I feel bad that your only experience with this game has been like this... That's not playing X-Wing... Not at all. I hope you are able to find people who are actually willing to play the game with you. Because when played, you know, CORRECTLY it is a ton of fun even when you lose.

I'm actually angry you had to play like this. I hate cheaters and this guy is just blatant about it. It's total crap.

It's so aggravating to even read about I have to convince myself you're just trolling us because I don't want to think it's real. It's like playing Monopoly where you both get the same number of properties but he gets the last two sides and you get the first two.

Here is the Complete X-Wing tutorial from YouTube:

When I play with my mate, we always switch sides after a game. Allows us to understand how the other side plays and better predict what they shall do in game.

Thanks for the rules answers. As for the double medal upgrade question I had, I asked it because one of the cards in Imperial aces allows a double upgrade and I just want to be clear on how it works.

I am in a pickle because one of the cards that explanes upgrade rule that came with the hawk says you cant take two of the same mod. The two medal upgrades I am talking about are opportunist and expose. One comes with Imp Aces the both grant a plus 1 damage die but the cause or require diffrent things. I have a feeling they cant be staked...

First, as noted, Royal Guard TIE only allows an extra modification, not an extra upgrade of any kind. Modifications are a one-per-ship card that doesn't require any upgrade icon (like Stealth Device).

Secondly, if (theoretically) a pilot were to have two medal icons on their bar, then you could use Expose and Opportunist at the same time. They do stack because they're triggered by different things. Expose requires you to use your action, and swaps an agility die to an attack die. Opportunist is triggered when you attack, if you choose to attack a vulnerable opponent. Note that it doesn't say "ACTION" on the card. You get a stress token for doing it instead.

That, or let me take an equal number of Shuttles against him.

SableGyrphon, put the Marble Astral Gnu down....

But yes, the craft have points values. TIE fighters are supposed to face X-Wings approximately 2-on-1, that's why the starter set includes them that way. If you play by number of craft rather than points values, you should expect a more expensive ship with more shiny toys to come out on top. If you really want to prove a point a formation of 7 shuttles or firesprays should make that point nicely.

Im guessing you accept printed-out cards (otherwise he's got 7 HWK-260s sitting somewhere as well for those turrets....), but regardless, if you want to play vaguely equal points and want to stick with interceptors the Royal Guard are the way to go.

The turret is nasty on a Y-wing. However, since he's using Blaster Turrets, not Ion Turrets, there are ways to deal with this.

You will note that the text on the Blaster Turret says "ATTACK (Focus)" - i.e. every time he wants to fire the turret, he has to spend a focus token to do this before he's allowed to shoot. Note that he doesn't then get to use his focus to change die results - he needs to spend the token to make the attack at all.

I draw your attention to the special ability of Carnor Jax. No Y-wing within range 1 of him may use its turret, whether it's trying to shoot at him or not. Add in the Royal Guard TIE upgrade, Stealth Device, Shield Upgrade and Push The Limit (or Elusiveness) and he's a bugger to take down, even at close range (especially since Y-wings have poor primary weapons). Meanwhile, he gets to hoon around their formation like a squirrel on E-numbers, ruining the Y-wings ability to fire their turrets and/or get the best result from their Advanced Proton Torpedoes.

Meanwhile, his six mates (also in similarly upgraded interceptors) scream across the board, get behind the Y-wings, and proceed to chop them into dogmeat. Go up one flank with a 5 straight, then boost to turn inwards, then take a stress token with Push The Limit to follow this with a barrel roll further up the board and you'll be at least level with them, if not behind them, on turn 1...

I would simply add the rule that you have to match upgrades as well. Then don't take any. Naked interceptors should normally crush an equal number of naked y-wings. Y-wing's strength is really in the way their sturdiness complements their turrets and torps.

Honestly though you're going to want to get out as soon as possible. This guy sounds like the worst kind of opponent.

Actually, just play him 7v7 again. Put flight instructor, sensor jammer, push the limit, a shield upgrade, and a stealth device on every one of your interceptors.

