So I played three games today at the game store. Lost all three BADLY...Only destroyed two or three ships combined in the three games. What makes it even worse was two of the losses were with my best squad...the only squad I have a winning record with. I'll admit the dice werent on my side but still. Im definetly with the crowd who thinks the dice luck is a major factor in games.

I can handle losing....but losing like that made me feel like it was my first time playing. Doesnt help that ive lost most of my games on vassal lately either.

I feel for you. I got in two games today, one against my nine year old daughter, who kicked my butt pretty good. And I wasn't taking it easy on her either. She had Chewie with Luke and a couple other upgrades against four Obsidian Squadron pilots (we were recreating the escape from the Death Star). She did a lot of focusing, and was rolling either two or three hits and a focus EVERY TIME! I don't think she rolled a blank on her attack dice the whole game.

The second game was with a friend who was just getting into the game, and wanted to try out his new stuff. He had Wedge, Luke and Horton against Soontir, Turr, Rhymer and Mauler Mithel. I won that one, but it was close. I made some pretty big mistakes, but pulled it out in the end.

It is demoralizing, but then you gotta think, what can I do in the next game to make dice rolls not matter as much? I mean, they always will, but things like, coming in on weird angles, blocking enemy actions, keeping all your actions, etc. I do know that the last few games I lost that were bad, such as has having every single academy tie be one shot by wedge/han, I probably could have alpha striked a bit differently, etc, etc.

imo the swingy-ness of this game is its biggest (and perhaps one of few) bad things. dice beats skill on most days. skill helps a lot but dice helps more.

I got knocked out of contention for first today by a kid who just could not roll less than two or more hits on his attacks. Couple with bad moves, and a distinct lack of green dodging, yeah..

The Luck/Randomness of the dice is a deciding factor a lot of the time, but sometimes you can just do everything right and still get spanked. I'd much rather lose that way than via army lists that are woefully unbalanced in other minis games.

This game has enough tactics to make me feel good when I win, and enough dice luck to make me feel better when I lose The nice thing for me is I have fun playing this game even when I'm getting schooled. It feels a lot more casual than most mini games.

I have often wondered if this game would work better with a damage deck and no dice.. much like Wings of Glory... each card has damage and you take what you draw. Ships would have more hull or shields to soak damage, but there woula also be (boom) cards.. instant kills.. and anyone could be one shot... being familiar with a system that uses such a system I think it would work alright. I know not everyone will think as I do, but it would be interesting to see it in action..

I don't mind the dice mechanics for the sheer fact that I firmly believes everyone rolls average eventually. it helps me get past a bad loss and really look at what I could of done differently since if I don't look at the dice, which I can't control, I can start looking at everything else which I generally can.

The caveat to this is that I wish you rolled more dice in general so they didn't seem so finicky. Rolling 2 or 3 dice and having them all miss just feels bad. Rolling more would stop the chancing of that happening more often.

I feel for you. I got in two games today, one against my nine year old daughter, who kicked my butt pretty good. And I wasn't taking it easy on her either. She had Chewie with Luke and a couple other upgrades against four Obsidian Squadron pilots (we were recreating the escape from the Death Star). She did a lot of focusing, and was rolling either two or three hits and a focus EVERY TIME! I don't think she rolled a blank on her attack dice the whole game.

Look at that the good way. If she was hitting with all of those attack then Luke would just be sitting on this thumbs the whole time. Besides, is there a more use friendly and straight forward ship than Chewie with some kind of Gunner?

Luck can be cruel but it can also turn. Although you may want to resign because you are down to your last hull points that bad luck could suddenly turn the other way and see your ship clear out the enemy as he misses you.

On this last point there is one thing EVERYONE should do: if someone offers a concession and you want to win you TAKE IT! It may have been a different game but I once survived a Chess game with only my King against SEVEN Queens; my opponent wouldn't accept my resignation (I couldn't win) until he humiliated me only to see his INVINCIBLE force settle for a draw.

Slightly off topic but seven queens? Hubris kills faster than just about anything.

Back on topic, losing used to be really frustrating for me. Now when getting hosed I try to learn as much as I can and also set some smaller goals, I may go down but if I can just get one ship, or last three rounds or whatever...

Also those are good times to try the whacky riskier stuff that could jeopardize a win when you are ahead.

