That being said, I was more interested in mechanical aspects. How are the Dark Eldar classes from a mechanical point of view? Are they too strong/weak? Any interesting things they can pull off/the GM should be aware of?

I don't 'believe' in playing mathhammer (nor am I accusing you), but they're very good at combat and things requiring Agility, so sneaking and piloting.

So from a gaming perspective they have a handful of good niches that they can fulfill easily, based on raw stats. Career and Advanced Ranks are mostly combat focused obviously. But you have enough flexibility that you're not pidgeon-holed in to playing Killy McStabstab the whole game.

An idea of mine I've never got to play is basically a reaver, leaning toward fighter piloting later. Something I think he'd be pretty good at, considering the previously alluded bonuses to Agility that Eldar have.

Case in point: when I was considering this dark Eldar we already had a character that did the piloting for the party(and little else). Bringing in a character that did piloting better in adition to other stuff wouldn't have.been the micest move

I wouldn't think it to be TOO unreasonable for a Dark Eldar to be on a Rogue Trader's ship. The Rogue Trader could have a few dozen captured enemies for the Dark Eldar to feed off of.

Also, even though Dark Eldars are arrogant and xenophobic they may be on the run from other Dark Eldar hungting them and they just want some thrills.

I understand why many wouldn't want Dark Eldar in their group. They ARE chaotic evil. And as such Dark Eldar PCs more often then not become overbearing and obnoxious to the rest of the group unless they're played up for laughs.

I understand why many wouldn't want Dark Eldar in their group. They ARE chaotic evil. And as such Dark Eldar PCs more often then not become overbearing and obnoxious to the rest of the group unless they're played up for laughs.

They are Chaotic Evil in a world where almost every race is some kind of Evil. Mankind's default approach is 'It

's Xeno/Witch/Heretic/just different so kill it with fire' after all. Given what sort of fate awaits them when they die, I would expect a Dark Eldar to have 'don't to stupid stuff that gets you killed' pretty high on their priority list.

Can the lawful evil Rogue Trader throw up enough barriers to contain the chaotic evil of the DE?

This seems like the core question of any DE PC. Like how Ork PCs are defined by when they Spore. Our how tech priests and Psykers invariably go nuts and try to kill everyone.

I understand why many wouldn't want Dark Eldar in their group. They ARE chaotic evil. And as such Dark Eldar PCs more often then not become overbearing and obnoxious to the rest of the group unless they're played up for laughs.

You are literaly the Hitler. You've declared the whole species to be an irredimable evil based on the general preconceptions the Imperium has about them. This makes you a terrible person. Each individual Dark Eldar may or may not be a torture happy psychopath, beyond the physical needs of not having his soul sucked out.

people seem to be confusing real life with gaming.

But these questions should influence the kind of game you're running. As written DEldar have to behave a certain way, and even if the players are all okay with that, the people that serve them or they interact with have all sorts of cocked eyebrows.

people seem to be confusing real life with gaming.

That sounds just like something a heretic would say!

But these questions should influence the kind of game you're running. As written DEldar have to behave a certain way, and even if the players are all okay with that, the people that serve them or they interact with have all sorts of cocked eyebrows.

Dark Eldar have a functioning civilisation - they're a remnant of a culture that once ruled the stars for longer than humans have existed. They have industry and art and trade and social classes. They're political, cunning, avaricious, and machiavellian to a great degree. Yes, they eat your fear, but they're also beings who plan for the long-term (because they live a long time), and are as inclined to rational thought as to acts of passion.

They aren't savages. They're fear-poets and murder-artists. They're the nobility of an ancient civilisation who hunt (people) for sport and sustenance. Their schemes span centuries, their patience and cunning legendary. Their motives are simple, their methods diverse, and their greed infinite.

How are they not perfect allies for a Rogue Trader?

I think that summarizes how they should be used: mysterious allies with their own agendas, and you work together when your goals work to (or appear to) work together. There should always be the ever-present undercurrent of when the alliance is going to break down, who's going to break it down, who's going to come out ahead, and how long it's going to be good for the two of you to be working together.

