Anyone else start playing X-wing to flee GW's crazy prices and policies?

X-wing feels just as tactical to me and getting in two games of X-wing to one game of Warhammer is also a plus. Not to mention having two complete sides of X-wing is cheaper than 1/3 of a Warhammer army.

Lol.

Does Games Workshop ask you to upgrade every single Space Marine with a Plasmagun with a "Plasmagun-upgrade-card" that you can only buy in the "Imperial Guard Elite Box"? ... because bringing just one copy of the rules for a piece of equipment you use several times in your list isn't good enough?

I love X-Wing and all... but if you think GW's approach to fleecing people for the rules is crazy, prepare to be shell-shocked.

I played 40k for a few years but have fallen out of it. I didn't have time to do all of the modeling and painting. I think X-Wing is a good alternative for me.

I left that craptastic joke back in 2000, and sold all of my stuff.

X-WING got me back into miniatures, and now I am also getting back into Star Blazers, with X-Wing Rules.

I had about $9,000 worth of miniatures back in the day. $3,900 of it was GW models.

Lol.

Does Games Workshop ask you to upgrade every single Space Marine with a Plasmagun with a "Plasmagun-upgrade-card" that you can only buy in the "Imperial Guard Elite Box"? ... because bringing just one copy of the rules for a piece of equipment you use several times in your list isn't good enough?

I love X-Wing and all... but if you think GW's approach to fleecing people for the rules is crazy, prepare to be shell-shocked.

No what they do is change your entire army list every three to five years, make your models a relic every two to three years, then raise prices on everything every six months.

**** GW...

Lol.

Does Games Workshop ask you to upgrade every single Space Marine with a Plasmagun with a "Plasmagun-upgrade-card" that you can only buy in the "Imperial Guard Elite Box"? ... because bringing just one copy of the rules for a piece of equipment you use several times in your list isn't good enough?

I love X-Wing and all... but if you think GW's approach to fleecing people for the rules is crazy, prepare to be shell-shocked.

I think its a matter of relativity. I was kinda driven away from GW because of their prices and business practices (still play but relatively infrequently) to other games. The only time your forced to buy a model for a card in X-Wing is if you really want to play in tournaments. Even in the worst case scenario, 4 B-Wings with Advanced Sensors, you pay about $180 plus whatever you pay for the starter set. To build a Warhammer army you are almost forced to pay $600 minimum not including the rulebook and supplies. Even the one click deals they had around Christmas for whole armies started around a $1000.

Do I like the practice of making cards hard to get? No. Do I think its that big of a deal, especially compared to other companies and prices? Definitely not. But people have to stand by their principles so I understand where you are coming from.

To their credit, FFG is apparently putting two Push The Limit cards in Imperial Aces. On the other hand, Lambda is the only box with Advanced Sensors...

/looking at you, Wave 4

Im a GW refugee! I love this game! I dont care about having to get multiple sets to get certain cards, because I want to get multiples of the models. And I hate GW, but 40k will always be my first love.....

The prices of GW stuff has kept me from ever getting into that game. I just never made the kind of money I could throw at it. Now days, with no wife to think about (lol), I have found a couple miniature games I can go nuts on, this one we all sem to love, and Wings of Glory (was War) I do repaints when I can and have a notion and both games are frought with cool models and extras..

No what they do is change your entire army list every three to five years, make your models a relic every two to three years, then raise prices on everything every six months.

**** GW...

Well, let's hope FFG isn't going to go "second editition" after 3 or 4 years. Hard to tell at this point, but it seems an obvious "monetization strategy", as they are already getting into ever more exotic ship with a game that is barely 15-months old.

I think its a matter of relativity. I was kinda driven away from GW because of their prices and business practices (still play but relatively infrequently) to other games. The only time your forced to buy a model for a card in X-Wing is if you really want to play in tournaments. Even in the worst case scenario, 4 B-Wings with Advanced Sensors, you pay about $180 plus whatever you pay for the starter set. To build a Warhammer army you are almost forced to pay $600 minimum not including the rulebook and supplies. Even the one click deals they had around Christmas for whole armies started around a $1000.

Well, if it is relative, you should compare like with like, no?

Is Warhammer 40K cheap if you and your friends agree to only play with 2 factions, and only 5 or 6 different models from each factions, and only 3 to maybe 8-10 miniatures on the table per game? It certainly is.

What would X-Wing cost if you field a hundred models per side? A pretty hefty sum!

X-Wing puts the emphasis on the individual models, Games Workshop more on quantity and "taking-20-models-at-a-time-from-the-table". But "miniature-for-miniature", "rules-page-for-rules-page", X-Wing is a lot more expensive.