As long as you are picking and choosing rules, pick and choose a few for yourself. At least with those upgrades, your interceptors should be roughly the same points value.

i think next time you play no more special rules. Any upgrade on any ship I can only imagine the unbalance. Especially if your armies have to be the same ship count but upgrades all cost 0 points.

I understand but the issue I have is that most the time they are the only player I can play agianst most the time.

Normally I'd give someone the benefit of assuming incompetence instead of malice... But in this case it sounds like he's setting up the rules so he has a massive, almost unbeatable advantage, and is doing it only for the sake of making himself feel good by winning. Which if he was honest, wouldn't mean anything because it's such a lopsided game.

4 naked X-Wings vs 4 Tie Fighters is not a fair fight for the Ties. Add stuff to the X's and it becomes even worse.

If I were you, I'd tell the guy either he starts playing by the rules or he finds someone else to play with. Or you, there's always Vassal and http://teamcovenant.com/ to find games against people who don't cheat.

This isn't what's going on here, but it is completely possible, and can actually be fun, to play with unbalanced forces if you play a scenario or replay of a specific battle, so saying it's not X-wing unless there are equal points isn't quite true. Of course, those types of games often dramatically alter winning conditions, etc..

Worth noting, even though it's not what's going on here, which frankly is a complete mess.

That 3x3 table gets crowded when two "legal" swarms meet. The mess that seven or more Y-Wings would make should be even worse. I also quiver to think how 14 Interceptors from one side of the table would fare. I believe a lot of people will start increasing the play area as squad size increases although that is looking at points and not just raw ship count.

If I could have fought on a much bigger table I feel I could have done better. The way rhe Y-Wings flew was very slow most the time forward one and with even space between so the could cover eachother from every direction.

Make a deal with him that you alternate seting up the game, When it is your turn, you choose to play by the rules, or even pick the forces. I worse comes to worst, decide who plays Rebels by tossing a coin. Another way would be for one player to chose the ships (Rebel and Imperial) and for the other player to choose which force he plays. Missions are another way to play with forces that are not even (points wise) but require decent mission objectives and victory conditions (which, I'm afraid you will not likely get with such an opponent). All of these are fair (and usually used to teach 3-year olds how to share). If he won't go for any of these, then he is no friend, he is taking advantage of you and probably has a personality disorder. You would be better off playing solo until you can find a real friend and a sporting opponent.

Do invite him to read this forum, perhaps he can be taught.

Chris

He made it clear to me if I dont pay by his rules I don't play at all. Unfortunatly the way things are I can not just go out and find people to play... Most of my friends I have not seen in person for years. Even if they could I would have a hard time getting them to play this game agianst me, I got a mean rep in Battle Fleet Gothic only one defeat and that was because of a bs surprise event involving a black hole.

I'm actually angry you had to play like this. I hate cheaters and this guy is just blatant about it. It's total crap.

It's so aggravating to even read about I have to convince myself you're just trolling us because I don't want to think it's real. It's like playing Monopoly where you both get the same number of properties but he gets the last two sides and you get the first two.

The only thing close to trolish I have to say is I wish the Interceptors could one shot kill these ships. One problem would be solved maybe...

Thanks for the rules answers. As for the double medal upgrade question I had, I asked it because one of the cards in Imperial aces allows a double upgrade and I just want to be clear on how it works.

I am in a pickle because one of the cards that explanes upgrade rule that came with the hawk says you cant take two of the same mod. The two medal upgrades I am talking about are opportunist and expose. One comes with Imp Aces the both grant a plus 1 damage die but the cause or require diffrent things. I have a feeling they cant be staked...

First, as noted, Royal Guard TIE only allows an extra modification, not an extra upgrade of any kind. Modifications are a one-per-ship card that doesn't require any upgrade icon (like Stealth Device).

