When you purchase a new specialization outside of your original career, do you receive that talents career skills as career skills for yourself, OR ,that talents Bonus Career skills as career skills for yourself?

You only receive the specialty's bonus career skills. So if you were a Hired Gun buying into Politico, you would get Charm, Deception, Core Worlds and Coercion as class skills but not Leadership, Negotiation, Streetwise, Education, or Lore.

Thank you, appreciate the response.

You only receive the specialty's bonus career skills. So if you were a Hired Gun buying into Politico, you would get Charm, Deception, Core Worlds and Coercion as class skills but not Leadership, Negotiation, Streetwise, Education, or Lore.

After reading over the CRB I was under the impression that got all the skills are career skills.

It becomes confusing when speaking of careers and specializations from the skills standpoint. Even on the character sheet it only asks if the skill is a career skill or not. So it seemed to me that the skills you get from your specialization are in fact career skills as well. And, while I don't have the book in front of me, I don't remember it specifying the difference between "career skills" and "specialization skills" when purchasing a new specialization tree.

CRB p. 93 speaks specifically about acquiring new specializations and how that specialization's career skills then become career skills for the player.

I think the skills that come from the specializations are specifically called bonus career skills if that helps.

The CRB says:

"In addition, each specialization has career skills. These skills now count as career skills for the character."

On each of the talent trees, the skills are either labeled "Career Skills" or "Bonus Career Skills," as Ahrimon mentioned. So, if purchasing a talent tree outside of your chosen career did not yield you all of the skills that go with it, the above line should read:

"In addition, each specialization has bonus career skills. These skills now count as career skills for the character."

So with that in mind, I believe that if you buy a talent tree, career or none career, you get all the skills associated with that tree as career skills, since it doesn't specify that only the bonus career skills become new career skills. If I am wrong I am willing to accept that, but the way the book reads leads me to believe otherwise.

The CRB says:

"In addition, each specialization has career skills. These skills now count as career skills for the character."

On each of the talent trees, the skills are either labeled "Career Skills" or "Bonus Career Skills," as Ahrimon mentioned. So, if purchasing a talent tree outside of your chosen career did not yield you all of the skills that go with it, the above line should read:

"In addition, each specialization has bonus career skills. These skills now count as career skills for the character."

So with that in mind, I believe that if you buy a talent tree, career or none career, you get all the skills associated with that tree as career skills, since it doesn't specify that only the bonus career skills become new career skills. If I am wrong I am willing to accept that, but the way the book reads leads me to believe otherwise.

You're nitpicking, the section is talking about acquiring other specializations. The character creation section spells it out when it says no matter how many things Han Solo became involved in he will always be a Smuggler. You get one career.

The reason I asked this to begin with, is that myself and the GM of our group, see this differently. I see it as the bonus career skills, and he did not, thus I came here to ask, and it seems it's a common debate. The reason I think it's the bonus career skills and NOT the career skills is: by purchasing a talent tree within your primary career, you already have those career skills, you just don't have the bonus ones. Why would you get more of a bonus buying outside your career, than within?

For the lack of the adjective "bonus" those that think this means they get all the skills is taking that lack of a word as an excuse to nitpick. It's taking the whole notion out of the context of the section it is written in. By that logic as there is no mention of players receiving the "bonus" career skills a player should not have access to the bonus career skills as it only says "career" skills. Completely silly imo.

You're nitpicking, the section is talking about acquiring other specializations. The character creation section spells it out when it says no matter how many things Han Solo became involved in he will always be a Smuggler. You get one career.

I wasn't trying to nitpick, but I see your point. Even though the book is unclear in my opinion, you are purchasing the specialization, not the entire career. So you would only receive the skills associated with the specialization.

For the lack of the adjective "bonus" those that think this means they get all the skills is taking that lack of a word as an excuse to nitpick. It's taking the whole notion out of the context of the section it is written in. By that logic as there is no mention of players receiving the "bonus" career skills a player should not have access to the bonus career skills as it only says "career" skills. Completely silly imo.

I feel you might be mischaracterizing the argument.

As I've recently discovered (I lucked into another game's Beta), nitpicking of wording is important in RPG books. Grammatically and through common sense (including context clues), I could approach the "bonus", "career", and "specialization" skill argument from a couple different directions, for and against. (I'm happy to share if anyone cares.) That I can see different arguments means there is room for debate, and no one here is being "silly".

I would encourage fellow GMs to resolve it as benefits their games. My current campaign features a small party, and I would be loathe to limit their ability to broaden their skillsets. However, if I were to run another game that has more players, then I would strongly consider limiting them to only gaining the "Specialization Skills" from any new Specializations they purchase.

The reason I asked this to begin with, is that myself and the GM of our group, see this differently. I see it as the bonus career skills, and he did not, thus I came here to ask, and it seems it's a common debate. The reason I think it's the bonus career skills and NOT the career skills is: by purchasing a talent tree within your primary career, you already have those career skills, you just don't have the bonus ones. Why would you get more of a bonus buying outside your career, than within?

I assumed that is why buying into another career costs more, because you were getting more out of it.

I assumed that is why buying into another career costs more, because you were getting more out of it.

This had crossed my mind as well.

For the lack of the adjective "bonus" those that think this means they get all the skills is taking that lack of a word as an excuse to nitpick. It's taking the whole notion out of the context of the section it is written in. By that logic as there is no mention of players receiving the "bonus" career skills a player should not have access to the bonus career skills as it only says "career" skills. Completely silly imo.

I feel you might be mischaracterizing the argument.

As I've recently discovered (I lucked into another game's Beta), nitpicking of wording is important in RPG books. Grammatically and through common sense (including context clues), I could approach the "bonus", "career", and "specialization" skill argument from a couple different directions, for and against. (I'm happy to share if anyone cares.) That I can see different arguments means there is room for debate, and no one here is being "silly".