To compare the "small" X-Wing games with the "large" 40K (or Fantasy) games feels a bit unfair. Might as well say... look at coin-tossing. A dime for a playing piece two player can use...beat that for "value-for-a-game"!!! Those are not fair comparison really, IMO.

I love X-Wing, and it's certainly "worth it" for me. But it's clearly in a price-class or two above GW all things considered.

I'm also a refugee.... it is hard for those like me who are really slow painters.... I love 40k, still.... but buying all the stuff to have a decent army to play 1750pts it is reallly hard, and I'm just from 4 Ed and only have an Ork army.

I prefer X-wing, because I'm a fan of Star Wars, and because this game is so fun, but I will still from time to time scream WAAAGH!

Some things I like about X-Wing:

FFG fights power creep. Wave 1: still in print (hard to find at times, but constantly in production) and still a major focus in most tourney lists. The points also help with this, new stuff is point costed appropriately to make it balanced. Also new stuff is on the way (rebel transport, imperial aces) that provide older models new life (upgrades and new pilots that function with previous. purchases).

While I'm a bit crazy with what I buy, you can field a tourney grade list for (full retail costs) $40 + $15 + $15 for 3 X-Wings. The list size is very small, no monster armies required. I like having a bit much of everything. And all the trimmings. I'm still significantly less invested into it than the average WH40k player, and I'm an outlier in the X-Wing world.

No paint and toolset required. Sure you can customize, but it's not required in any way. The ships look great out of the box.

I think FFG has some of the most player friendly history of all the companies. I get the card scarcity is annoying, I think they do to. They included two stealth devices in the Slave 1 for a reason. I think advanced sensors caught them off guard a bit. I would hope to see them on something else too.

Is Warhammer 40K cheap if you and your friends agree to only play with 2 factions, and only 5 or 6 different models from each factions, and only 3 to maybe 8-10 miniatures on the table per game?

Yeah but you can't legally play that way... Legally being according to the rules they've published. So that's a pretty much nonsense statement. GW requires that you spend $400 or so just to get into the game. FFG's price point is about 1/10th of that.

When you look at the cost per list, X-Wing is massively cheaper then anything GW puts out. They also have their rules for free, something you have to pay $50-75 for with 40k, not to mention the $30-50 codex you need.

I don't agree with some of what FFG does, like the Advanced Sensor in the Shuttle, but it's still a lot better then they way GW puts most of the heavy weapons for Space Marines in the Devastator pack, which means if you want to field what the codex offers, you have to effectively pay $50 per squad.

Bottom line, is that X-Wing gives you nearly every ship produced so far for both factions, at about the same price as a single 1750 point 40k army. Not really sure how anyone can reasonably say that FFG is anywhere near as bad as GW when you consider that.

The new hard back Codexes are up to $58, by the way. Basic rules with no miniatures: $74. Although, to be fair, you can pay $99 for the starter set with the small sized rule book.

John K its probably right in that its silly to compare the economics of a skirmish game to a full war game. That being said, does Warhammer provide 5x as much fun as X-wing? Probably not. In retrospect, it's a bit tedious playing Warhammer. So many models. So many dice. Perhaps I've just burnt out on it.

I enjoy the simple, tactical game play of X-wing. I even got my GF to try it a couple of times.

John K its probably right in that its silly to compare the economics of a skirmish game to a full war game.

I don't think so... Because you're comparing one game to another. GW could of done a skirmish style game something like a single SM squad vs say 10-20 Boyz... But instead they went with the Apoc route, which is a $75 book, $30 templates, and between $500-1000 worth of models for a single side.

More to the point however...

GW has been notorious for making changes over the years that quite clearly are aimed at getting people to spend more money on their stuff. Adding in new options or changing codes in such a way that your current army is pretty much worthless unless you spend another $150-300...

FFG on the other hand, did screw up with with the Advanced Sensors, but they're putting 2 PtL in the Imp Aces pack, and 2 Stealth Devices in the Firespray. So in their case it looks like they're at least trying to make things better.

Why would you not want to buy shuttles? Everyone seems to be complaining about it but I think they are great ships to have.

X-wing has the advantage of being e new game.

Ppl will still buy models just to get playing.

WH40K has been on the market since the 80ies and a large group of the fans already have armies.

So, how do you keep selling miniatures to a group of players that already have armies?

How do you make the guy with 500 space marines buy another squad?

1

For the veteranes, you make a new "special" squad. They only buy that one, som the price isnt that problematic

2

You aim for the kids. Their parents will pay for it.

Anyway.

X-wing is part miniature game and part card game, so it not that odd that you need to buy the cards.
(But I will not mind if you proxy something to try a stretegy)

The bonus of this is that you encourage players to get models from both sides.