Secondly, if (theoretically) a pilot were to have two medal icons on their bar, then you could use Expose and Opportunist at the same time. They do stack because they're triggered by different things. Expose requires you to use your action, and swaps an agility die to an attack die. Opportunist is triggered when you attack, if you choose to attack a vulnerable opponent. Note that it doesn't say "ACTION" on the card. You get a stress token for doing it instead.

That, or let me take an equal number of Shuttles against him.

SableGyrphon, put the Marble Astral Gnu down....

But yes, the craft have points values. TIE fighters are supposed to face X-Wings approximately 2-on-1, that's why the starter set includes them that way. If you play by number of craft rather than points values, you should expect a more expensive ship with more shiny toys to come out on top. If you really want to prove a point a formation of 7 shuttles or firesprays should make that point nicely.

Im guessing you accept printed-out cards (otherwise he's got 7 HWK-260s sitting somewhere as well for those turrets....), but regardless, if you want to play vaguely equal points and want to stick with interceptors the Royal Guard are the way to go.

The turret is nasty on a Y-wing. However, since he's using Blaster Turrets, not Ion Turrets, there are ways to deal with this.

You will note that the text on the Blaster Turret says "ATTACK (Focus)" - i.e. every time he wants to fire the turret, he has to spend a focus token to do this before he's allowed to shoot. Note that he doesn't then get to use his focus to change die results - he needs to spend the token to make the attack at all.

I draw your attention to the special ability of Carnor Jax. No Y-wing within range 1 of him may use its turret, whether it's trying to shoot at him or not. Add in the Royal Guard TIE upgrade, Stealth Device, Shield Upgrade and Push The Limit (or Elusiveness) and he's a bugger to take down, even at close range (especially since Y-wings have poor primary weapons). Meanwhile, he gets to hoon around their formation like a squirrel on E-numbers, ruining the Y-wings ability to fire their turrets and/or get the best result from their Advanced Proton Torpedoes.

Meanwhile, his six mates (also in similarly upgraded interceptors) scream across the board, get behind the Y-wings, and proceed to chop them into dogmeat. Go up one flank with a 5 straight, then boost to turn inwards, then take a stress token with Push The Limit to follow this with a barrel roll further up the board and you'll be at least level with them, if not behind them, on turn 1...

Thank you I had forgotten most of the rules for the things in the Aces set.

Actually, just play him 7v7 again. Put flight instructor, sensor jammer, push the limit, a shield upgrade, and a stealth device on every one of your interceptors.

As long as you are picking and choosing rules, pick and choose a few for yourself. At least with those upgrades, your interceptors should be roughly the same points value.

We both can only use the upgrades that can legally go on each craft. I am sure some day their will be a torp or missle upgrade for other craft to carry but for now I just got my 3 offensive dice unless I want to use a mixed force.

Been reading this for a few days now, and all I can say is, I'm sorry for your situation.. but honestly, anyone that told me, my way or the highway... and they are cheating.. the highway is an open road, and I have no problem walking away.. sounds like you might be his only outlet as well.. remind him if you go he suffers as well.. I hate cheaters and I won't play against them..

I have one suggestion.. next time he calls for a game, tell him as long as you pkay by the rules.. yes, but if you wanna cheat.. no.. it's not fun tor you, and you are more than happy to stop playing.. let him brood over that..

Bottom line... it's up to you, and if you don't mind his asinine attitude, that's totally up to you, but then that does take some wind out of your sails when you have a complaint..

I understand but the issue I have is that most the time they are the only player I can play agianst most the time.

Normally I'd give someone the benefit of assuming incompetence instead of malice... But in this case it sounds like he's setting up the rules so he has a massive, almost unbeatable advantage, and is doing it only for the sake of making himself feel good by winning. Which if he was honest, wouldn't mean anything because it's such a lopsided game.

4 naked X-Wings vs 4 Tie Fighters is not a fair fight for the Ties. Add stuff to the X's and it becomes even worse.

If I were you, I'd tell the guy either he starts playing by the rules or he finds someone else to play with. Or you, there's always Vassal and http://teamcovenant.com/ to find games against people who don't cheat.

