Is the OW version meant to be crap?

Compared to Ascension (can't remember if it appears in RT or not), it is the same, except:

1. It holds 80 any type las shots (not sure if this goes into heavy weapons or not)

2. The ascension one holds 300 normal shots, 150 for hellgun type weapons

3. 25 kg vs the 15 kg

4. Lack of storage, the Ascension one not only weighs less, but lets you carry stuff on/in it, which is a great feature

Do you feel the Ascension is broken? Also, for flame/melta/plasma weapons, it is a great thing.

Is it just me or is roughly 80 shots or so more realistic for a hellgun? It just seems, even for one engagement, 40 shots (somehow less for a pistol which uses less?) not to be sufficient and if anything goes wrong, it seems like storm troopers would be out of luck and dead most of their missions (especially if they can't get evac)

the backpack ammo supplies have been pretty much broken from Dark Heresy to Only War

look into the Dark Heresy 2 beta, which has the first good implementaion that makes sense without being overpowered

I never saw the DH 2e Beta, what can you tell me about it? How did it work out?

I never saw the DH 2e Beta, what can you tell me about it? How did it work out?

It multiplied your clip size by five. Essentially instead of being a piece of gear the backpack is a weapon upgrade that increase your effective clip five times but you can't reload in combat. If the weapon jams you lose your clip size in ammo (that is your normal clip size).

Ascension, largely considered broken by many in the community, is meant for Inquisition-level operatives of the upper echelons of power.

Only War, on the other hand, is the ass-end of the spectrum. You're grunts, out in the trenches, being issues bad gear if at all, wrong gear as a matter of norm.

So while it might be a balance issue, and that backpack power packs were toned down, I do believe that this is one of those cases where it's entirely possible that it's very much on purpose, and either way, no matter how this happened, it's entirely appropriate.

Regular Imperial Guardsmen should virtually never have access the Inquisitor-level hardware, especially not individually.

Except hellguns for the elite infantry, Kaskrin, Grenadiers and whenever you want your regiment to be less on the average side

Except hellguns for the elite infantry, Kaskrin, Grenadiers and whenever you want your regiment to be less on the average side

Even then, the one from Ascension is probably a much more advanced and hard-to-obtain version than what stormtroopers and such are issued. There's still a very wide gap between the Guard's elite and an Inquisitor.

I don't remember there being that much of a difference gear wise for Inquisitorial and Normal Stormtroopers, or to even kaskrin, though the latter are more integrated in their own army

I don't remember there being that much of a difference gear wise for Inquisitorial and Normal Stormtroopers, or to even kaskrin, though the latter are more integrated in their own army

Ascension is for people playing as Inquisitors or members of their immediate retinue, they'd have access to better gear than Storm Troopers, whether they've been seconded to the Inquisition or not. An Inquisitorial Storm Trooper would still use the same gear they used when part of the Guard, the backpack power source in Ascension is for actual Inquisitors or their retinues, not the squad of badasses they brought with them.

I don't remember there being that much of a difference gear wise for Inquisitorial and Normal Stormtroopers, or to even kaskrin, though the latter are more integrated in their own army

Kaskrin are technically grenadiers, afaik - they are fully part of the Cadian Regiments, whereas Stormtroopers are at least "on paper" all part of one single Regiment, and are then attached to other regiments.

The big difference between Inquisitorial and Standard Stormtroopers, I would say, is that Inquisitorial Stormtroopers likely have greater opportunity to customize their gear, and access to better gear overall, as requisitioned by the Inquisitor under whom they serve, or other inquisitorial channels, or simply something they picked up during missions, assuming that they are an Acolyte or part of a retinue.

A standard Stormtrooper has to make do with what they get and what's available.

I see what you mean, though the basic gear doesn't change too much between those, even for the Kaskrin.

What solutions are there for trying to get a decent ammo supply for a hellgun without it being utterly unrealistic.

The only difference between "regular" stormtroopers and Inquisitorial ones is the ones that go the the guard didn`t make the grade.

The entire stormtrooper initiatve is a method of producing solid, dependable troopers for inquisitorial service those trainee units that manageto complete their training but don`t reach the exceedingly high standards set by the inquisition are given to the Munitorum to serve out their lifelong service somewhere their skills can be useful.

source?

I have seen it mentioned in the Cain books at the very least and probably somewhere else too (Ascension? OW?)

What might require this backpack (not so much CAN use it as MUST)? I've seen some models with such types of things, and others not. Do power weapons use them? I've seen cables, and such, going up Sergeant's arms in the range. My dual-power fist governor might be a snippet different if his nice, red cape is also covering a bulky generator.

It may well be that there is nothing that must use these backpacks. GW minis have models using hellguns both with and without them, and I recall them being optional in Dark Heresy too (with the caveat that some weapons using them was treated as the standard, and not doing so dividing the gun's "clip size" by 4). The same might apply to power weapons, where the cable-less version tends to show up more with forces that just are not "in the field" as long as a unit of Guardsmen (Space Marines, Battle Sisters, Inquisitors), and thus would not need a weapon that's capable of running with an active power field for more than a day without the chance to recharge its batteries.

Alternatively, it could be a question of craftsmanship or archaeotech, with superior patterns featuring a more sophisticated battery that does not require to be worn on the back but is small enough to be an internal component of the weapon itself. I think both these options would work as possible explanations?

