my mechanic has had to spend a lot of time repairing him.

Again, your "solution" of snipers and minions do not address the problem the disparity between player defense. They in fact ARE the problem the sniper will be killing all the other characters and only annoying the high soak character. Same with the minions.

Again, you keep thinking that 10 soak is some extreme cost. It isn't. Brawn 4 is very easy to get, cybernetics to take it to 5 is cheap. 2 ranks of enduring cost 40. Being a droid and wearing armor take that to 10. This is very achievable in a handful of sessions by any marauder. This is not "extreme XP" and it is not gimping the character, this is, hey we've been playing for a month, hurray!

It's nice your group doesn't mind having a 13 soak character in the party, mine however would get pretty tired of all the NPCs doing the stupidest thing imaginable and firing at the hard to kill droid rather than taking out the squishy guys who also have blasters and are shooting their buddies in the face with them.

I would think the 10 soak marauder would be amongst the enemy while his compatriots duck and hide behind whatever cover they can, only popping out to shoot at the targets breaking cover trying to get away from the murder-death machine. Seems pretty even to me.

It's nice your group doesn't mind having a 13 soak character in the party, mine however would get pretty tired of all the NPCs doing the stupidest thing imaginable and firing at the hard to kill droid rather than taking out the squishy guys who also have blasters and are shooting their buddies in the face with them.

I don't know, if I were in a situation where there were a few flesh-beings and a bulky droid throwing junk around, I'd probably freak out and concentrate fire on the rampaging droid.

Again, your "solution" of snipers and minions do not address the problem the disparity between player defense. They in fact ARE the problem the sniper will be killing all the other characters and only annoying the high soak character. Same with the minions.

Again, you keep thinking that 10 soak is some extreme cost. It isn't. Brawn 4 is very easy to get, cybernetics to take it to 5 is cheap. 2 ranks of enduring cost 40. Being a droid and wearing armor take that to 10. This is very achievable in a handful of sessions by any marauder. This is not "extreme XP" and it is not gimping the character, this is, hey we've been playing for a month, hurray!

It's nice your group doesn't mind having a 13 soak character in the party, mine however would get pretty tired of all the NPCs doing the stupidest thing imaginable and firing at the hard to kill droid rather than taking out the squishy guys who also have blasters and are shooting their buddies in the face with them.

It seems you are still missing the points I was making and focusing solely on the problem you perceive. Other people on this thread seem to be catching on to what I (and some of the others) have been saying. I won't be responding to any more of your posts. I'm sorry it had to come to this.

@Everyone Else, keep up the great discussion. I think this thread has been mostly very constructive with a lot of GMs and players posting their experiences about how 10+ soak is more about saying "yes" than ruining the game for the other PCs.

I'm coming in a bit late to this, but I have to put in my opinion. I've got a player who has a wardroid with obscenely high soak, high strength, and he can make mincemeat of pretty much any minion. (Actually, it's the same player JasonRR was discussing.)

Here's the thing--he's not invulnerable. Yes, in a group fight he's going to have the advantage because he can take more hits. He's got the armor and he's got the soak, but he can be outnumbered by minion groups attacking him from long range, his defense can be reduced almost to nothing with an accurate 2 weapon and a brace or aim maneuver (assuming boost and setback dice are the same), and he's got cybernetics, which means one hit with an ion blaster that penetrates that soak by even one point, and he's going to be useless.

Plus, more soak generally equals more equipment, and more equipment equals more chances for things to go wrong. All the soak in the world isn't going to help when you go up against someone with the Adversary talent and the Despair gets thrown. Which it will eventually. Equipment breaks down--it's a fact of life in this game.

If you want to be vindictive, give one of the higher opponents the ability to act twice in a round. It's within the GM's rights to do this, and even if the opponent can only do 1-2 points of damage, that still gives her four maneuvers to take. Keep the opponent away from the droid.