Agreed Stelar7, in the games I have played of this one, I find I am enjoying just playing the game.. win or lose, and I don't care who I lose to. While teaching some kids a few days ago, lost all night, but I had a blast and got to do some fun moves and some smack talk in the process.

Losing sucks, just to put that out there, but I go into this game with a different attitude these days. I try to, also, take away new ideas and strategies when I lose, trying to figure where I went afoul. I also try to figure how I could better my build on the next game as well. add this, use this upgrade.. maybe no upgrades, just more ships... I have stayed away from swarm builds as I just don't want that many ships to have to 'dial in' for the turn, but I'm gonna see how 4 squints work using Lorrir and Cowall, and 2 sabers.. should be fun. There in lies the best reason to play..

At some point you'll manage a "Checkmate" with just "Pawns" then the tables will be turned. (I've managed it once and that was because my opponent was over confident)

But like I mentioned It would be a great Morale Victory for you and a Demoralizing Defeat for them.

Dice are dice and there is a little bit of luck involved, but it evens out in the end. Today I one shotted an interceptor with an awing at range 1 and then rolled 3 blanks against a fire spray.

Sometimes the dice beat me, but its usually bad maneuvering. I've realized how important it is to perform actions to tame the dice. My recent VASSAL tournament losses were due to bumping friendly ships too often.

Marc,

I have been exactly where you are in my first tournament. I played regularly with my friends and I'm a regular here on the forums so I built a good squad and went to my first tournament (I wrote up a battle report on it).

My squad was Krassis with HLC, Bounty Hunter with Gunner, and Backstabber (before wave 3 was out). 4-5 other players also had either dual firespray builds or firespray with multi ties so I thought I stood a good chance of placing well.

In short, I lost my first game to my own bad maneuvering, the second to hot dice, and the third was my bad maneuvering as well. I came in dead last with no wins.

I did get some good advice and that was to only do a maneuver I was sure would work. I was too eager to chance it on maneuvering and so I would take a 2 turn instead of a 3 turn and then land on a rock and loose my shot.

Dice was a factor once but it taught me that dice mitigation is part of the game. I will never try to go with a straight up roll with no modifiers as that would leave me at the mercy of the dice. Try to get a TL and/or a Focus for your shots and you'll put out more damage. This game favours attack over defence so I either swarm a list or I tank a list, and make sure I have options on dice mitigation. I also focus fire where I need to focus fire on my opponents ship.

This game have many strategic elements and dice are just one of those elements you have to factor in when squad building.

Maneuvering and anticipating your opponents maneuvers are where you'll win more games. Dice don't get rolled unless you are in a firing arc.

First tournaments report link:

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/89995-gatineauottawa-tournament-report/

Second tournament report link:

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/92608-multizone-escalation-tournament-report/

Maneuvering and anticipating your opponents maneuvers are where you'll win more games. Dice don't get rolled unless you are in a firing arc.

Exactly!

If you stay behind the enemies and keep pointing your cannons towards them, you will eventually win.

(dice might make it take longer)

Yes, I know that some ships can fire in wierd directions.

Do this experiment:

Make a game that is a trench-run with either the falcon or firespray in the front, and any combination of thips behind them.

All going in a straight line.

Who will win?

Dice are a huge factor when playing rebels, especially if you have a YT-1300 in the squad which has to one shot things to be viable. And Wedge too cannot afford to miss since X-wings simply aren't agile enough to avoid hits from 2-3 TIEs.

Also, missiles and torpedoes are entirely luck-based, which seems wholly inappropriate for their exorbant cost.

They aren't any more luck based than anything else, and all have secondary effects that make them more likely to hit, hit harder, or do something else fancy.

X-wings are agile enough to hold their ground with tie fighters, they both match their enemies defense die and the X-wing can take more hits. If an x-wing doesn't win against 2 ties it will almost always come down to maneuverability, not stats.

And while a defense die is objectively weaker than an attack die, tanking up with focus or evade is a lot more effective than some people seem to think. I've had horton focus dodge arrogant tie pilots and pick them apart more than once.

Blaming losses on dice is a bit unsportsmanlike, robbing them of credit for their skill and tactics in favor of saving face yourself. Yes, the dice occasionally roll so sour that even well-formulated strategy (which can compensate for bad dice) can't save you. But let your opponent have a clear victory every once in a while too.