As for the Storm Troopers, them being "drop outs" would actually fit how they are sometimes used in FFG's material ("grunts +1" that could show up just about anywhere) compared to Codex fluff (elite regiment with a very specialised deployment doctrine). Which of these versions you ultimately end up using in your game will always be up to the individual group, though. My DW group also decided to discard the whole "Deathwatch no longer part of the Inquisition" bit.

There's nothing about stormtroopers having a very specialized deployment doctrine in the codex. They seem to be used de facto in TT, when they are used, as airborne troops (because they suck in every other capacity, supposedly), but there is nothing about that in the fluff text.

The original Storm Trooper models' hot-shot las guns were actually powered by hot-shot packs...

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2009/4/7/26413_sm-2nd%20Edition,%20Artwork,%20Beret,%20Copyright%20Games%20Workshop,%20Imperial%20Guard,%20Retro%20Review,%20Storm%20Troopers.jpg

The next iteration weren't...

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1251744_99110105230_StormTrooperssqd1main_873x627.jpg

The Kasrkin are...

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_2b27pIRfTQU/Sfi0KQuMTOI/AAAAAAAAFg4/noJMSPplhUU/s800/DSCF0469.jpg

For what it's worth, I require non-Astartes power fists be powered by backpack power sources, like this:

http://www.coolminiornot.com/pics/pics7/img4234f560160fc.jpg

There's nothing about stormtroopers having a very specialized deployment doctrine in the codex. They seem to be used de facto in TT, when they are used, as airborne troops (because they suck in every other capacity, supposedly), but there is nothing about that in the fluff text.

Actually, I was more referring to their highly limited use, which isn't really reflected in some of FFG's books - which is little wonder, as we had one writer state right here on the forums that the Codex numbers (~10k) are quite simply too limiting for how often he'd like to use them (example: "impromptu military police"), and so he simply dismissed that detail in favour of a much larger force capable to show up just about anywhere the writer wants. Maybe FFG has increased the number of SoB here for the exact same reason?

Back then, I was still reeling from the shocking realisation that 40k does not actually have a clear-cut background and that the background depends entirely on one's personal preferences, so I was rather shocked about that revelation. In retrospect, it was a silly and embarrassing behaviour, but in my defense, it resulted out of a false belief created by the lies and rumours of the community, as well as the companies themselves not being very open about how the IP "works".

In Codex fluff, the ST regiment also does not fight in one place but is instead scattered all across the Imperium, with individual elements being attached to IG Army Groups in an active warzone to "provide a core of ultra-trained, well-equipped squads that can be spread amongst the other Imperial Guard regiments as needed". Unlike your average IG, they are trained to "perform covert operations, spearhead assaults into fortified positions and storm key installations, deploying ahead the rest of an army and infiltrating behind enemy lines to engage the foe and cause maximum confusion". (2E C:IG p21, 5E C:IG p46)

Quite different from how your normal Guard regiment deploys!

On a sidenote, though, the fluff in the 5E Codex actually does reflect their occasional TT use as airborne troops, too:

"They are often dropped into the midst of the enemy during battle. Leaping from low-flying aircraft and descending using grav-chutes, Storm Troopers land into the middle of fierce firefights, guns blazing before they even hit the ground."

- 5E C:IG, p46

It is perhaps even more obvious in Apocalypse:

"The Storm Trooper regiment is one of the few to have a permanent pool of Valkyrie Assault Carriers to carry them into battle. With the speed of these aircraft to deliver them ot their mission coordinates, the Storm Troopers take their enemy by surprise, smashing through windows and doors before the enemy can mount an effective resistance. The Valkyries provide covering fire for the Storm Troopers as they advance towards the objective. Without pause or hesitation, they sweep through enemy-held structure, cutting down their quarry with efficient bursts of high-powered lasfire."

- Datasheet: Storm Trooper Strike Force

The original Storm Trooper models' hot-shot las guns were actually powered by hot-shot packs... [...] The next iteration weren't...

It seems GW went back and forth using the terms "hot shot lasgun" and "hellgun" interchangeably. In 2E it was standard lasguns powered by hot shot chargepacks worn on the back, then in 3E it was hellguns (or HEL-guns, for high energy laser, which supposedly was the original name before becoming bastardised by millennia of IG slang), and in 5E it reverted back to hot shot lasguns, but now with specially cooled barrels and "gyro-stabilised power packs" (which seems to imply they're worn on the back again).

Interestingly, the miniatures you linked are clearly painted as Inquisitorial Storm Troopers. Whilst it could be simple coincidence*, you could fluff it as ISTs using a smaller power cell, sacrificing the loss in ammunition for greater mobility, and taking into consideration that as ISTs they won't be "in the field" as much as Munitorum Storm Troopers. After all, in GW's material, ISTs are most often used as mere guards on Inquisitorial facilities and Black Ships, and actual combat deployment being a secondary concern (and even then their "black ops" missions likely would not be as long).

*: though 3E was when Codex Witch Hunters and Daemon Hunters were released, so it's possible that these minis were designed for the Inquisition from the start, and they are simply "proxying" for the IG, if you will - we actually have a similar case with the current SoB Banner Bearer, which used to be an alternate option for the Simulacrum Carrier ... the real Banner Bearer is simply OOP, much like the original Storm Trooper minis