Mono Lore Grima will be awesome but Grima with Spirit should also work well. The Galadhrim's Greeting for 2 is not bad at all (net threat reduction of 5).

I think Grima is good, but it's important to remember that "Whenever Doomed cards are played, EACH player must raise his threat by the value of “X.”" (emphasis added). So, in solo play, you have no one to piss off. Raising the threat of all your buddies? That could get ugly...especially if they have no threat reduction.

Combine these two posts for an interesting point. Raven's post is only true for 1-player games. In a 4-player game, you cut Galadhrim's Greeting's power in half (lower everyone by 2 after raising everyone by 1) or worse (if you choose to lower 1 player's threat by 6, for a net lowering of 2 threat). Might as well pay the full price of 3 resources for 6-8 threat loss in a 4-player game.

Well once again FFG has made a fool out of me after I so adamantly projected Haldir has the other hero haha.

What a fascinating and intriguing character and oh so fitting ability they picked though! So very excited for this character, I think he'll see play in a variety of different decks...just oozing with potential.

I find it interesting that after 10 spoiled cards, the 3 Tactics card don't interact with the "Doomed" keyword at all, whereas every one of the other 7 cards either dooms you or gains from being doomed.

Why doesn't Tactics use the doomed "tactics" (horrible pun intended). And where are the Spirit cards?

It's also kinda weird that they made a Grima hero since he seems to be also an objective ally in the Fight at the Fords quest.

Having heroes that are also objective allies seems to be a theme lately. They did the same thing with Faramir in the Against the Shadow cycle. As for why Tactics doesn't take advantage of doomed effects, my guess is because the starting threat of its heroes is so high (Merry excepted) and Tactics has no means of threat reduction. Every other sphere has some strategy for threat mitigation (Sneak + Gandalf, Loragorn, etc.) so a heavy Tactics deck is going to be a huge risk in multiplayer. All of the cleverness with Grima and doomed events will cause combat decks some real problems. It goes without saying that The Galadhrim's Greeting and/or Core Set Gandalf will be making an appearance in a lot of these new decks.

I don't buy that. Just because Tactics doesn't have a reliable means of threat reduction, doesn't mean squat. Most decks are multi-sphere, so there's no reason it can't be in decks with threat reduction. I'm willing to bet that there is one more tactics card that hasn't been revealed - an event - that has the doomed keyword.

The solo player in me really likes these cards but the multiplayer side says this might be too risky.

From a multiplayer aspect, we need to address how to control your partner(s) threat. Each sphere (except Tactics) has some kind of threat reduction like danpoage mentioned above. I think the card Song of Earendil, spirit Attachment that lets you raise your threat so another player can reduce their threat by 1, is a great start to making the use of these new Doomed players cards a really possibility in a 3 or 4 player game.

Deck building become a little more tighter with the inclusion of the doomed cards. Gandalf becomes a must have in almost every deck. The wandering tooks paired with the Song of Earendil can be an effective way to help the Tactics player keep his threat down if they don't want to splash into spirit. I also agree that the Lore player has to use Loragorn, Spirit Glorfindel and Grima to effectively use the doom cards in a 3 or 4 player game.

I'm not very excited about this hero. Though I'm happy to see a Lore Rohan hero at last, the doomed mechanic is not very appealing to me since I play mainly multiplayer games. Is it me or the doomed keyword is not a very thrilling mechanic for multiplayer games? The fact that each player must pay for the use of an ability played by one is meh imo...

If only Elfhelm worked against player card effects as well. Then it would pose little to no problems for two player games, but alas. It doesn't, however, exclude a possibility of such a character appearing in game.

I'm not very excited about this hero. Though I'm happy to see a Lore Rohan hero at last, the doomed mechanic is not very appealing to me since I play mainly multiplayer games. Is it me or the doomed keyword is not a very thrilling mechanic for multiplayer games? The fact that each player must pay for the use of an ability played by one is meh imo...

Have you seen those doomed cards? All players draw 2 cards, all players add 1 resource to each of their heroes resource pools... Threat is small price to pay.

As I said on the VoI topic, this a 100% surprise for me, but a pleasing one.

Gríma as a hero can open new strategies to Master of Lore deckbuilding and more importantly, can overcome the problem that could have Lore with things like Dunlending card draw hate, having the opportunity to play multiple cards with 0-1 cost.

And more important for me, it's theme at its finest. With the perils of dark knowledge (doomed X) and with what would become of him if he didn't take the path of darkness.

The thing about all this Doomed X keyword (the same goes to Isengard trait) is: if that's a mechanic (and a trait) that we'll be seeing on the new cycle, that'd be helpful to enhance the variety of new decks. But if it's only in VoI...