What about strain inflicting attacks? Politicos were mentioned, and having a politico at the back demoralizing a high-soak player as he's taking strain from Threat dice can take that player out of the fight pretty fast.

Of course, you can also mix it up--have a decent combat related adversary attack a low-soak player! Think about what the high-soak player will have to do to keep opponents from K.O.ing the other players, especially if the high-soak player is just an obstacle that needs to be avoided!

Also, environment--big factor. High soak makes snipers less lethal, but it's such a distraction when someone is shooting at you from extreme distance! I've noticed that soak doesn't really apply to long falls, either. One challenging Athletics check blown, and you could be at the bottom of a pit, hoping the healer has a spare kit handy. Narrow hallways are great for setting up an ambush, and soak just doesn't appy to snare traps or resilience checks.

Soak also doesn't come into play when the Force is used. It will make getting hit with a boulder less damaging, but if a fallen Jedi lifts a PC up and throws them an extreme distance away they can't do anything about it.

What about ship-to-ship combat? Soak doesn't matter when you're fighting Z-95 headhunters in a Ghtroc Freighter.

However, there are all sorts of non-combat skills that this game should encompass, especially if the GM is halfway competent. High soak does no good when negotiating with a Hutt, trying to get some black market goods, resisting interrogation, trying to sweet talk a guard into letting them into the port administrator's office, shutting down a tractor beam, figuring out which criminal organization looks after its freelancers the best, interrogating an informant about a bounty's location, sneaking past that AT-AT or trying to fast talk his way out of a bounty. If you try to fight your way through any of this, the GM is well within his rights to stack the odds against the PC, and a 20 to 1 fight is still not going to turn out well for a PC, no matter what kind of soak he has. Don't forget about Destiny Points and the red dice they can summon, either!

I think a PC who is a terror in combat is always daunting for a GM of any experience. When the PC in my game took down a two-man minion group in one round, I have to admit I wondered what I was going to do. However, his soak didn't stop me from knocking him down and losing his weapon when said minion group blasted him and got a Triumph, and in this next session there will be combat, and I guarantee the high-soak PC will find himself wondering how he's going to get out of the mess he's in, along with the rest of the group.

Personally, I like when PCs get scarily good at something. It forces me to step up my game, and that's something that will benefit the whole group.

I don't think you quite understood me. As other posters have mentioned, using your environment includes having occasional snipers, bogging down the field with minions, forcing the PCs to make non-combat skill checks (Coordination, Vigilance, etc), among other things. These are all tools you should be doing anyway to spice up your encounters regardless of PC soak levels. How does that mean nothing?

I never said have *only* social encounters, but this game is begging for a good mix of everything. Combat, Social, Environmental, and Starship/Vehicle.

I'm sorry the term "turning the tables" was interpreted as "make the game not fun." That is not what I meant, rather "make the game a challenge." Challenging your PCs in the right way is essential to the fun of this game (and any RPG really) and it is far better than the alternative.

Sure, 5 Brawn is easy for many characters, but 5 Brawn, 10+ soak, and being good at much else is not unless you have very extreme XP levels. 5 Brawn on its own will net you at most 8 soak and may weapons can eat through that enough to challenge your 5 Brawn socialite.

My goal is to be constructive, but going around telling people their posts "mean nothing" doesn't help the conversation or propose any solution to those that are really interested in overcoming this challenge.

Again is not about game rules balance, its about having the right encounter balance. And that requires a skilled GM or a dedicated one who is really willing to put the effort to make everyone feel valued.

Also, as I mentioned, my group has a 13 soak 6 Brawn battledroid. No one considers him a superhero and my mechanic has had to spend a lot of time repairing him.

Again, your "solution" of snipers and minions do not address the problem the disparity between player defense. They in fact ARE the problem the sniper will be killing all the other characters and only annoying the high soak character. Same with the minions.