Thank you for the link. Half good news today, I beat him one on one with Darth Vader TIE advanced. I say half because I shouldnt have to use ships I dont want to to win. I had PTL, stealth device, swarm missiles.

As crazy as this sounds I'd say let him go. Maybe he's the only one who plays in which case NO ONE plays. If there are others then approach them. For what it's worth it wouldn't surprise me if someone like that has already BURNED a few other would be X-Wing players (and who knows what else) so badly they don't want to play something because of him.

What I'm seeing is some kind of egomaniac who doesn't care how he wins and sets everything up to maximize his chances without "cheating" according to his narrowly defined rules. Of course his rules set things up so he gets all the advantages of using more powerful ships on a playing field that is far more suited for them than the opposition. If given enough "room to move" the Interceptors should be able to dart in and out of range 3 making attacks that whittle the Y-Wing down while the Y-Wing had a hard time responding. Unfortunately with equal numbers, superior upgrades, and a "small" playing field that advantage becomes very hard to capitalize on.

To me the "ideal" situation for an Interceptor vs. a Y-Wing is to move into Range 3 (preferably out of the Y's firing arc), take your one shot with 3 dice against his "enhanced" 2 defense, and then boogie out to set up again while maybe giving him a 2 dice attack against your 4 defense. His "wall" of Ys makes that much harder to do and a small board leaves you no where to run to set up for the next attack run.

Thank you for the link. Half good news today, I beat him one on one with Darth Vader TIE advanced. I say half because I shouldnt have to use ships I dont want to to win. I had PTL, stealth device, swarm missiles.

Unfortunately, you may need to use the ships "you don't want to use" to win a game when the deck is otherwise stacked against you.

Remember that "maxed out" TIE Interceptor I mentioned coming in at 33 points. Well here you're using a similarly equipped ship (both used PtL and Stealth Device) except it is on a sturdier base and on a pilot with what could be an even better ability. The cost of 39 points reflect that improvement and now that maxed out Y-Wing is now just 9 points "better" instead of 15 points better so the performance gap has closed.

Make a deal with him that you alternate seting up the game, When it is your turn, you choose to play by the rules, or even pick the forces. I worse comes to worst, decide who plays Rebels by tossing a coin. Another way would be for one player to chose the ships (Rebel and Imperial) and for the other player to choose which force he plays. Missions are another way to play with forces that are not even (points wise) but require decent mission objectives and victory conditions (which, I'm afraid you will not likely get with such an opponent). All of these are fair (and usually used to teach 3-year olds how to share). If he won't go for any of these, then he is no friend, he is taking advantage of you and probably has a personality disorder. You would be better off playing solo until you can find a real friend and a sporting opponent.

Do invite him to read this forum, perhaps he can be taught.

Chris

He made it clear to me if I dont pay by his rules I don't play at all. Unfortunatly the way things are I can not just go out and find people to play... Most of my friends I have not seen in person for years. Even if they could I would have a hard time getting them to play this game agianst me, I got a mean rep in Battle Fleet Gothic only one defeat and that was because of a bs surprise event involving a black hole.

REP from BFG translating over shouldn't be that big of a negative factor.

IF they feel your "Win-streak" is to high rather than you building your ships they supply your ship list and you pick upgrades. or you supply a ship list and they pick upgrades.

If trying to get others to play require making concessions then allowing them to do half you list building should be concession enough.

what you've got happening with the guy you're playing with now is simply the "I win game" that children play... you should find a local gaming store where other X-Wing players play

That is an interesting rule I will have to mention it, I don't know if it will do any good now but down the road I could see it being useful.

As crazy as this sounds I'd say let him go. Maybe he's the only one who plays in which case NO ONE plays. If there are others then approach them. For what it's worth it wouldn't surprise me if someone like that has already BURNED a few other would be X-Wing players (and who knows what else) so badly they don't want to play something because of him.

