Do you allow Charm to work on a player? Coercion, Deception, Negotiation all have tangible results. Being gregarious and susceptable to Charm sounds more like role-playing to me.

Absolutely, but the description of Nobody's Fool says it's possible. I usually work Chram checks to deal 2 strain per uncanceled Success to players who ignore the desires of whoever they've been Charmed by, but in some situations I might also lift the rules for fear. For instance, say you're negotiating with a Black Sun crime lord, and a Twi'lek dancer working for him keeps telling you to just agree to the deal so you and she can get some private time. Assuming she's serious, the player might get Charmed and thus either take strain or perhaps suffer a Setback die or other penalties to checks with the crime lord.

Zeltron

Brawn 2

Agility 2

Intellect 2

Cunning 2

Willpower 1

Presence 3

• Wound Threshold: 10 + Brawn
• Strain Threshold: 10 + Strain
• Starting Experience: 90 XP
• Empathy: Zeltrons may upgrade the difficulty of an Influence check made against them once. The target must be within short range and be susceptible to mind-altering abilities.
• Pheromones: Zeltrons gain an extra advantage when making Charm, Deception or Negotiation checks. The target must be within short range and not be immune to toxins and poisons.

Influence... as in the Force power?

Influence... as in the Force power?

Hmmm, may have to clarify that. Under the Social Skill Interactions sidebar on page 113 it refers to them as Influence checks. Maybe change it to Social Skill checks? Although the Influence Power refers to its checks as Influence Power checks, so there is a difference.

Same with Strain Threshold; Zeltron's are a bit flighty (Willpower 1 covers that), but they aren't that much quicker to fold under mental pressure than other species.

Canon base WT/ST seems to be based to some extent on the race's base Brawn/Willpower, and after that related to the race's fluff. I haven't seen any canon race with Brawn 3 and a low base WT - quite the opposite, in fact. Same with low base ST and low starting willpower, for example Wookiees. Part of that I think is a derived algorithm from having lower base Willpower, and part from the fluff of being relatively easy to influence or trick (mostly thinking the trap scene from RotJ here).

Keep in mind it's a free Advantage for 4 different skills, which by your forumla should be another 15 points, plus another 5 since Empathy works for 4 different skills as well. You also missed the +1 skill rank for charm which is another +10, putting my Zeltron at around 115. Considering they have Presence 3, Charm 1, and ability to easily upgrade Charm, Deception and Negotiation/Streetwise whilst generating a free advantage with all of those skills, I don't mind their overall "cost" being lower. They hav a ton of synergy, which is the whole concern with designing them.

I completely disagree that generating Advantage on 4 different skills winds up valuing that ability as 4 times higher. Also I see the "must be in the actual presence of the Zeltron" to be a significant setback to their pheromone- and empathy-based stuff.

Think I did miss the free Charm rank, probably because I was pretty tired at that time.

Keep in mind it's a free Advantage for 4 different skills, which by your forumla should be another 15 points, plus another 5 since Empathy works for 4 different skills as well. You also missed the +1 skill rank for charm which is another +10, putting my Zeltron at around 115. Considering they have Presence 3, Charm 1, and ability to easily upgrade Charm, Deception and Negotiation/Streetwise whilst generating a free advantage with all of those skills, I don't mind their overall "cost" being lower. They hav a ton of synergy, which is the whole concern with designing them.

I completely disagree that generating Advantage on 4 different skills winds up valuing that ability as 4 times higher. Also I see the "must be in the actual presence of the Zeltron" to be a significant setback to their pheromone- and empathy-based stuff.

Think I did miss the free Charm rank, probably because I was pretty tired at that time.

Fair enough, but how is generating Advantage on one skill worth 5 "phantom" points, but generating Advantage on four skills NOT worth 20 phantom points? Also, while being in the physical presence of a Zeltron is definitely a setback for their racial powers, I wouldn't necessarily call it "significant".

Most social checks are made against living beings in their presence. Thus, I'd rather err on the side of caution and ignore that this is a setback at all, especially since there's no way of doing Zeltrons justice without making them social beasthouses. (Empathy + Pheromones = social beasthouse in any game system and in real life.)

Good call on the Charm rank. I was wondering about that.

