Shadowrun was amazing - we played it to death back in the early 90's. I prefer 1st edition, and didn't like 3rd. There's a new edition out now that I'm trying to get my head around.

You should give it a try, Haley - some of my best role-playing moments came in Shadowrun. The mix of magic and technology and the strong ecological theme was very innovative for its time.

I would not be surprised if the books are in my GM's library... and as soon as he comes home, I will definitely ask him.

So long as it doesn't use battle maps like a certain other fantasy game...

If using cybernetics to improve a character's brawn instead of growth and expierence,then what is the difference? Both ways require some form of effort and cost.

As a girl, I remember there was a character called Vance in one of the early Marvel comics - he was a heavily-cybered bounty hunter and everyone (including himself) seemed to find him monstrous.

Even the monstrous see the error of their ways.....then Darth Vader chops off their hand and they fall into an acid lake......

In the long run, I was looking to build smuggler/pilot/scoundrel. I usually try to build well rounded characters. My first thought was 40 exp for characteristics, 30 exp for skills and 30 exp for talents. As I said before about cybernetics if you can improve your characteristics through electronics now what's the philosophical difference in sweat and effort (exp). All this feedback is a big help.

Peace Gentlebeings

In the long run, I was looking to build smuggler/pilot/scoundrel. I usually try to build well rounded characters. My first thought was 40 exp for characteristics, 30 exp for skills and 30 exp for talents.

Personally, I would recommend spending 90 or 100 experience on characteristics at character creation. Unless your GM is stingy, you should have no double raising skills during the game.

As I said before about cybernetics if you can improve your characteristics through electronics now what's the philosophical difference in sweat and effort (exp). All this feedback is a big help.

In that case, let me add one more point in favor of the existing rules: If you can raise characteristics past character creation and you're interested in optimization, you'll spend most of the game hoarding experience for attribute upgrades. So instead of spending 15 experience your first session to buy two or three talents, dabble in three career skills, raise a skill from rank 0 to rank 2, or raise an important skill from rank 2 to rank 3, you'll say, "Darn. I need two more sessions before I have enough experience to raise Agility from 3 to 4. Then the process will restart and I'll need another three sessions before I can raise the next characteristic." For me, this is much, much less exciting than spending experience every session or every two sessions.

Peace Gentlebeings

I would say "peace" back, but you're talking about a smuggler, so I'm sure trouble will find you eventually. I'll just hope you have fast legs, a smooth tongue, or a scary-looking ally. I hear wookies are popular for the latter role.

Your best option is to spend as much on Characteristics as possible during chargen, since you can spend XP on Skills/Talents at any time.

I personally have a huge social aversion for characters with cybernetics. Replacing a damaged limb seems acceptable, but losing a healthy one just for an upgrade would be frowned upon, I think. The only doctors willing to do that kind of surgery would be the kind of back-street chop-shop type you wouldn't want putting you under the anesthetic anyway. Or someone crazy like Cratala in 'Beyond the Rim'. And then you'd wake up to find she'd replaced your head with that of a cyber-nexu or something

This isn't Shadowrun. Droids upgrading their bodies seems fine, but I think other species would regard cyberware with distaste. As a girl, I remember there was a character called Vance in one of the early Marvel comics - he was a heavily-cybered bounty hunter and everyone (including himself) seemed to find him monstrous.

When we'd discussed lopping off healthy limbs for mechanical replacements, I think the word I used was "icky". Monstrous might be a better word for it.

BTW, you made me google Shadworun.

"Shadowrun is a science fantasy tabletop role-playing game set in a near-future fictional universe in which cybernetics, magic and fantasy creatures co-exist. It combines genres of cyberpunk, urban fantasy and crime, with occasional elements of conspiracy fiction, horror and detective fiction."

I apologize for going off topic but... OMG... THAT SOUNDS AMAZING!!!!

Wait until your eyes are bleeding halfway through character creation (and buying gear tends to be at least half of character creation in Shadowrun, so...). The amazement dies.

Cybernetics are not the bomb. They do have some drawbacks. And the maximum bonus to an attribute you can get is +2, to either Brawn or Agility (or +1 to each). Intelligence gets a max of +1. So it is not like you can just cyber up. It is just another option much like taking the Dedication talents.

Wait until your eyes are bleeding halfway through character creation (and buying gear tends to be at least half of character creation in Shadowrun, so...). The amazement dies.

Meh. You get the hang of it.

Thanks to all Gentlebeings, Yes Thaliak. I am a fast talking smuggler, a scoundrel with even a faster drawn blaster and a pilot with the fastest ship in the sector. Comm me if you need freight hauled somewhere, just no livestock or slaves and members of the Alliance get a 10% discount.

