Why not just take the poor versions of weapons for mooks ?

Works... sometimes. I have issues with the quality system as well, but mostly minor niggles and I realise that fixing them would complicated matters more than the Dev team seems to like.

Just make The Inquisitors Handbook 2.0.

...but with an index, right?

Because poor versions only gain Unreliable but otherwise can do everything the original can.

If i want to display a downtrodden person/group with inferior equipment an unreliable autogun is just not going to cut it (still autofires 10 shots and can rip the PCs apart) but a really piss-poor excuse of an autogun barely capable of firing up to 5 bullets in full-auto.

Not a shiny/muddy combat shotgun but a cobbled together Meat Hammer.

I put a lot of emphasis in my groups on the locale, including specific weapons, titles, gangs, sports, sport teams and such. Makes it feel more alive.

Just make The Inquisitors Handbook 2.0.

...but with an index, right?

A radical i see?! An index would be nice, yeah. That god I have it hardback and pdf. SEARCH BUTTON I LOVE YOU! <3

oh, and have all the stat tables in the back!

oh, and have all the stat tables in the back!

Otherwise it'll be as much of a doorstop to me as the old IH.

oh, and have all the stat tables in the back!

..with page references to where the description can be found, please.

Otherwise it'll be as much of a doorstop to me as the old IH.

Agreed! 110%. I LOVE weapons with a minor extra text based penalty or benefit but i kinda want it to be easy to reference said rule when a player asks.

Personally, don't want xenos or abhumans. Especially not ogryns after having to deal with one in Only War as a Game Master. When you need a heavy bolter to pose any sort of threat (at least until true grit comes into play) it just gets ridiculous and RP wise increadibly boring as ogryns make orks seem like complex individuals.

I agree with your other suggestions, but I think abhumans are long overdue in DH . Frankly I'm shocked that it took 'til Only War for abhumans to make an appearance in WH40KRP (excepting the Hive Mutant background from The Radical's Handbook , which is kinda but not really an abhuman). Seriously, playable xenos were a thing long before playable abhumans? What sense does that make?

I would want DH abhumans to be handled better than they were in OW , however. In OW , abhumans are fixed 'careers' more than races, and they can't really take any career path other than a narrow, stereotypical interpretation of their most common role.

But THEN, Felinids! Catgirl Inquisitors! Madness reigning!

Because poor versions only gain Unreliable but otherwise can do everything the original can. If i want to display a downtrodden person/group with inferior equipment an unreliable autogun is just not going to cut it (still autofires 10 shots and can rip the PCs apart) but a really piss-poor excuse of an autogun barely capable of firing up to 5 bullets in full-auto. Not a shiny/muddy combat shotgun but a cobbled together Meat Hammer. I put a lot of emphasis in my groups on the locale, including specific weapons, titles, gangs, sports, sport teams and such. Makes it feel more alive.

The OW Hammer of the Emperor Variant rules help with this and with a good book full of neat items and then this on top it for more variety?

PS: When it comes to inferior gear etc: I love when players go for a certain style in their characters. Maybe a gun slinger, or a lasnut. It doesn't matter. But if they want to minmax, then so will I.

Just make The Inquisitors Handbook 2.0.

My Arbites uses pretty much exclusively western guns, revolvers, pump action, lever action, etc and disdains full and semi auto weapons.

Personally, don't want xenos or abhumans. Especially not ogryns after having to deal with one in Only War as a Game Master. When you need a heavy bolter to pose any sort of threat (at least until true grit comes into play) it just gets ridiculous and RP wise increadibly boring as ogryns make orks seem like complex individuals.

I agree with your other suggestions, but I think abhumans are long overdue in DH . Frankly I'm shocked that it took 'til Only War for abhumans to make an appearance in WH40KRP (excepting the Hive Mutant background from The Radical's Handbook , which is kinda but not really an abhuman). Seriously, playable xenos were a thing long before playable abhumans? What sense does that make? I would want DH abhumans to be handled better than they were in OW , however. In OW , abhumans are fixed 'careers' more than races, and they can't really take any career path other than a narrow, stereotypical interpretation of their most common role.

I think it is more than time for abhumand AND Xenos to be playable in DH.

The Ordo Xenos could be great for such opportunities to introduce sanctioned xenos.

The eldar have such a deep and rich culture, that it would be great to have a whole supplement just dedicated to them, including. options for playable eldar for dh (pathfinders / rangers could make sense).

The other race that might be integrated are the tau. Also rather deep and rich, they share with the eldar, that they are not really looking like a human, but they can be made to blend in wth some effort in disguise (or helmets ). And even humans from different worlds differ in their appearance very much - the average imperial citizen probably wouldnt even recognize an eldar as xenos at all, if he tries to behave subtle.

As abhumans, ogryns might not quite be to the inquisition standards they might be good for very direct approaches, but for everything else, they are both too unsubtle and too incapable.

Ratlongs and perhaps squats are a different thing. They could blend in very well.

Therefore I would wish for those playable additional races:

- Eldar

- Tau

- Ratling

- Squat

- a unique xenos to the Askellon sector

None of those until at least a while, humans need more focus for the new options before anything like that.