Grima + Song of Earendil + Loragorn = nothing more to say about doomed cards on multiplayer games.

I loved VOI and expect to pick a copy as soon as possible, cant wait for the thematic Isengard on the quests.

No one mention that his stats (2,1,2,3) does not add up to his threat cost (9)? Is his "limit once per round" ability so good to warrant this penalty?

No one mention that his stats (2,1,2,3) does not add up to his threat cost (9)? Is his "limit once per round" ability so good to warrant this penalty?

It's like having 4 heroes resource-vise. And one of them has like every resource icon. There is also a key neutral card which grants resource to its owner once per turn when doomed keyword triggers.

I'm not very excited about this hero. Though I'm happy to see a Lore Rohan hero at last, the doomed mechanic is not very appealing to me since I play mainly multiplayer games. Is it me or the doomed keyword is not a very thrilling mechanic for multiplayer games? The fact that each player must pay for the use of an ability played by one is meh imo...

Have you seen those doomed cards? All players draw 2 cards, all players add 1 resource to each of their heroes resource pools... Threat is small price to pay.

I have to agree that regarding these cards, since the effect gives a benefit to every player in the game, it scales pretty well and the doomed mechanic is interesting.

In the case of Grima however, the more players there is in the game, the less interesting his ability become I think, unless the other players also build around the doomed keyword. I will probably play him regardless since I really want to play a Rohan spirit - lore deck.

isengard looks like a serious faction, unexpected for me. I like the connection between Isengard and Doomed mechanic.

Grima- what a surprise. His threat cost is higher than total stats and I understand it. What a combo with Keys of Orthanc and also Orthanc guard just became awesome.

I also expect card that allows you to play Doomed events from any sphere (grima would be allowed to play ANY event then).

And as always, sorry for my poor English.

Oh yeah. I didn't even think about Keys of Orthanc. Great combo. I'm very excited about this expansion. I can't wait to make a Theoden/Hama/Eomer deck!

Keys of Orthanc with Grima is insane! And really thematic as well

What do you think about that Orthanc Messenger? I quite like that he is lore, (lore looks like main sphere for Isengard), but I think he is only good in massive Doomed deck or with Grima. If you use Doomed every turn, he is nice and if... No you cant play 2 doomed cards every turn.

But the best thing about him is, that you can boost his Willpower by 2 when you know if you need it.

Sorry for my bad English.

And Orthanc Messenger is awesome with more copies on the table.

I am starting to really like this new faction and mechanic

I like the mechanics of our new "hero" and I'm certainly going to try a Theodred-Grima secrecy deck, but...

I already had a hard time to accept that we got an evil objective ally which really makes replaying every scenario including Alcaron as an ally an uncomfortable task to me. And now I shall have a hero that is going to mindrape the Rohan king? And I am kind of helping him? :o

Heh heh, no mean streak in you, Mr. Leptokurt? Maybe Grima helps the heroes for his own reasons, and you can satisfy your clandestine desire to scheme and rub your hands together while others are not looking...

I love Grima as a hero, pretty excited about this. I play tactics so often, though, that I do see it being a bit of a problem. But Loragorn + Desperate Alliance is looking all the more attractive now for a Spirit/Lore deck with Grima and Aragorn teamed with a tactics deck. I also like that Grima's ability is not limited to Lore cards.

I like the mechanics of our new "hero" and I'm certainly going to try a Theodred-Grima secrecy deck, but...

I already had a hard time to accept that we got an evil objective ally which really makes replaying every scenario including Alcaron as an ally an uncomfortable task to me. And now I shall have a hero that is going to mindrape the Rohan king? And I am kind of helping him? :o

Grima is not "bad" by himself. He is corrupted by Saruman. And he wasn't like that all the time. Like designer said, he didn't got promoted to his position by giving the bad advice. He just lacked willpower to resist. He was just a human caught in a bad circumstances, and would it be otherwise - he would prove extremely helpful to Rohan and stuff.

Keys of Orthanc with Grima is insane! And really thematic as well

Keys of orthanic has to be a x3 when running Grima. 2 resources for 1 threat is crazy good. I mean, just think of a tri sphere deck with Grima, and being able to play a 3 cost card each turn with one of your heroes (1 from that turn's resource phase, essentially 1 from Grima's ability, and 1 from keys to whomever the attached hero is). The deck possibilities are so crazy it'll be interesting to see what the most effective build with him will be

Grima + Campfire Tales = Deep Knowledge at -1 to both amount of threat gained and number of cards drawn. Might bring Campfire Tales out of more binders.