What I'm seeing is some kind of egomaniac who doesn't care how he wins and sets everything up to maximize his chances without "cheating" according to his narrowly defined rules. Of course his rules set things up so he gets all the advantages of using more powerful ships on a playing field that is far more suited for them than the opposition. If given enough "room to move" the Interceptors should be able to dart in and out of range 3 making attacks that whittle the Y-Wing down while the Y-Wing had a hard time responding. Unfortunately with equal numbers, superior upgrades, and a "small" playing field that advantage becomes very hard to capitalize on.

To me the "ideal" situation for an Interceptor vs. a Y-Wing is to move into Range 3 (preferably out of the Y's firing arc), take your one shot with 3 dice against his "enhanced" 2 defense, and then boogie out to set up again while maybe giving him a 2 dice attack against your 4 defense. His "wall" of Ys makes that much harder to do and a small board leaves you no where to run to set up for the next attack run.

Yes I agree with your statement. I am responding to the 2nd paragraph. I like what you are saying, I tried and was usually able to get behind him its just that once that happend he would hit the breaks and go speed 1 forward or sometimes turn. I am really hoping for a upgrade that alows the pilot to go one speed slower than what is on the listed dial. My problem was I could not slow down enough to stay behind him. This did resault in me runing him of the table in one match though with the Baron, most the time though I would lose the target or worse and get shot up by the blaster turret. If their any manuvers to keep a target in from of the TIE Interceptor without it going further than slow ships like Y-Wing I would like to know that. I could practice those on my table.

Thank you for the link. Half good news today, I beat him one on one with Darth Vader TIE advanced. I say half because I shouldnt have to use ships I dont want to to win. I had PTL, stealth device, swarm missiles.

Unfortunately, you may need to use the ships "you don't want to use" to win a game when the deck is otherwise stacked against you.

Remember that "maxed out" TIE Interceptor I mentioned coming in at 33 points. Well here you're using a similarly equipped ship (both used PtL and Stealth Device) except it is on a sturdier base and on a pilot with what could be an even better ability. The cost of 39 points reflect that improvement and now that maxed out Y-Wing is now just 9 points "better" instead of 15 points better so the performance gap has closed.

Yeah personal bias does have to be let go in order to throughly fight and win a battle sometimes those bias are hard to let go though... I just love the Interceptor and in all that battles with real people on the Xbox I always used it and would murder everyone it didn't matter most the time howmany I fought against I almost turned the battle in the Imperials favor. Made it to 7th out of 200,000 players, the higher levels where even worried of me I got the title Red Baron from the Couch himself. I just wish my skills learned and gifted, all thanks to God and the USN, could transfer to this game when I use the Interceptor but it feels it is not going to happen.

I read OP's post and it made my head hurt.

Check the organized play forums. See if there are any posts (or make one yourself) about people getting together and playing in your area. I hope this guy you play against gets on here and reads this topic, and maybe realize how much of an ass he is being. Probably shouldn't draw a conclusion like that without knowing his side or situation, but it's hard not to lol. Best of luck to you, I feel for you man.

Instead of coming from directly behind come in from the side, take your shot and then loop back out bank arround and come in again from another oblique angel. Mostly though get a better play partner. That guy is being very abusive and I would have mocked him and told him to stuff it long ago.

Sorry to say this but you really can't judge what you should use in this game based on a video game. In the old X-Wing series of games I loved the A-Wing for its speed, maneuverability, tight shooting pattern (made off-hand shooting lots easier), and massive missile load for a fighter of its size. In this game it is far harder to utilize the speed and maneuverability and that "massive missile load" is completely gone. You may need to remember that you aren't the one actually "flying" the ship each round as some of us would need to be using loaded dice to reflect our video game abilities with a certain ship.

Stelar 7 just mentioned it but you really don't need to be directly behind a Y-Wing to play "keep away" well. You dive it at an angle (deflection shots are FAR too easy in this game; they are where ships should get +1 agility dice) and then scoot away at some alternative angle before heading back in. If it wasn't for that darn turret I'm sure those Y-Wing MUST be equipped with an Interceptor may be able to stay out of the firing arc with a combination of rolls or boosts.