Peace Gentlebeings

My GM has TONS of Shadowrun books. They're right there on his shelves, not stored away or anything. So many books, some action figures, a couple of leather bound copies of the third edition (but he says his favorite edition was second). He said it was his absolute favorite game to run. He even ran it at conventions. I didn't even know he went to roleplaying game conventions.

So he told me some stories from the game he ran and it sounds incredible. I think I made him happy by asking about it. And, he says maybe we'll give it a try.

Ok this has finally made we weigh in on these forums. So hello to all of ye here.

Shadowrun was where I broke my pen and paper RPG cherry. 2nd edition was my fave. It is now into fifth edition, and it is a pretty decent game. As pointed out, yeah the gear buying can be somewhat problematic, if not overwhelming for new players. But the stories, man that game gave up some of the coolest events for an rpg.

As to the original topic. I like that you can't raise characteristics pass chargen. One, to me, it makes the game feel like basic stat wise the game levels the playing field that standard "by the level" rpgs don't do. That minion group at the beigning of the game could be just as deadly (not as much as before mind you) as it was back then. Not like I'm wading into a pool of kobolds and hacking away like I am getting paid to de-weed the lawn of the dungeon keeps abode.

This isn't Shadowrun. Droids upgrading their bodies seems fine, but I think other species would regard cyberware with distaste. As a girl, I remember there was a character called Vance in one of the early Marvel comics - he was a heavily-cybered bounty hunter and everyone (including himself) seemed to find him monstrous.

Kind of sorta - Valance the Hunter was more into self loathing for his condition and a pathological hatred of droids. Since the cybernetics had a synthskin covering, he wasn't all that horrific - well, at least on the outside. Inside, he was a pretty broken dude. So yeah, in a way, you're right.

Yeah, that's him. That was what, early 80's? I kinda fancied him - he was the sort of brooding, good-looking messed-up loser I ended up dating for most of my adult life. Meh.

And thanks for reminding me about the green rabbit. I'd completely forgotten about him. Another blow to my hipster childhood memories, thinking how cool Star Wars was before the prequels. Bah.

And 35 cents? Wow. What's that in proper Sterling money? A comic book for less than a quid? Man, I'm old

In the long run, I was looking to build smuggler/pilot/scoundrel. I usually try to build well rounded characters. My first thought was 40 exp for characteristics, 30 exp for skills and 30 exp for talents. As I said before about cybernetics if you can improve your characteristics through electronics now what's the philosophical difference in sweat and effort (exp).

Spend all that you can on characteristics. After all, you do start the game with 6 skill ranks (8 if you're human), and after the first couple of sessions you can easily round out several more, and some talents too. If you want a little mix-maxing, spend your first XP on a second out-of-career specialization that has new career skills. The XP savings will pay for the spec in short order.

As for cybernetics, I think there should be drawbacks, both social and physical. Luckily none of my players have expressed an interest.

Yeah, that's him. That was what, early 80's? I kinda fancied him - he was the sort of brooding, good-looking messed-up loser I ended up dating for most of my adult life. Meh.

And thanks for reminding me about the green rabbit. I'd completely forgotten about him. Another blow to my hipster childhood memories, thinking how cool Star Wars was before the prequels. Bah.

And 35 cents? Wow. What's that in proper Sterling money? A comic book for less than a quid? Man, I'm old

The marvel comics ran from 77 through 85 - I think the Valance story arc was about 1979 or so? He showed up a couple of times in the Archie Goodwin run, so that sounds about right. Of course the UK covers were not nearly as flattering to Valance. He doesn't look nearly as awesome in the Star Wars Weekly:

(I'm guessing that 35 cents works out to about 10P - at least according to my scientific conversion process of looking at the comparable covers. )

And it's the wrong system, but for a real blast from the past, you should check out the Unofficial Marvel Comics Sourcebook that someone did for the D6 engine. The stats are all wrong, but the write ups are solid. Here's the page for the Big Green Bunny.

Wow, talk about a thread hijack, it's now a threesome.

Shadowrun was where I broke my pen and paper RPG cherry. 2nd edition was my fave. It is now into fifth edition, and it is a pretty decent game. As pointed out, yeah the gear buying can be somewhat problematic, if not overwhelming for new players. But the stories, man that game gave up some of the coolest events for an rpg.

I've only played 4th, 4th (20th Anniversary) and 5th. 5th improved some systemic Matrix issues that go back to at least 3rd ed and really tamp back on overall character power level. I like 4th best, but it was really Magicrun for a reason, and there was a lot less limit on how much you could twink out a character.