Couple of points - one, if u don't like how random this game is never play warhammer or other such games! The effect your decisions have on odds are more dramatic here than most.

Also, kids roll brilliantly... The dice gods love kids. I once played a game of LUDO with my lad and he finished without mine rolling a single 6 to get started, no 6 in 38 rolls!

I played my lad today and he smashed me, he had Luke an R2 and I had Mauler and nightbeast, he hammered me the little...

I'm not looking forward to him getting the models for his list. He wants bounty hunters to be able to p play on both sides due to their moral ambiguity which means I have to face 2 firesprays and Luke!

Chin up mate, I find trying to hard to force a win after a string of bad losses is the last thing u should do. My advice is play to your personal style, now is the time to ignore the internet!

Slightly off topic but seven queens? Hubris kills faster than just about anything.

Back on topic, losing used to be really frustrating for me. Now when getting hosed I try to learn as much as I can and also set some smaller goals, I may go down but if I can just get one ship, or last three rounds or whatever...

Also those are good times to try the whacky riskier stuff that could jeopardize a win when you are ahead.

My Chess comment was slightly off topic but it is there to illustrate that even a "loss" can be very educational. To explain the odd situation a little better it was against a player I routinely beat but in an off day I got down to my K&Q vs. his K,Q, and army of Pawns. After ending my hopes of winning he wanted to "rub it in" by Queening all of his Pawns. I played along knowing what he was doing so that I was safe when he promoted the last Pawn but with no where to go the game ended in a stalemate/draw.

If you have a win make sure you take it and be happy with it. Things can turn around when you least expect it.

I should add a few more things to the discussion. First is that I was in position to fire for all my ships probably 90% of the time all three games. Second I did have a target lock or focus for most attacks as well.

So my point is in two of the three games for sure, one is a little questionable. I had myself in a position to do good but the dice let me down. I think my evade dice averaged out, and possibly my opponent's attack die. My opponent's evade dice were a little above average but its my attack dice that were the real killers.

I think my biggest fail was in the first game. I had jonus shoot an assault missle at biggs. I had ptl to assist me with a focus. So 4 dice vs 2 and I have a focus. He had luke and wedge at range one of biggs so it looks ill be doing some good combined damage. So what do we roll? I roll 2 hits and 2 blanks...focus is worthless. He rolls 2 evades. I never recovered from that.

the unpredictability of dice are the primary reason why missiles (and torpedoes) are questionable investments. Its a one shot deal. risky to put ur eggs into one basket.

its another reason why howlrunner is so good. statistically that reroll every attack is going to come good for you, i mean have u ever played a game with howlrunner when u missed EVERY reroll?

Reminds of a battle report between an 8 ship TIE swarm and 4 Assault missile equipped A-Wing. In a couple different tries the Swarm COMPLETELY destroyed the A-Wings and those Assault Missiles never lived up to their desired effect. Sure some were fired at a Fighter in the massive swarm but if it misses that's five points gone with nothing to show for it.

The only way I'd feel good about using Missiles against TIEs if if they have Jonus backing them up and they also have a focus to make sure they hit. The dice gods can still hate on you but at least if you roll four dice, can reroll two of them, and can turn eyeballs into hits, you should be able to land on hit on a ship rolling three defense dice.

I was looking forward to my first game in a few months, having rebuilt my fleet after it got stolen. Played a 100-point game against a long-time friend of mine. We were both just goofing around, I was Imperials.

Soontir Fel

- Daredevil

"Mauler" Mithel

- Elusiveness

"Winged Gundark"

Scimitar Squadron Pilot

- Cluster Missiles

- Proximity Mines

Academy Pilot

Han Solo

- Expose

- Luke Skywalker

- Chewbacca

- Millennium Falcon

Jan Ors

- Ion Cannon Turret

- Engine Upgrade

I had the worst luck I have ever seen. Han Solo avoided my Scimitar's firing arc for three turns after I acquired a target lock, and when I finally got to fire, I rolled not one single hit between both attacks. I forfeited with 4 hull points remaining between "Winged Gundark" and the Scimitar, having not inflicted a single damage card on either ship. The kind of battle that's so bad its hilarious. We were laughing the whole time.