Personally, don't want xenos or abhumans. Especially not ogryns after having to deal with one in Only War as a Game Master. When you need a heavy bolter to pose any sort of threat (at least until true grit comes into play) it just gets ridiculous and RP wise increadibly boring as ogryns make orks seem like complex individuals.

I agree with your other suggestions, but I think abhumans are long overdue in DH . Frankly I'm shocked that it took 'til Only War for abhumans to make an appearance in WH40KRP (excepting the Hive Mutant background from The Radical's Handbook , which is kinda but not really an abhuman). Seriously, playable xenos were a thing long before playable abhumans? What sense does that make? I would want DH abhumans to be handled better than they were in OW , however. In OW , abhumans are fixed 'careers' more than races, and they can't really take any career path other than a narrow, stereotypical interpretation of their most common role.

I think it is more than time for abhumand AND Xenos to be playable in DH.

The Ordo Xenos could be great for such opportunities to introduce sanctioned xenos.

The eldar have such a deep and rich culture, that it would be great to have a whole supplement just dedicated to them, including. options for playable eldar for dh (pathfinders / rangers could make sense).

The other race that might be integrated are the tau. Also rather deep and rich, they share with the eldar, that they are not really looking like a human, but they can be made to blend in wth some effort in disguise (or helmets ). And even humans from different worlds differ in their appearance very much - the average imperial citizen probably wouldnt even recognize an eldar as xenos at all, if he tries to behave subtle.

As abhumans, ogryns might not quite be to the inquisition standards they might be good for very direct approaches, but for everything else, they are both too unsubtle and too incapable.

Ratlongs and perhaps squats are a different thing. They could blend in very well.

Therefore I would wish for those playable additional races:

- Eldar

- Tau

- Ratling

- Squat

- a unique xenos to the Askellon sector

I'm not against people getting their xenos fix, far from it. Exept it would detract from time/pages spent on humans. I can't see eldar RP'ed properly though. A race who probably wouldn't sacrifice one of theirs to save/kill a planet with billions of humans in a cooperative investigation game?

I just wouldn't buy that supplement because it's not what I look for in Dark Heresy. Maybe others would and more power to them for it. But I can only speak for myself and I'd give it a pass. And the first supplement really should try to be a must have for every player group, not one specific one any one ordos.

If you can play elves in other games - you also can play Eldar in 40k.

Yes, Eldar are very different than humans. But so are elves in most fantasy games - never the less they are playable.

And the inquisition is one of the few instances - besides rogue traders - who might sanction their use if needed.

An eldar might very well cooperate with the inquisition, and he would also sacrifice his life. IF it serves his own mysterious agenda.

It is time for some new stuff - and Xenos in DH would be a nice addition.

None of those until at least a while, humans need more focus for the new options before anything like that.

There is no reason not to give both some love.

The more pagecount devoted to one, the less the other can have.

I'd prefer to keep alternate racial options to a separate splat.

None of those until at least a while, humans need more focus for the new options before anything like that.

There is no reason not to give both some love.

Agreeing with Tom Cruise, there is a good reason. Page count.

Yes, you can play elves in other games. Do you know how they're played as? Agile humans with pointy ears and an extra digit in the "age" section of their character sheet. And most of those games do now have the same level of xenophobia as 40k. A bit of racism, yes. Sanctioned would mean subtletly is ruined from day 1 as EVERYONE would know about them, most would hate them and pious would try to kill them. I dislike the xeno bit for alot of reaons, both gameplay wise, narrative wise and just plain roleplaying perspective.

Maybe you have very different players then the ones I'm used to.

That an ordo xenos book or "Sanctioned xenos" book is relased, YES. By all means. I won't buy it but I wouldn't want to deprive others of it. But as a first supplement book? No. It should almost be a musthave for everyone.

Splitting aliens/abhumans/etc into their own book also means the systems that support them can be developed in a lot more depth than they would being crammed into another book.

As usual I'm trying to jump in the bus while it's already running with a bomb strapped to it, but just to make sure, the current discussion is regarding including Xenos / Abhumans / other heretic offences to the sanctity of the human genome in a source book, and whether it should or not be a priority, right?

If so, I very much agree that it's time to have Eldars as playable race, specially considering that we currently are in a very strange position of having playable Deldars, but not normal Eldars.

I wouldn't think it would fit in the first source book for the game, though.

If I might offer a suggestion, I'd go with, in this order:

1. Inquisitor's Handbook 2.0, without aliens, but with some taste of abhumans, just to make us want more;
2. Adversaries (with a pretty faux-latin title);
3. A sector gazetteer - a type of source book I believe DH really could use;
4. Hereticus;
5. Xenos - maybe with rules for playing Xenos, what do you think?
6. Malleus;
7. A full-scale Eldar source book;

What do you think?

@Cymbel: Well shave my nuts and call me Skippy, i knew i forgot something! (Bonus points if you name the movie i just quoted)

I DO own a pdf of HotE but did not think about that chapter. And from personal experience since in the 90's when the Arsenal 2060 allowed the shadowrunners to build their own guns i am not exactly a big fan of the design-your-own-supergun chapter/option. Sooner or later one player IS going to abuse it.