I would encourage fellow GMs to resolve it as benefits their games. My current campaign features a small party, and I would be loathe to limit their ability to broaden their skillsets. However, if I were to run another game that has more players, then I would strongly consider limiting them to only gaining the "Specialization Skills" from any new Specializations they purchase.

I agree with all of this. I'm in no position to say I'm right, or wrong. I just assume that when one purchases a specialization within their career, that all they really get is the bonus skills, that it would carry to the non-career specialization as well. The extra xp spent on specialization is for the ability to go down a new talent tree, as well as the bonus skills that became "new" career skills, thus saving you 5xp a purchase further down the line.

The xp saved by only giving the bonus skills would be, 4 skills at 5xp per rank, so 100 xp saved. By getting all career skills and "bonus" skills, that's 12 skills, a saving of 300xp. That's an impressive savings for the ten xp spent on the non-career specialization. This also assumes none of the skills are in the the first career, or first specialization.

If my math is wrong above, feel free to let me know. I'm, by no means, suggesting "I'm right", it's just how I see things, and let's be honest...I've played only long enough to buy one extra specialization...

I've been reading and rereading the section on specialization since I saw this thread last night.

I think you are meant to recieve both sets of skills as career skills.

My son is playing a Smuggler Pilot. Let's say he decides to buy the Bounty Hunter Gadgeteer specialization.

Taking out the skills he already has from being a pilot he would only gain 6 new career skills with no ranks in any of them.

Let's do some math.

My son used all his starting xp in creating his pilot.

To buy the Bounty Hunter Gadgeteer spec would cost 30xp.

To buy 1 rank in each of the new career skills would cost 30xp.

According to the section "Awarding Experience Points " on page 301 of the Core Rulebook a character should get 10 - 20 xp per gaming session.

If he recieves the max he has 60xp after 3 gaming sessions.

So to buy the Gadgeteer and 1 rank in the new career skills he would gain and spend xp as follows.

xp gain xp spent

1st session 20 0

2nd session 20 30xp -gadgeteer spec 10xp skills(Athletics and Brawl)

3rd session 20 20xp skills (Ranged Heavy, Coercion, Mechanics and Ranged light)

So after 3 gaming sessions none of your characteristics (brawn etc.) or skills have increased and you have gained no new talents in your chosen carreer as a Pilot.

I don't think this would unbalance things in the characters favor at all.By his 4th session he should be coming up against some more difficult opponents and he is still just a novice pilot.

Now if your GM throws around Xp like candy on Halloween, that's another thing entirely.

Sorry for the really long post.

I agree that I don't think it will be unbalanced, and most certainly don't mind your long post. I do however believe that it gives too much. Reading the CRB, it does indeed say you receive all the career skills. However, it also says that each specialization has career skills...which it don't, each profession does, then each specialization has it's own unique bonus career skills.

I seem to be in the minority on this subject, which I have no problem with. i started this thread to see if there was a definite answer, but it seems there is not one. In regards to your sons character, it seems he could have advanced as a pilot, he just chose to upgrade the Gadgeteer part of his character, which is a choice he will have to make from hence forward, with or without the Career skills, or Bonus Career skills.

At any rate, I thank everyone that put in their opinion, I look forward to reading future posts.

I actually had a quick read of the Acquiring New Specializations on CRB pg 93 and it is fairly easy to understand.

Purchasing a specialization is basically the character buying the ability to purchase talents within that specialization. In addition, each specialization has career skills.

Now, I know people nitpick and I tend to be one of them as well BUT this clearly states each Specialization has it's own career skills that differ from the other specializations. Each specialization has Career Skills but they are the same for each Talent Tree within a Career. The Bonus ones though is definitely what they mean.

It is definitely a wording issue BUT if they stated it the same but had the Career Skills at the start and not above each Talent Tree, I doubt we'd be having this problem.

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So after 3 gaming sessions none of your characteristics (brawn etc.) or skills have increased and you have gained no new talents in your chosen career as a Pilot.

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That's because you need to purchase the Dedication talent to increase any of your characteristics. XP can be spent to increase characteristics during character creation only . Afterwards, it's only through the dedication talent.

-EF

Right. Ignore the talent trees, and look at the specialisation entries under each career. I think it's pretty obvious that the skills listed under the actual specialisation entry; where it is described and fleshed out, are the skills associated with the specialisation, whereas the skills listed above these entries for each career are given only to characters of that career.

You only receive the specialty's bonus career skills. So if you were a Hired Gun buying into Politico, you would get Charm, Deception, Core Worlds and Coercion as class skills but not Leadership, Negotiation, Streetwise, Education, or Lore.

This is how we read it and do it. The specialization you unlock grants the career skills only not the "base" career

Yeah I'm running it as bonus skills only, it makes more sense to me.

Its a verly poorly written rule.

Specializations don't necessarily "belong" to one and only one career. In the AoR beta, for example, the Ace career has the same Pilot specialization as the Smuggler, with the same bonus career skills. So, if you were to take Pilot as a non-career specialization... which "base" career would you hypothetically get career skills from? Just one? Both? And what if a specialization was shared between three or four or more careers? What then? Or how about if a new sourcebook introduces yet another career that uses your purchased non-career specialization? Do you automatically adds its career skills to your own as soon as you buy the book?

Obviously, it can get ridiculous. Basic rule of thumb: careers have specializations, not the other way around. Since specializations have no "base" career, you only get the specialization's bonus career skills added to your character's current career skills. Any career that a specialization may, or may not, belong to is irrelevant when it comes to purchasing non-career specializations.

So I contacted Fantasy Flight.

It is just the 4 bonus skills that you add to your career skills.