Eh, seems like a lot of work to me. Take a human, paint them red, give them a blue die for charm and negotiation rolls and call it a day.

Eh, seems like a lot of work to me. Take a human, paint them red, give them a blue die for charm and negotiation rolls and call it a day.

I like this the best. The rest of the empathic nature can be roleplayed as flavor.

Eh, seems like a lot of work to me. Take a human, paint them red, give them a blue die for charm and negotiation rolls and call it a day.

But FFG are going to the trouble of statting out not just near-humans, but human cultural groups like the Corellians.

Chiss are really just divergent blue humans but they are treated as a separate species here.

I appreciate simplicity myself, but I'm also willing to put in some work to stat out one of my favorite species. Empathy as flavor simply doesn't make sense to me, especially since there's a Force power and a Force talent related to it.

I agree that simple works well in EoE, but the mechanics should still support the concept.

However, I must admit I'm not totally sold on Zeltrons. There's that name for a start, ugh!

We have an NPC who the characters have had to bail out of some dodgy situations at times. Here's what I wrote about the race:

(GM notes - I've never really been completely happy with the Zeltron race. The name smacks more of Star Trek than Star Wars, and their position as the 'hot sexy women race' seems a tad contrived. I mean, twi'leks sort of got that reputation by working at it - characters like Oola, Mission Vao, Lyn Me and Aayla Secura, who were lissom and attractive, earned their race the reputation. And later sci-fi series like Mass Effect - whose Asari are a obvious homage to twi'leks - built on this organically.

Whereas Zeltrons were so obviously designed from the start to be the 'sexy' race, all of them being openly gorgeous and wearing next to nothing. (The fact they first appear in the 'Nu Metal' Legacy era doesn't help, where even Luke Skywalker's descendant Cade looks like fricking Fred Durst on a crash diet...)

I did like the fact they have pheromones, able to loosen the inhibitions of others without them realising it. And at the end of the day, it wasn't like I'm NOT going to include hot purple women, however contrived, is it? )

Maelora, a couple things about zeltrons, j believe their first appearance was the old marvel comic, and secondly, zeltrons are not an all female race. There can be flirtatious half clad zeltron men if you want.

Maelora, a couple things about zeltrons, j believe their first appearance was the old marvel comic, and secondly, zeltrons are not an all female race. There can be flirtatious half clad zeltron men if you want.

That's good, I like men too

But yes, I knew there were guys, but they do seem to have been deliberately designed as the 'sexy' race.

I didn't know where they originated from, so thanks for that. Shame about the Trekkie name really.

Eh, seems like a lot of work to me. Take a human, paint them red, give them a blue die for charm and negotiation rolls and call it a day.

But FFG are going to the trouble of statting out not just near-humans, but human cultural groups like the Corellians.

Yeah, that is a decision I really question tbh. Very easily leads to lots of bloat and cultural pigeonholing.

But FFG are going to the trouble of statting out not just near-humans, but human cultural groups like the Corellians.

Yeah, that is a decision I really question tbh. Very easily leads to lots of bloat and cultural pigeonholing.

Yes, I'd rather not see a whole planet of people cosplaying Han Solo.

My group gave them all 2s, 110xp , 1 level of either Charm or Deceit and a once per session ability to reroll Charm or Deceit.

The name "Zeltron" smacks of early, 1950s-era sci-fi to me, which is one of the reasons I like it. (It also doesn't hurt that I'm a die-hard Star Trek fan as well.) I also enjoy the fact that they originated in the old Marvel comics, which were absolutely corny and often pretty terrible. That said, as a writer who's worked with publishers like DC Comics, I am FIRMLY of the belief that any idea can be salvaged with the right mindset and inspiration.

A good example of this is the "resurrection" of Darth Maul. The writers of the Clone Wars series didn't want to do it, but Lucas ordered them to anyway, and the results were brilliant because said writers sat down, spelled out what they didn't like about the idea, and deciphered how to work around those hurdles. I view Zeltrons the same way; their concept seems silly at a glance, but there's no reason why a race of empathic hedonists with pheromone powers can't be cool.