There are a number of groups that can do that sort of dynamic very well, but I like all my players to be on the same team, which is why that doesn't appeal for me. For groups that can make it work, I bet they could tell some amazing stories with it.

>>>> How are they not perfect allies for a Rogue Trader?

Years later, the penniless Rogue Trader wakes up from another drunken bender in a booth in a tavern

in Port Wander. As he splashes cold water on his face, the even icier realization dawns upon him:

Those Dark Eldar bastards that helped me years ago

were just using me as a pawn in their long chess game.

There is one key difference between the dark eldar and the death cult assassin. The death cult assassin believes in the emperor. Now, I am somewhat at a loss how it is feasable for dark eldar to operate on a rogue trader ship, while eldar as a whole have a distnct reputation for subterfuge, stealth, trickery and being flat out spies. This isn't a "dark eldar" problem, it's an "eldar" problem. Orkz are viable; they're controllable mercenaries, dito on kroot.

The eldar, on the other hand, unlike the human, emperor-loyal death cult assassin, is going to be suspect from day one. Any imperial party who knows even the slightest bit about eldar (usually the military and church, which you do not want mad at you, generally...) is going to assume the eldar is an insurgent, just to be safe.

I can see eldar/dark eldar to be viable as a full eldar campaign, but not on a human ship for an extended period of time. If they're part of your regular crew, eventually, someone will find out, and you will lose your writ and your life, not necessarily in that order.

"Orks" and "Controllable" never go in the same sentence.

They're manageable at best, as my Rogue Trader has learned.

Hah! Well, point being, the imperial view on orkz is more akin to "dangerous, but stupid", so something you can conceivably keep on a leash (wether it's actually true or not doesn't matter there, that's the stereotype and the consequence one could argue ICly). Eldar, on the other hand, well, their stereotype is "Spy. Do not trust them, ever. SPY. BACKSTABBER.". You're going to get a lot more heat for a pet Eldar than for the equivalent of an attack dog. People are likely to assume that you're the xenos' puppet, as well, and act accordingly, in their case.

I absolutely agree with DeathbyGrotz, especially since he emphasizes that's the Imperial View on Orks. My game views making alliances with Orkish Freebooterz as constituting "You're going to get what you deserve", and they frequently do. My crew rescued a group of Orks from Dark Eldar and were using them for deniability raids on their enemies. It worked out okay as the Orks had a lot to fight and there was no great issue, but then the Orks got a little too full of themselves and a great WAAAAAGH descended.

The moral of the story was that Orks in small numbers can be steered, but never in large numbers, and they can never truly be "controlled".

Dark Eldar have potential, but i would port them over to Black crusade. At least there one torture obsessed murderous bastard wont stand out that moch from the other psychotic characters. Altough teh tought of the dark eldar aand the slaanesh champion getting togetehr for soem R&R... shudder.

So yeah, mature groups only... making the GM vomit should not be the main focus of the session

Dark Eldar have potential, but i would port them over to Black crusade. At least there one torture obsessed murderous bastard wont stand out that moch from the other psychotic characters. Altough teh tought of the dark eldar aand the slaanesh champion getting togetehr for soem R&R... shudder.

So yeah, mature groups only... making the GM vomit should not be the main focus of the session

Ah, the superficial logic that says "Dark Eldar must get on great with Chaos worshippers, because they're all spiky and evil!"

A champion of Slaanesh is a mortal worshipping the being that destroyed Eldar civilisation. Its every action and thought is appeasement of She Who Thirsts, the Doom of the Eldar, the very thing that the Dark Eldar strive to elude with every waking moment (they eat pain and terror to prolong their lives; they prolong their lives to avoid dying and being devoured by Slaanesh).

Why would an Eldar, of any sort, spend any time socialising with a Champion of Slaanesh?