@Ghaundan: Sadly you are right. I have in over 17 years of playing never seen a real Elf-player.

As usual I'm trying to jump in the bus while it's already running with a bomb strapped to it, but just to make sure, the current discussion is regarding including Xenos / Abhumans / other heretic offences to the sanctity of the human genome in a source book, and whether it should or not be a priority, right?If so, I very much agree that it's time to have Eldars as playable race, specially considering that we currently are in a very strange position of having playable Deldars, but not normal Eldars.I wouldn't think it would fit in the first source book for the game, though.If I might offer a suggestion, I'd go with, in this order:

• Inquisitor's Handbook 2.0, without aliens, but with some taste of abhumans, just to make us want more;
• Adversaries (with a pretty faux-latin title);
• A sector gazetteer - a type of source book I believe DH really could use;
• Hereticus;
• Xenos - maybe with rules for playing Xenos, what do you think?
• Malleus;
• A full-scale Eldar source book;

What do you think?

Add the following and its perfect:

- adepta supplement (administratum, mechanicus, arbites, telepathica)

- radicals handbook second edition (just love this one)

- supplement about nobility, cartells and diplomacy

I just love the idea of an own eldar suplement for DH.

Something like "Treacherous allies"

-

As usual I'm trying to jump in the bus while it's already running with a bomb strapped to it, but just to make sure, the current discussion is regarding including Xenos / Abhumans / other heretic offences to the sanctity of the human genome in a source book, and whether it should or not be a priority, right?If so, I very much agree that it's time to have Eldars as playable race, specially considering that we currently are in a very strange position of having playable Deldars, but not normal Eldars.I wouldn't think it would fit in the first source book for the game, though.If I might offer a suggestion, I'd go with, in this order:

• Inquisitor's Handbook 2.0, without aliens, but with some taste of abhumans, just to make us want more;
• Adversaries (with a pretty faux-latin title);
• A sector gazetteer - a type of source book I believe DH really could use;
• Hereticus;
• Xenos - maybe with rules for playing Xenos, what do you think?
• Malleus;
• A full-scale Eldar source book;

What do you think?

Add the following and its perfect:

- adepta supplement (administratum, mechanicus, arbites, telepathica)

- radicals handbook second edition (just love this one)

- supplement about nobility, cartells and diplomacy

I just love the idea of an own eldar suplement for DH.

Something like "Treacherous allies"

-

Ok, let me just get my wallet...

By the way, let me make it clear I wouldn't actually mind having Eldars as a chapter in a Xenos source book, but I believe they deserve a book of their own.

40k is a somewhat intolerant setting for other races, elfdar stick out too easily if their own arrogance didn't give them away, ogryn are too dumb for an investigation game. Ratlings MIGHT work, but what do they bring? The other abhumans all stick out in their own way, Kroot won't work, I could never see an Ork working either. RTs can break the rules a bit because they spend most of their time out of the imperium, while acolytes are the exact opposite. MAYBE in a future book they can have an addon like Grey Knights did for Malleus. But for the most important book? The Inquisitor's Handbook of DH2? No thanks. Look at how much skimpier Into the Storm is compared to the Inquisitor's Handbook, it tried to do too much and ended up spread too shin, while the Handbook is thick and packed full.

And from personal experience since in the 90's when the Arsenal 2060 allowed the shadowrunners to build their own guns i am not exactly a big fan of the design-your-own-supergun chapter/option. Sooner or later one player IS going to abuse it.

40k is a somewhat intolerant setting for other races, elfdar stick out too easily if their own arrogance didn't give them away, ogryn are too dumb for an investigation game. Ratlings MIGHT work, but what do they bring? The other abhumans all stick out in their own way, Kroot won't work, I could never see an Ork working either. RTs can break the rules a bit because they spend most of their time out of the imperium, while acolytes are the exact opposite. MAYBE in a future book they can have an addon like Grey Knights did for Malleus. But for the most important book? The Inquisitor's Handbook of DH2? No thanks. Look at how much skimpier Into the Storm is compared to the Inquisitor's Handbook, it tried to do too much and ended up spread too shin, while the Handbook is thick and packed full.

Although I believe that there is a place for aliens and abhumans in a DH game (not in not most games and, ironically, seeing as how I defend it so much, not in most of my games), I heartily agree with your second point.

The Imperial Handbook is a much better book than Into the Storm, and the new one should follow its footsteps.

Can't say I agree with this. Both were very useful in their own right and I found both to be indispensable to the games I ran! I do agree that the first supplement should be more geared toward useful add-ons for everyone rather than Niche products like xenos! Besides; I think playable Xenos more belong in the realm of Rogue trader or perhaps only war than in DH. The only thing is they work better when used independently of humans entirely! I've seen numerous threads over the years for playing an Orcish or DE RT game.I never did understand why ffg never went with Tau or Eldar game supplements since they would seem to be the most "playable" of the Xenos races in 40k. I would suspect this could be achieved in a "Xeno-compendius" but that would be a large supplement and would more properly belong in RT. (Or as we've seen before game 6 )