Again, you keep thinking that 10 soak is some extreme cost. It isn't. Brawn 4 is very easy to get, cybernetics to take it to 5 is cheap. 2 ranks of enduring cost 40. Being a droid and wearing armor take that to 10. This is very achievable in a handful of sessions by any marauder. This is not "extreme XP" and it is not gimping the character, this is, hey we've been playing for a month, hurray!

It's nice your group doesn't mind having a 13 soak character in the party, mine however would get pretty tired of all the NPCs doing the stupidest thing imaginable and firing at the hard to kill droid rather than taking out the squishy guys who also have blasters and are shooting their buddies in the face with them.

Because mooks are well known for their fire discipline and their willingness to be torn limb from limb by ignoring the obvious threat. The are also well known for knowing who in an enemy group has what soak.

PCs have a very distinctive walk, I guess.

Like I said before, my players would be far more annoyed with the combat monster's one dimensionality than the fact that he hogs all the kills. As a matter of fact, seeing as how hard it is to get them into a fight in the first place, it would be the combat monster that has the problem, not the others.

Even then, if your players cant find their own trouble when the combat monster is busy, then they arent trying very hard.

I guess there is not much more to say about this.

With a little effort on the search engine of these forums, one can find more than a few threads discussing high soak characters. To me this means that it is (sadly) a relatively common issue, which arises due to how this game has been design.

My concern is that high soak does not feel very Star Wars, it looks like more a manga cartoon style thing. Make a reflection, can anyone imagine a Star Wars character, let's say Jabba the Hutt, or Boba Fett, or Chewbacca (or any other), laughing at a bounty hunter pointing him with a blaster pistol because he knows that the shot will bounce off due to his high soak? What a turn off! We all remember the fantastic scene where Darth Vader stops the shots of Han Solo's blaster pistol with his hand, and how all the main characters realise at that moment how screwed they are. In this SW rpg, you don't need to be a Sith Lord to do this, neither will Han Solo be surprised by the fact that Vader soaked his blaster pistol fire, indeed Han probably would not have even shot, because with damage 6 half the galaxy bad guys will only be tickled by it.

Said that, there is not only one way to deal with that "issue"; I modified the rules, others adapt their encounters to pose a thread to the tank (without killing the rest of the party), others kill the soak monster and go for a new PC...but it is an issue, otherwise would not be so many discussions about it.

Cheers,

Yepes

Technically, if you wanted it to feel Star Warsy, no one would get hit in the first place. One solid hit and you would be, most likely, dead. You can't do that, though, because that doesn't sound like too much fun to most people playing. And this only seems to be a problem for some GMs. Not everything that is a problem is a flaw of the game. Sometimes it is a flaw of the people playing the game.

Technically, if you wanted it to feel Star Warsy, no one would get hit in the first place. One solid hit and you would be, most likely, dead. You can't do that, though, because that doesn't sound like too much fun to most people playing. And this only seems to be a problem for some GMs. Not everything that is a problem is a flaw of the game. Sometimes it is a flaw of the people playing the game.

It is a matter of taste, and also in my opinion of the setting where you want to play. There are great games were with one or two solid hits your PC is out, and not because of this the game is boring, on the contrary. Can you imagine playing the Call Cthulhu with a tank character who can stand the blows of most of the monsters? It will break the atmosphere pretended for the game. I have a similar feeling with the soak issue in this setting. Therefore, for me this is a flaw of an otherwise great system. It fails to catch the combat atmosphere of the Star Wars universe, were hiding, cover and running and jumping is vital. I think, for SW combat, a system without soak and hit points fits better. for example a system based only in wounds severity.

On the contrary, I find it a great mechanic to evoke other universes, like Warhammer 40K, or epic fantasy, where heroes survive rains of blows.

Cheers,

Yepes

Shrug. Guess you'll have to wait for someone else to design the game if you want wounds. While I like this system better than d20, I've never felt it wasn't Star Wars. The mechanics may influence how I enjoy the game, they don't affect me otherwise. I still felt like I was playing Star Wars in d20.