The mercenary side can come into play here - Fabius Bile (who, admittedly, is more scientist than daemon-worshipper) is known to have trained with Haemonculi to perfect his fleshcrafting - but Chaos is one of the fundamental enemies of Eldarkind as a whole.

Just as importantly, Dark Eldar don't work in the advancement structure for Black Crusade - they don't sit with the alignment rules well (as they aren't Chaos worshippers) and the corruption rules in BC are completely inappropriate for them.

According to the latest Allies Matrix, the DEldar will form "Desperate Allies" with almost everyone except for some Space Marine chapters, Necrons and Tyranids, and they have absolutely no Allies of Convenience. However they do possess a Battle Brothers alliance with the Eldar, which is surprisingly telling. No matter how Chaos tainted and paranoid one are, they still have far more in common with each other than they do with anyone else.

I can see the DEldar forming alliances with everyone because they are actively plotting to betray them, and are likely assuming that their allies are doing the same. They'd probably be surprised, amused and highly confused by an ally who wasn't trying to betray them as well.

Dark Eldar have potential, but i would port them over to Black crusade. At least there one torture obsessed murderous bastard wont stand out that moch from the other psychotic characters. Altough teh tought of the dark eldar aand the slaanesh champion getting togetehr for soem R&R... shudder.

So yeah, mature groups only... making the GM vomit should not be the main focus of the session

Ah, the superficial logic that says "Dark Eldar must get on great with Chaos worshippers, because they're all spiky and evil!"

A champion of Slaanesh is a mortal worshipping the being that destroyed Eldar civilisation. Its every action and thought is appeasement of She Who Thirsts, the Doom of the Eldar, the very thing that the Dark Eldar strive to elude with every waking moment (they eat pain and terror to prolong their lives; they prolong their lives to avoid dying and being devoured by Slaanesh).

Why would an Eldar, of any sort, spend any time socialising with a Champion of Slaanesh?

The mercenary side can come into play here - Fabius Bile (who, admittedly, is more scientist than daemon-worshipper) is known to have trained with Haemonculi to perfect his fleshcrafting - but Chaos is one of the fundamental enemies of Eldarkind as a whole.

Just as importantly, Dark Eldar don't work in the advancement structure for Black Crusade - they don't sit with the alignment rules well (as they aren't Chaos worshippers) and the corruption rules in BC are completely inappropriate for them.

I didn't say they would get on great. I just tought they would get along better with the guys who are raiding planets to maim and enslave like Deldar do, rather than rich imperials cruising around looking for the next profit margin. I mean WHY would a Deldar join a RT? Get stuck with these crude mon-keigh on their ugly, ugly ships? no thanks!

I put the slaanesh champion and the Deldar together becuz they are the two characters that can get out of hand and squicky in the hands of the wrong players. Even I will play my slaaneshi raptor as a depraved monster with a tendency to go for the schola progenium pupils, untill my Gm kindly asked me to tone it down a notch. And thats not counting theother guy in my group who described his armor as "spiked with fetuses impaled on it" - eeeeewww, that got banned quick!

Better question: Why is the DEldar not making off with said rich imperial's crown jewels (literally and figuratively) at the first opportunity?

LOL!

Then again, why would they want jewels? They are Deldar, they technology that could steal suns, to light their pocket dimension. What use would they have for human baubles? (now that has me thinking, would they want "used" eldar soulstones?)

Now the human CREW on the other hand...

Thers is this short segment off fluff of Deldar raiding an imperial transport, and the captain is all like "but-but we don't have anything worth taking! we only carry a group of pilgrims to a shrine world!" and the Deldar raider says: "So you do have something of value after all."

Dark Eldar have potential, but i would port them over to Black crusade. At least there one torture obsessed murderous bastard wont stand out that moch from the other psychotic characters. Altough teh tought of the dark eldar aand the slaanesh champion getting togetehr for soem R&R... shudder.

