Hello,

I may just be blatantly missing this, but what are the rules for shooting while hidden? Say I make a stealth check and shoot from concealment with a sniper rifle. Do the enemies automatically see me, or do they need to make awareness checks?

Thanks!

I think they'll see you automatically, because Hammer of the Emperor has a Talent (called Stealth Sniper) that forces your enemies to make an opposed perception vs stealth roll to see where you fired from.

It's saved my (character's) bacon at least once.

get a silencer

Or a needle rifle, no muzzle flash, no las bolt, no crack of a rifle round, just nothing more than your target maybe lightly touching where they were hit, as if to brush away the annoying feeling before the potent toxin seeps into your bloodstream. At least, that is what would happen if it didn't just bounce off your armor.

Ask yourself; Do you really want an invisible and silent sniper?

Any rule or equipment available to your players, should at some level be available to every single NPC in the game.

So remember who to thank when next time your PCs get sniped in the head with no chance of finding the assailant.

Also, at the tech level which OW seems to simulate - Some sort of weird WWI or WWII with gadgets - Most weapons will be impossible to hide or silence.

The only real ways for a sniper to remain undetected, is to fire where there is plenty of ambient noise and visual obscurement, such as on a massive battlefield. Even in the bustle of a great city a silenced rifle will be fairly easily detected (I would judge a roll at -10) and the general area the shot came from would be automatically known, so artillery or airstrikes can be called in.

you cant hear nor see a suppressed 7.62mm nato or .338 lapua sniper rifle from 300m or farther away (maybe even closer havnt tried)

since those are 2 of the most used sniper caliberes for military use i guess it would be similar for a sniper rifle in OW

Even if they don't see you (which they will if they're looking in your direction due to either muzzle flash or the big bright laser beam) othey will at the very least know approximately where you are because they saw where the shot hit.

Needle weapons are the exception because they leave no recognizable wound (?), so you see someone fall down, as opposed to get a bullet hole in him and fall down.

That said, snipers are horribly boring to play, so I don't get all these endless posts on snipers in the forums. Snipers are dull as hell.

Even if they don't see you (which they will if they're looking in your direction due to either muzzle flash or the big bright laser beam) othey will at the very least know approximately where you are because they saw where the shot hit.

Why would you see a beam? Do you see the beam from your laser pointer?

Essentially, if you can see a laserbeam, there's either so high a density of particles in the air that you really shouldn't be using a laser, or it's an extremely poorly designed laser. Seeing a laser beam - especially seeing it move - is a very silly Hollywood convention. While muzzle flash from a laser is just ridiculous and purely mr Abnett's invention.

Obviously, seeng a laser beam before it hit's is... silly and absurd, btw.

That said, snipers are horribly boring to play, so I don't get all these endless posts on snipers in the forums. Snipers are dull as hell.

Blame Hollywood and possibly in some cases, US "patriotic" propaganda.

Also, it's easier to type and remember than "designated sharp shooter" which if I understand correctly is much closer to what most of use mean when we write sniper. It's certainly what I should refer to my own character as.

These are 40K lasers, not real lasers. They make pew-pew Star Wars beams.

These are 40K lasers, not real lasers. They make pew-pew Star Wars beams.

So my GM informed me at our last session. Well, pew-pew Dawn of War beams I think he said.

The rest of it... still Abnett-isms though. And while he's a decent writer, he's not that good.

I don't like Abnett much. Anyway, that's pretty uch how the game world/rules are set up.

seeing a muzzle flash is a misconception of hollywood as well
real ammuntion produces almost no muzzle flash, only hollywood blanks do for effect

if a suppressor or silencer is attached there is no muzzleflash left at all

as to guessing where the shooter is from an impact, its not that easy, doable but not easy

How dare you question Hollywood!

More seriously, OW's "sniper" weapons are arranged in a hierarchy that trades killing power for subtelty (roughly)

long las

sniper rifle

needle rifle

The long las is obvious but does most damage; the needle rifle does least damage but is effectively invisible.

Eliminating visibility from the long las would make the sniper rifle totally superfluous and the needle rifle almost so (it still has the advantage of not leaving a clearly visible wound)..

I think they'll see you automatically, because Hammer of the Emperor has a Talent (called Stealth Sniper) that forces your enemies to make an opposed perception vs stealth roll to see where you fired from.

It's saved my (character's) bacon at least once.

That's why I hate the Hammer of the Emperor. It codifies a lot of stuff into Talents, that really should already be within the nature of pre-existing Skills.

I have a personal hatred for the one that "allows" you to increase your Logistics by haggling with the quartermaster - something that should really just be a skill test or roleplayed already.

The Stealth Sniper is another example of this. It's something that should already be covered by the Stealth skill, or roleplayed. The Stealth Sniper Talent does nothing but allow you to do things that you should already be able to do, especially since if you want to be pulling these things off, you will already be trying to get a Silencer or Whisper-Bolt Discharger.

With a scant few exceptions, Hammer of the Emperor, on the Talent side of things, is rubbish. It almost feels like filler, added there because they could come up with nothing more to add.

The core rules already allowed you to haggle to improve your chances of getting gear. The rules say that you can use the Commerce skill to improve your logistics rating which certainly sounds like haggling.

Hammer of the Emperor has a talent that lets you use CHARM to get another bonus to logistics.

I really liked the talents in HotE; very creative.

The core rules already allowed you to haggle to improve your chances of getting gear. The rules say that you can use the Commerce skill to improve your logistics rating which certainly sounds like haggling.

Hammer of the Emperor has a talent that lets you use CHARM to get another bonus to logistics.

Yes, because if you charmed the quartermaster, that's clearly not something that could or should result in a bonus to logistics, and not already completely doable with the pre-existing rules.

It's not actually, because relations with the quartermaster play no role in the acquisitions system.

It's not actually, because relations with the quartermaster play no role in the acquisitions system.

If you limit the use of skills to what is expressly mechanically supported in the books, you're going to have a very boring game indeed.

Yeah, but you could say that about Commerce as well.

Yeah, but you could say that about Commerce as well.

Of course you can. I'm not seeing your point.

<snip...too tired to make a relevant, sensible post>