So in most RPG's you either get a lot of armor or become really good at dodging or be invisible all the time, something to that effect (or have a groupmate who attracts a lot of attention).

In Only War, avoiding death seems to be "Burn Fate Points and prey your medic can find his rear-end with both hands."

To say this game is lethal isn't really doing it justice. We just fought Orks. Squigs...squigs in giant hampster balls with bombs strapped to them...

...Orks...

Needless to say they've cost us a Melta-Gun, a few fate points and a number of our allies and comrades so far. (personally i've already been healed and i'm at -6 chest, our medic stopped my bloodloss but a wet noodle could kill me at this point, i'm pretty sure Ork wat-nudlez do 1d10+12)

How do you guys avoid death? I'm looking for interesting (though not cheesy) ideas. Maybe tactical advice would be nice too.

You're going to get a lot of "use cover", " dodge and parry", pick your battles", and "fight them at range" I suspect. A good hit from a decent weapon, I would think, should detonate a stikk-bomb bowling ball with a squig in it, so like in 40K: Space Marine the video game, ping them at range, and make them blow up; up close, even your Space Marines don't take Squigs well, in that game. How are the Orks tagging you? Are you SEVERELY outnumbered, and getting assaulted? Cover can mitigate much of ranged combat, and it's an accepted fact that no Ork has ever claimed a casualty with a gun that they didn't Ogryn-bludgeon someone with it, their BS is so bad. Then it depends on what, and how much you're fighting, to try and whittle down possible assaulters. Surprise attacks are also good. Have the weapons for vs. Orks. In my head, that's flamers, autocannons, grenades, and such.

Sadly, the last bit is: you probably will die; not because of any inherent poor choices, on your part, but because that's what Guard do. The greatest advantage of the IG is there will always be another grunt. Sometimes, this game seems to like to remind you that this is IG you are playing, and they often die in droves, never mourned by those who knew them.

Desert, Go live quietly as a farmer.

Ork Boyz have a BS of around 24 IIRC, and a lot of them have twin-linked weapons, so actually a lot of them will hit if ethey fire enough. (24 + 20 for twin-linked + 10 for short range = 54 - 10 for full auto = 44%, yeah they'll hit quite a lot).

Avoid the draft. move to Canada, or maybe stay in collage?

No good. Space Canada is under Inquisition blockade. Something about free health care.

Orks and their high Toughness do bother me. I don't suppose having Accurate weapons is an effective enough counter on its own?

Try the longlas, it has felling(4) which works wonders against orks

The long las is good, but Orks only have UT(2), which means you're only dropping 2 (abeit it also helps with True Grit, which is their real killer).

IMO what really helps against Orks is Tearing weapons, since that gives the 1d5 RF Crits that bypass True Grit, and which while they won't kill them (at least immediately) they will weaken them considerably.

Well that and autcannons.

Really with Orks you want to start at a long distance from them and fill them with firepower.

Tanks?

Try the longlas, it has felling(4) which works wonders against orks

The long las is good, but Orks only have UT(2), which means you're only dropping 2 (abeit it also helps with True Grit, which is their real killer).

IMO what really helps against Orks is Tearing weapons, since that gives the 1d5 RF Crits that bypass True Grit, and which while they won't kill them (at least immediately) they will weaken them considerably.

Well that and autcannons.

Really with Orks you want to start at a long distance from them and fill them with firepower.

This is why I'm really interested in the Triplex Pattern Lasgun. At longer ranges, I'm hoping for some good hits with the Accurate/Aim sniping. When they eventually get closer, and they probably will, I'm hoping Proven (5) and Felling (4) start becoming real useful.

That and autocannons.

How long will a guardsman given the melee doctrines last in combat against an ork anyway? Is it something worth planning for, or is running (and sprinting) and using harnesses and grapnels to gain some vertical distance and keep shooting the better choice (terrain permitting)?

No, not the Triplex for the love of God!

There's a long discussion (started by me) on this in the forums somewhere. The incineration mode is inferior to a standard lasgun fired on overcharge, even against Orks.

A Guardsman will last in close combat with an Ork for about 5 seconds, unless he is an Ogryn or has gobs of XP. DO NOT MELEE ORKS! They are the premier melee fighters of the 40K universe alongside Tyranids.

Even if you're an Ogryn, it's probably not a good idea.

EDIT: FLAME. Set the bastards on fire. Their WP and Ag are low enough that it will probably take them out of the combat, even if it won't kill them for a minute or so.

Avoid the draft. move to Canada, or maybe stay in collage?

Isn't Cadia Space Canada?