So yeah, mature groups only... making the GM vomit should not be the main focus of the session

Ah, the superficial logic that says "Dark Eldar must get on great with Chaos worshippers, because they're all spiky and evil!"

A champion of Slaanesh is a mortal worshipping the being that destroyed Eldar civilisation. Its every action and thought is appeasement of She Who Thirsts, the Doom of the Eldar, the very thing that the Dark Eldar strive to elude with every waking moment (they eat pain and terror to prolong their lives; they prolong their lives to avoid dying and being devoured by Slaanesh).

Why would an Eldar, of any sort, spend any time socialising with a Champion of Slaanesh?

The mercenary side can come into play here - Fabius Bile (who, admittedly, is more scientist than daemon-worshipper) is known to have trained with Haemonculi to perfect his fleshcrafting - but Chaos is one of the fundamental enemies of Eldarkind as a whole.

Just as importantly, Dark Eldar don't work in the advancement structure for Black Crusade - they don't sit with the alignment rules well (as they aren't Chaos worshippers) and the corruption rules in BC are completely inappropriate for them.

I didn't say they would get on great. I just tought they would get along better with the guys who are raiding planets to maim and enslave like Deldar do, rather than rich imperials cruising around looking for the next profit margin. I mean WHY would a Deldar join a RT? Get stuck with these crude mon-keigh on their ugly, ugly ships? no thanks!

I put the slaanesh champion and the Deldar together becuz they are the two characters that can get out of hand and squicky in the hands of the wrong players. Even I will play my slaaneshi raptor as a depraved monster with a tendency to go for the schola progenium pupils, untill my Gm kindly asked me to tone it down a notch. And thats not counting theother guy in my group who described his armor as "spiked with fetuses impaled on it" - eeeeewww, that got banned quick!

Fundamentally, the "guys who are raiding planets to maim and enslave like [Dark Eldar] do" are the competition . They're rivals, rather than potential allies. Servants of Chaos represent and revere the extradimensional entities that the Dark Eldar fear and loathe.

Sure, Dark Eldar and servants of Slaanesh both go from the same kinds of depravity... but that's because Slaanesh was born from everything twisted and depraved about the Eldar. A Champion of Slaanesh is a servant of a being that is the literal embodiment of every dark thought and vile impulse that every Eldar has ever had . It's no surprise that there are some superficial similarities. Thing is, the Dark Eldar don't want anything to do with the god their ancestors spawned - that's why they spend so much time and effort trying to avoid or overcome death. Socialising with a Champion of Slaanesh is... counter-productive.

The thing with Dark Eldar is that it's easy to get caught up in the murder and torture, but individual Dark Eldar live for centuries in a culture which is violently political. They live a long time, they plot and scheme, and thus they have long-term agendas and ambitions. What short-term objective a Dark Eldar may have at any given moment is likely part of a longer-term plan to elevate his status within the Dark City. It might be something straightforward like obtaining whatever obscure and baroque 'payment' a Haemonculus wants to perform a particular service. It might be searching for a lost treasure, or an ancient relic of Eldarkind from a world that the Webway no longer reaches. It might be anything - the individual Dark Eldar never has to explain her motives to those she is allying with. Just remember that they'll have a motive other than the immediate needs of sustenance, much as human beings have agendas beyond their next meal.

Slaanesh has other enemies as well. What about temporary alliances with followers of Khorne/Nurgle?

(given BC, for some strange reason, has Nurgle opposed to Slaanesh as well. Don't ask me why. We changed the entire bloody alignment system and just took WHFRP2's in our game instead).

Slaanesh has other enemies as well. What about temporary alliances with followers of Khorne/Nurgle?

(given BC, for some strange reason, has Nurgle opposed to Slaanesh as well. Don't ask me why. We changed the entire bloody alignment system and just took WHFRP2's in our game instead).

Well, the fact that Khorne, the magic-hating psyker-killing god of melee combat has Prince of Pleasure as his greatest enemy, and not the god of magic, is just another proof of Tzeentch's magnificent bastardness.