Response: After a character card is discarded from an opponent's deck, put that card into play under your control. At the end of the phase, return that character to its owner's discard pile.

Does this mean the card is returned to the owners discard pile (At the end the phase) regardless of what happened in between - i.e. if it was killed, over even removed from play

Cards typically say "if it is still in play" - so I don't know if this one is different to the norm

I've got a follow up question for this event card in conjunction with Euron's Mongrel and unique cards

Euron's Mongrel is:

Limited Response: After a card is discarded from a player's deck, kneel Euron's Mongrel or kneel a Warship location to choose and discard 1 copy of that card from play. (Limit 1 limited response per round.)

• I trigger an effect which discards an unique character from the top of an opponent's deck
• I kneel a warship and discard a copy of that unique character from play (Presumably it is in moribund at this stage)
• I play the even card (River Raid) ... can I put the unique character into play ..

I am assuming I would not be able to put the unique character into play if I had not discarded my opponents copy from play (as that would be the same unique character, with the same owner, on multiple sides)

However, does the card discarded from play, being in moribund, still prevent me from putting the copy into play?

thanks

I've got a follow up question for this event card in conjunction with Euron's Mongrel and unique cards

Euron's Mongrel is:

Limited Response: After a card is discarded from a player's deck, kneel Euron's Mongrel or kneel a Warship location to choose and discard 1 copy of that card from play. (Limit 1 limited response per round.)

• I trigger an effect which discards an unique character from the top of an opponent's deck
• I kneel a warship and discard a copy of that unique character from play (Presumably it is in moribund at this stage)
• I play the even card (River Raid) ... can I put the unique character into play ..

I am assuming I would not be able to put the unique character into play if I had not discarded my opponents copy from play (as that would be the same unique character, with the same owner, on multiple sides)

However, does the card discarded from play, being in moribund, still prevent me from putting the copy into play?

thanks

There's no conflict here; the unique card *is* moribund, but it being in play doesn't stop you from taking control of it, Unless you have a copy of that same character in your dead pile. However, it will prevent your opponent from playing a copy of the card, so long as you have one of his in play.

Core Rulebook:

Thanks Istaril

The rules seem to relate to the owner of the card and not to someone taking control

Maybe my first assumption incorrect?

i.e. An unique character is discarded from my opponent's desk and he aleady has a copy of that unique character in play

Am I allowed to put the discarded card into play under my control?

Every other eventuality is covered by the FAQ specifically (It never says you can't take control of a copy your opponent has, or that your opponent can't do the same to you), so we're left pretty much certain that the core rule stipulation of " Each player may only have one copy of a unique card in play " refers only to control, not to ownership of the card.

This stems from assuming that "You may not take control of a unique card already in play that you own

or control, or that is in your dead pile." is an exhaustive list of all the restrictions to taking control of a unique card.

okay - so I am pretty sure that I can take control of an opponents unique character, i.e. one that has been discarded, regardless of

a) Whether my opponent has a copy of that card in play

b) Whether my opponent has a copy of that character in their dead pile

My opponent's would not allow me to do that last night - one had Stanis in their dead pile and I had just triggered the discard from thier deck of another copy

I'm still not sure what happens if the character I take control off gets killed ... as River Raid says return the card to my opponents discard pile at the end of the phase

I also had (in the same discard event) the option of taking control of the Red Viper - the one that is immune to events

I did not know whether the Red Viper's immunity applied when he is in the discard pile and is not in play?

My opponent's would not allow me to do that last night - one had Stanis in their dead pile and I had just triggered the discard from thier deck of another copy

Istaril is correct, your opponents were not. The rules for unique are written from "your" point of view. When you were trying to put Stannis into play, did you own or control another copy in play or in your dead pile? Doesn't matter that someone else owned the copy you were trying to put into play.

I'm still not sure what happens if the character I take control off gets killed ... as River Raid says return the card to my opponents discard pile at the end of the phase

I did not know whether the Red Viper's immunity applied when he is in the discard pile and is not in play?

The answer to these two questions are based on the same thing. Unless a card specifically says otherwise, its effects only work while in play, and only work on cards that are in play. That means the Viper's immunity is only active while the character is in play. The card is not immune to events (like River Raid) while it is in your discard pile. Similarly, the lasting effect of River Raid does not say "no matter where that card is at the end of the phase," so unless it is still in play, the "return to its owner's discard pile" has nothing to resolve on. (I.e., if the character you take control of dies, it goes to its owner's dead pile - and stays there.)

And yes, that means the "if it is still in play" text that FFG often puts on these kinds of cards is not technically needed, but people tend to ask the question a lot, so it works as something of a pre-emptive ruling.

A big thanks Ktom ... my opponents are stubborn but they will collapse in the face of you wise words!

It sounds like your opponents are falling prey to the common misconception that the rules for unique outlaw particular results - when they really outlaw particular actions that players may take.

For example, you cannot play or put into play a copy of a unique card if there is already another copy in your dead pile, right? That's not actually the same thing as "it is illegal to have a copy of a unique card in play and in your dead pile at the same time." There are legal ways for that situation to happen. You play Copy #1, then an effect moves Copy #2 from your hand, discard pile, or deck directly to your dead pile without putting it into play first - the fact that Copy #2 is now in your dead pile does not make it "retroactively" illegal for you to have played Copy #1. It's similar with your Stannis example. It is not an illegal "game state" for Player A and Player B to both control copies of Stannis that are owned by Player A - it is illegal for Player A to himself play or put into play a second copy of Stannis while he owns another copy in play (no matter who controls it). They're not the same thing.

I've run into that situation too - thinks it's Naggas Hill that allows you to move a character from the discard to dead pile after winning an unopposed challenge ... which caused a bit of confusion first time when the same character was also in play (we correctly allowed the player to keep the character in play)

Thr other benefit that was hoping to achieve was to get the Stanis I took control off killed and then there would be two separate Stanii in the dead pile - very difficult to resurect

Be aware that the core of this game's mechanics effectively shatter thematically logical thinking. So that may in part be where you're getting some struggles. Stannis being dead and yet being in play is antithematic, but correct within the framework of the rules.

Stannis being dead and yet being in play is antithematic,

I don't think I agree with this. Think about all the times Berric was dead, but in play. Or think about the fact that most everyone thinks Bran and Rickon are dead, but we know they're in play. It may not be logical (in a linear logic kind of way) that, under the rules, Stannis can be "dead" and "in play" at the same time, but given the world GRRM has created, I really don't see it as "anti-thematic."