This makes X-wing more of a game that you can play with a visitor or a friend that does not know the game.

...40k is a game you play with some nerds that are willing to pay up and take a bachelour programe in the rules (to get one (1) army)

I have played 40k and I have some armies, but it is less fun than before.

It is simply to much of playing the rules, not the game

BUT

Be carefull

40k started with a small scale that got the problem that ppl started fighting larger battles than the game was intended for.

This got messy, you simply cannot use so detailed rules on a large scale.

They solved this in 3 eddition by simplifying the rules more to make it work better on the large scale.

...probles is that the old rules keep coming back little by little in new rules edditions and every time they release a new codex.

This might be the case to xwing too....

Why would you not want to buy shuttles? Everyone seems to be complaining about it but I think they are great ships to have.

I own 2, but have slots in my foam trays for 3.... you're a bad influence.

X-wing has the advantage of being e new game.

Ppl will still buy models just to get playing.

WH40K has been on the market since the 80ies and a large group of the fans already have armies.

So, how do you keep selling miniatures to a group of players that already have armies?

How do you make the guy with 500 space marines buy another squad?

1

For the veteranes, you make a new "special" squad. They only buy that one, som the price isnt that problematic

2

You aim for the kids. Their parents will pay for it.

Anyway.

X-wing is part miniature game and part card game, so it not that odd that you need to buy the cards.

(But I will not mind if you proxy something to try a stretegy)

The bonus of this is that you encourage players to get models from both sides.

This makes X-wing more of a game that you can play with a visitor or a friend that does not know the game.

...40k is a game you play with some nerds that are willing to pay up and take a bachelour programe in the rules (to get one (1) army)

I have played 40k and I have some armies, but it is less fun than before.

It is simply to much of playing the rules, not the game

BUT

Be carefull

40k started with a small scale that got the problem that ppl started fighting larger battles than the game was intended for.

This got messy, you simply cannot use so detailed rules on a large scale.

They solved this in 3 eddition by simplifying the rules more to make it work better on the large scale.

...probles is that the old rules keep coming back little by little in new rules edditions and every time they release a new codex.

This might be the case to xwing too....

But with such a high buy-in price, how many new players do they get? For the record, I've never played WH, I grew up playing Battletech.... maybe I just gravitate toward skirmish-style games. Explains why I'm seriously eyeing Infinity

EDIT: Sorry about the doublepost. This was supposed to be edited in to the first post, and I can't find the delete post option.

No what they do is change your entire army list every three to five years, make your models a relic every two to three years, then raise prices on everything every six months.

**** GW...

Well, let's hope FFG isn't going to go "second editition" after 3 or 4 years. Hard to tell at this point, but it seems an obvious "monetization strategy", as they are already getting into ever more exotic ship with a game that is barely 15-months old.

I think they love it enough to not screw it up bud, but so did the GW guys back in the 80's...

FFG have been getting my dander up just a little bit, with their; here it is-no wait, here it comes-but wait, we are taking preorders now-no wait we need to put it back into development routine.

When you find a perfect company that makes what we love and want to buy at a nice price...let me (us) know!

I think they love it enough to not screw it up bud, but so did the GW guys back in the 80's...

I think GW is in a way a victim of it's own success... It grew to the point that it attracted people into the company that weren't gamers, and were only interested in the bottom line, which turned it into what it is now.

FFG has one advantage though, it's diversified enough that it doesn't need to milk any one game the same way GW does. I mean pretty much the only thing GW makes is Warhammer FB/40k stuff, and not much else.

FFG has X-Wing, the LCG's like Netrunner, Game of Thrones, Star Wars, ect... Plus all their board games.

But with such a high buy-in price, how many new players do they get? For the record, I've never played WH, I grew up playing Battletech.... maybe I just gravitate toward skirmish-style games. Explains why I'm seriously eyeing Infinity

They dont have to get many new players....they can live on the old ones

But with such a high buy-in price, how many new players do they get? For the record, I've never played WH, I grew up playing Battletech.... maybe I just gravitate toward skirmish-style games. Explains why I'm seriously eyeing Infinity

They dont have to get many new players....they can live on the old ones

Until they're dead, then what? I suppose players leaving their armies to friends and descendants could keep the game going, just sounds like a wierd business model

FFG have been getting my dander up just a little bit, with their; here it is-no wait, here it comes-but wait, we are taking preorders now-no wait we need to put it back into development routine.

WAIT... FFG make Game of Thrones... They have been taking notes for George R. R. Martin......

the Dragons are coming, yes they are... wait for the Dragons... and Zombies.. there will be Zombies... wait a bit.... they are coming.