Canada guards against the Eye of Terror to the south.

No, not the Triplex for the love of God!

There's a long discussion (started by me) on this in the forums somewhere. The incineration mode is inferior to a standard lasgun fired on overcharge, even against Orks.

A Guardsman will last in close combat with an Ork for about 5 seconds, unless he is an Ogryn or has gobs of XP. DO NOT MELEE ORKS! They are the premier melee fighters of the 40K universe alongside Tyranids.

Even if you're an Ogryn, it's probably not a good idea.

EDIT: FLAME. Set the bastards on fire. Their WP and Ag are low enough that it will probably take them out of the combat, even if it won't kill them for a minute or so.

Well the regiment I'm designing for my rogue trader dynasty, the armsmen at least, are a light infantry force with harnesses and grapnels as standard kit. Mobility is key so I figured since cheap knockoff longlas would come in handy. The incinerate mode might come in handy when it's down to the crits.

I do intend to play as them though, with OW scale characters instead of the fabulous death gods that are the average rogue trader group. I figured that maneuverability is the key thing and I can't give them all longlas... Well, I can but that's just not as fun sounding as rappelling from buildings and so on.

Thanks for the flamer tip, think I'll make that the favored basic.

Just be aware that with the flamer it had better work. If it does, the Orks are out of the com bat in one round (unless you decide to allow Mob Rule to apply to the Willpower Test). If it doesn't, they'll be in close range (since flamers have short range) and ready for stompin'.

If it hits an Ork in the body, the Triplex on incineration mode does an average of 6.5 + 3 = 9.5 - AP2 - TB4 = 3.5 damage. The M36 on overcharge does 5.5 + 4 = 9.5 - AP2 - TB6 = 1.5 damage. However, it can fire semi auto. The Triplex is marginally better. You;d be better off using precision mode though unless you have no chance to Aim.

HOWEVER, fired on overload, the M36 does 5.5 + 5 = 10.5 - AP0 - TB6 = 4.5, and can fire semi-auto (but possibly jam).

Against orks, wouldn't the reduction of TB for True Grit be the most important bonus for the Triplex anyway?

I mean, I get it's not as great until then, but once the orks is in crits, wouldn't Felling become more important?

Felling(2+) is always extra damage, remember that.

It takes away the UT which means more damage, with every hit. That always matters.

But since True Grit effectively doubles their damage bonus once they hit 0 wounds, the longlas is pretty much a single shot autocannon against orks by then, with improved accuracy and better talents for damage manipulation.

Yes, it's extra damage, but as bogi_khaosa shows, it's less extra damage than the regular lasgun gets through overload.

However With Pen not helping against True Grit, I'm wondering whether it doesn't outdo the regular lasgun even on overload once the ork is down to crits . Someone would have to do the maths, and I'm hoping bogi can work their magic

The overload has a 10% chace of jamming though, which is a factor.

Once it's in crits, it works out like this. It matters a lot if the location hit is the body or not. IIRC it's a 50% chance the body will be hit (?).

BODY:

Minimum damage:

M36: 1 + 5 = 6 - TB6 - AP0 = 0.

Triplex: 5 + 3 = 8 - TB4 - AP2 = 2. True Grit reduces this by 4 to 1.

Maximum damage:

M36: 10 + 5 = 15 - TB6 - AP0 = 9. True Grit reduces this by 6 to 3.

Triplex: 10 + 3 = 13 - TB4 - AP2 = 7. True Grit reduces this by 4 to 3.

Average damage:

M36: 5.5 + 5 = 10.5 - TB6 - AP0 = 4.5, True Grit reduces this by 6 to 1.

Triplex: 6.5 + 3 = 9.5 - TB4 - AP2 = 3.5. True Grit reduces this by 4 to 1.

ANY OTHER LOCATION:

Minimum damage:

M36: 1 + 5 = 6 - TB6 - AP0 = 0.

Triplex: 5 + 3 = 8 - TB4 - AP0 = 4. True Grit reduces this by 4 to 1.

Maximum damage:

M36: 10 + 5 = 15 - TB6 - AP0 = 9. True Grit reduces this by 6 to 3.

Triplex: 10 + 3 = 13 - TB4 - AP0 = 9. True Grit reduces this by 4 to 5.

Average damage:

M36: 5.5 + 5 = 10.5 - TB6 - AP0 = 4.5, True Grit reduces this by 6 to 1.

Triplex: 6.5 + 3 = 9.5 - TB4 - AP0 = 5.5. True Grit reduces this by 4 to 1.5.

