Okay so far I've gleaned from the boards that the communis opinio is that you cannot use pistols on semi-auto or full auto fire in melee combat. But I still wonder about the following actions:

1. All Out Attack -> the rules on p190 of the Core Book specifically state that you make 'a furious melee attack' ... so I am thinking melee weapons, and that a pistol used in melee combat cannot be used for an All Out Attack. Is that right?

2. Guarded Attack -> gives you a -10 penalty on your Weapon Skill test (in order to defend better). Does this reference to WS imply that you cannot make a Guarded Attack with a pistol since you would use BS for that?

3. Defensive Stance -> all attacks against you suffer -20 to WS. Again, what if you are facing a melee combatant with a pistol who would try to hit you not with WS but with BS?

4. Maneuvre -> calls for opposed WS tests. Again, what if one or more of the melee combatants use pistols and hence, BS?

5. Charge -> can you make a charge with a pistol in combat?

6. And finally .. if all these drawbacks are into play, do you think it's still viable to use a pistol in melee combat? No burst fire, lotsa actions seem disallowed, and there are also house rules which allow you to parry an with a pistol in melee combat (slapping the hand away etc).

Thnx!

1. I would not allow this with a pistol as it makes little sense, but then I allow semi/full in close combat.

2. I see no reason why this cannot be applied to a pistol user, giving a -10 to BS. [My interrpretation]The idea is you are concentrating on not getting hit and so seeing the best opportunity to attack is trickier[/My interrpretation]

3. Again thinking about it this can quite easily be applied to BS instead of WS. The basic principle behind the action remains the same (at least in my mind)

4.I would still call for an opposed WS test. [My interrpretation] You are using your combat know -how etc to out move you opponent, while they are trying to prevent it. Seeing as though neither of you are shooting (or even attacking for that matter) BS would make less sense to me[/My interrpretation] Of course, given that a pistolier's combat know-how etc comes from training and fighting with pistols I suppose he could use BS against an opponents WS.

5. As a charge stands it makes little sense when applied to using a pistol. However, I would allow a pc using a pistol to perform this action (but I would be tempted to call it something else) to try and portray the character advancing upon the enemy and getting him/herself into the best postion to shoot first from

6. Yes

Per the errata the following is true:

An attack with a melee weapon is a Half Action. An
attack with a ranged weapon is a Half Action for a
single shot, and a Full Action for a semi-auto or fullauto
burst.

In melee combat, the only ranged weapons you
can use are pistols. Pistols used in melee still use
Ballistic Skill, still count as ranged weapons , and
cannot benefit from any talents that are specifically
associated with melee weapons or melee attacks.

Therefore you can fire semi auto or burst in melee combat as a full round action and any talents that are associated with melee attacks (furious assault) do not work with pistols.

Smokes said:

Agreed, but I am not wondering so much about the Talents allowed, but the Actions allowed!

You can use a pistol when in melee, but it still counts as a ranged weapon and uses BS.

You cannot benefit from any Talents that are specfic to melee weapons or WS when using a pistol.

When wielding a pistol you cannot use any Action that specifically mentions the use of WS (examples: All Out Attack, Charge, Feint).

Right, as Savage and Smokes said. No Talent or Action that refers to weapon skill or melee weapons can be used. Maneuver, for example, refers to an opposed Weapon Skill test. A pistol uses Ballistic Skill, therefore cannot be used to perform a maneuver action.

a pistolbutt (sp?) counts as an improvised weapon, so does (to my knowledge) a Basic Weapon(butt) in Melee. Or an unarmed attack as well (kick)

So you could basicaly maneuver someone 1 meter away and blast him point blank with a shotgun (fun is to be had)

In our games we apply the 'firing into melee' penalty [ a close and fast moving target is more difficult to hit - like a low flying plane ]. Having said this we also apply all the other benefits and penalties - point blank, auto, and full auto etc.,but misses are checked by scatter patern and any other possible hits rolled for. In melee you've no idea where your shots may end up!

I remember a long, long time ago that pistols being single-shot only in melee was mentioned, either in errata or (more likely) by one of the developers on this board/the old BI one. If someone can remember exactly where this was mentioned it'd be greatly appreciated. As for those questions, as I see it...

1) Nope

2) Nope, mentions WS.

3) Yes. No attack on your part, impairs enemy's ability to hit you. I would apply the penalty to their BS if they were wielding a pistol.

4) Nope.

5) Nope.

6) Absolutely. An assassin with BS 42 and a hand cannon would be far better off using that than his primitive, regular sword and his WS of 26.