And it's the wrong system, but for a real blast from the past, you should check out the Unofficial Marvel Comics Sourcebook that someone did for the D6 engine. The stats are all wrong, but the write ups are solid. Here's the page for the Big Green Bunny.

Wow, that's just...! We played a lot of d6 back in the day.

It's funny, but I remember a lot of that. Some of it, like Valance or Crimson Jack, was pretty cool. Amaiza was good, in a stripperific, stupidly-named kind of way. I think she'd fit in just fine with the Krayt Dragons.

But that green rabbit... Another piece of my childhood dies screaming. People thought Jar-Jar was worse than this???

Wow, talk about a thread hijack, it's now a threesome.

Sorry! <blush>

I blame Desslok for bringing long buried memories back to the fore.

I think I paid good money for some psychiatrist to bury my memories of the green rabbit guy.

.

Wow, talk about a thread hijack, it's now a threesome.

Have you ever had a GOOD conversation with someone that didn't go off in a gazillion new directions???

On yet another tangent...

I can't see the pictures that are getting attached to the messages so my mind's eye played all kinds of tricks on me with that green bunny. Maelora's message made me think that the cybernetic guy WAS the green bunny. I envisioned this cute, fuzzy little green bunny with cybernetic limbs... and I could not, for the life of me, get that version of him to be a nasty bounty hunter, let alone a brooding, good-looking (cute and fuzzy? YES.. hottie? not so much), messed-up loser. I only realized my mistake when Desslok gave the links in his message.

I sure wish I could somehow share the images I had in my mind - including the one with him out on a date with my mind's eye version of Maelora... I think you'd all be laughing as much as I am.

Sorry! <blush>

I blame Desslok for bringing long buried memories back to the fore.

I think I paid good money for some psychiatrist to bury my memories of the green rabbit guy.

I feel like I've missed so much!

I don't think my generation gets so traumatized by things like this because we're only 3 minutes away from something else to distract us. We don't need the psychiatrists to help us forget. We need them to help us remember!

But that green rabbit... Another piece of my childhood dies screaming. People thought Jar-Jar was worse than this???

Yeah, everybody always gives Jar-Jar stick, but they quickly forget that the history of Star Wars has always been kind of goofy with Giant Green Rabbits, R2's pratfalls and the four-armed Harvey Corman cooking show.

And Maelora on a date with a cybernetic giant green bunny? Now THAT'S comedy!

...

I think I paid good money for some psychiatrist to bury my memories of the green rabbit guy.

...

I don't think my generation gets so traumatized by things like this because we're only 3 minutes away from something else to distract us. We don't need the psychiatrists to help us forget. We need them to help us remember!

You bet.

I sure wish I could somehow share the images I had in my mind - including the one with him out on a date with my mind's eye version of Maelora... I think you'd all be laughing as much as I am.

Thanks, now I have to buy a new keyboard! This one is drenched in coffee!

I don't think my generation gets so traumatized by things like this because we're only 3 minutes away from something else to distract us. We don't need the psychiatrists to help us forget. We need them to help us remember!

Bah, you kids don't know how hard it was growing up a Star Wars geek in the early 80's. My Princess Leia doll looked more like Wilfrid Brimly than Carrie Fisher. We didn't have an EU, we didn't even have an internet! We didn't have an RPG until much later, unless you wanted to use Star Frontiers, which at least had lightsabers, but no psionics.

I mean, I had a Chewbacca cookbook at one point, and I liked it!

And I wanted Luke's lightsaber, not Leia's, which was apparently 'fit for Princesses'.

"Leia's not a Jedi!" I protested.

Yeah, I know they retconned that one, but back in 1983 I was right.

And Maelora on a date with a cybernetic giant green bunny? Now THAT'S comedy!

Laugh it up, penguin-boy

Bah, you kids don't know how hard it was growing up a Star Wars geek in the early 80's. My Princess Leia doll looked more like Wilfrid Brimly than Carrie Fisher. We didn't have an EU, we didn't even have an internet! We didn't have an RPG until much later, unless you wanted to use Star Frontiers, which at least had lightsabers, but no psionics.

I mean, I had a Chewbacca cookbook at one point, and I liked it!

And I wanted Luke's lightsaber, not Leia's, which was apparently 'fit for Princesses'.

"Leia's not a Jedi!" I protested.

Yeah, I know they retconned that one, but back in 1983 I was right.

Not sure which I should be more surprised by. That there was a Princess Leia light saber... or a Chewbacca cookbook.

But I do wish I knew what Wilfrid Brimly looked like.