(I'm groggy from just having woken up, but I think this is right.)

The M36 can fire semiauto, so assuming a BS of 40ish its values should actually be multiplied by about 1.5ish (though this will be modified if the ork, say, Runs). Discounting that, the Triplex does higher minimum damage (of 1!) in both cases due mainly to Proven, it does higher maximum damage only if the body location is not hit, and it does the same average damage in both cases. So once the Ork is in Crits the Triplex, on a shot-for-shot basis, is slightly better. However, the M36 can fire multiple shots, so it wins in most circumstances (even if the Ork is Running, I think; statistically I think this will work out even including the -20 penalty but I haven't looked at it, esp. since it depends on the firer's BS and not the weapon's stats).

(I almost started to work out the math for the precision mode, but it's too much off a hassle.)

Desert, Go live quietly as a farmer.

Ork Boyz have a BS of around 24 IIRC, and a lot of them have twin-linked weapons, so actually a lot of them will hit if ethey fire enough. (24 + 20 for twin-linked + 10 for short range = 54 - 10 for full auto = 44%, yeah they'll hit quite a lot).

Well that kills the immersion for me. Someone at the publisher must have never read a book about Orks, and their BS 2 TT Anything better than 20%, and that's me rounding up to be nice, isn't how I remember Orks shootin'. Oh well, it was a nice dream.

Yeah, they can be a royal pain, a durable, dumb as a post pain to deal with. Silly side note, but regardless of what the book says (Enemies of the Imperium), should Meganob Armor up their size category once? I notice that it doesn't, but Terminators do, so why shouldn't Orks?

In a game where you didn't have players who took time to make characters that they have ANY attachment to, I'd say set up autocannons or heavy bolters. As the Orks close, barrage the not out of them, and have a group with flamers and lasguns come in off the side, to try and wipe up what's left. If they can't then they slow down the Orks, and the heavy weapons SHOULD be able to finish them off. If THAT fails, then IG always expect some casualties. It's why I paradoxically hate and accept why IG don't have dedicated assaulters, in the game or TT; while it would be nice, they can't stand through it, so it would be a useless unit.

BS2 in TT is a 33% chance... Effectively more, since multiple shots increase chance to hit in TT, which is the opposite of what they do in OW. (A Shoota Boy can expect to hit 14% of the time in OW, with two shots hitting 4% of the time.)

EDIT: Nobs are already Hulking, and Enormous is half the size of a tank. Mega-Armour is supposed to increase size, but I don't think by that much.

BS2 in TT is a 33% chance...

Accepted. I can't do math when I'm just staying awake from work. Apologies. My only counter is I draw happiness from the fact that even their Special Characters, for the most part, are BS 2.

Yes, it's extra damage, but as bogi_khaosa shows, it's less extra damage than the regular lasgun gets through overload.

Er... the Longlas benefits from the variable setting rule as well. Overload goes on top of Felling.

Desert, Go live quietly as a farmer.

Ork Boyz have a BS of around 24 IIRC, and a lot of them have twin-linked weapons, so actually a lot of them will hit if ethey fire enough. (24 + 20 for twin-linked + 10 for short range = 54 - 10 for full auto = 44%, yeah they'll hit quite a lot).

Well that kills the immersion for me. Someone at the publisher must have never read a book about Orks, and their BS 2 TT Anything better than 20%, and that's me rounding up to be nice, isn't how I remember Orks shootin'. Oh well, it was a nice dream.

In the TT, twinlinked at BS 2 has a better than 50% chance to hit (1-(2/3*2/3) = 5/9).

And no, boys rarely have twinlinked, but plenty of orks actually do.

Yes, it's extra damage, but as bogi_khaosa shows, it's less extra damage than the regular lasgun gets through overload.

Er... the Longlas benefits from the variable setting rule as well. Overload goes on top of Felling.

I think he was talking about the Triplex incineration mode (I thought he was anyway, which is what my math was for).

The Triplex really is a weapon that people tend to think is better than it actually is. Its advantage is versatility (Accurate or semi-auto -- the incineration mode is so third-rate it barely merits mentioning), but it is lackluster in both roles, either a poor man's M36 or a poor man's long las.

Well, apart from giving the M36 the "Incredibly Lethal" Accurate variant pattern effect, I think the mediocrity of the Triplex will suffice my needs. The Incineration mode isn't really the main attraction anyway, it's always been the rather overpowered Accurate quality.

EDIT:

Speaking of variant patterns, how does Crippling interact with Unnatural Toughness? The damage Crippling inflicts isn't reduced by Armour or Toughness, does this affect UT as well?