In one of my Saga Edition games, the primary villain was Zeltron Sith Lord who was both an extreme sadist and an extreme masochist by necessity (since Zeltrons can feel the negative emotions they inflict). Because he was a Zeltron I never felt afraid to play up his personality at the loudest possible volume, which my players enjoyed immensely. In time he was like a Sith version of the Joker, right down to an unhealthy, "romantic" obsession with the PCs. Everyone had a good time.

My idea this time is to play a Zeltron Politico/Scoundrel; a former Imperial senator who's been on the run since his affair with a Moff was discovered. He's got a quick tongue and can usually talk his way out of (or into) anything, but he's also constantly falling in love like Pepe Le Pew and blowing his money on lavish parties he throws for the new friends he meets everywhere.

Basically, if I actually DO get a chance to play for once, I want to show my group that roleplaying a fun character can be an end unto itself, and I think a Zeltron is a good way to do that.

The name "Zeltron" smacks of early, 1950s-era sci-fi to me, which is one of the reasons I like it.

And the reason I don't think it really feels like 'Star Wars' to me. I actually like that 'hammerheads' became 'ithorians' and 'walrus men' were aqualish. I love pulp science-fantasy but that isn't SW for me.

We'll have to agree to disagree there

But everything else you posted, yeah, totally agree. The concept is sound, I just think another race could fill that role.

But hey; hot purple people. I like 'em anyway.

I wasn't completely sold on Darth Maul's resurrection until I talked to a Iranian friend of mine whose brother died in a rocket attack on Palestine a few years ago. His brother was a full-fledged member a terrorist cell, and most of this guy's family stopped speaking of him because they were so ashamed. My friend is ashamed in his own way as well, but he still remembers his brother as a person , not as a monster.

After having a long conversation with him about his brother, he asked if I liked Star Wars, and proceeded to tell me that he watched the episode where Savage Opress dies protecting his brother every day for a couple of weeks after he saw it. He said he didn't care if it made him a bad person, but like Savage he gladly would have died for his "wicked" brother as well. (Not surprisingly, this guy has strong feelings for Thor and Loki too.)

After that I rewatched the Maul episodes and saw that they really did put a whole lot of heart into them, all leading up to this one moment where they managed to humanize a character who cuts children in half. Not bad for a thinly veiled ploy to sell action figures and finalize the deal with Disney, I have to admit. Needless to say, I look forward to Rebels so we can finally see what that animation team can pull off without crazy-boy Lucas breathing down their necks.

well, lets face it, for better or for worse, Zeltrons are supposed to be the hot smexy race. i was okay with the zeltrons having a presence of 3, but since sons of fortune has come out, and drall start out with an intellect of 4, i've been thinking that zeltrons should start out with a presence of 4 as well. just for what it's worth.

I'm surprised we haven't seen these guys yet. The Colonist book might have been the ideal place to put them (instead of three more circus freak species).

Not sure where else they could go, really; they don't seem suited to AoR or F&D, and they hardly seem iconic for Technicians or Bounty Hunters.

I'm surprised we haven't seen these guys yet. The Colonist book might have been the ideal place to put them (instead of three more circus freak species).

Not sure where else they could go, really; they don't seem suited to AoR or F&D, and they hardly seem iconic for Technicians or Bounty Hunters.

We might have a sector sourcebook similar to Suns of Fortune. Zeltros would be fun to have the PCs visit.

My namesake character, Elias Windrider, was a jedi consular from an RCR game. There was a female zeltron jedi guardian NPC who was constantly trying to get my character into her pants (even stole his clothes while Elias was taking a shower). It was a NSFW game.

I'm surprised we haven't seen these guys yet. The Colonist book might have been the ideal place to put them (instead of three more circus freak species).

Not sure where else they could go, really; they don't seem suited to AoR or F&D, and they hardly seem iconic for Technicians or Bounty Hunters.

Personally, I'm leaning towards them showing up in a future Force and Destiny sourcebook at this rate (possibly Consular). Based on what we've seen thus far, AoR seems to get the "ugly" species more often than not; Chadra-Fan might be deemed cute by some, but they're essentially bipedal midgets with giant bat heads. Meanwhile, FaD gets the Mirialans, Nautolans, and Zabrak, which generally fall into the "attractive" or "leading role" species, so they seem (thus far) to be slotted to get the "pretties."