[Thinks for a bit. Can't tell if JonanHex agrees with Union or not.]
Strain's a weird beast either way.
Species statistics and the Obligation mechanic back up the theory that it represents confidence/determination and mental forcus. That unarmed attacks still do Wound damage rather than Strain (if you're not a Doctor with the Pressure Points talent) also backs this up...
but then Stun weapons depleting Strain cuts the arguement off at the knees (they depress you into unconsciousness?).
[Thinks for a bit. Can't tell if JonanHex agrees with Union or not.]
Strain's a weird beast either way.
Species statistics and the Obligation mechanic back up the theory that it represents confidence/determination and mental forcus. That unarmed attacks still do Wound damage rather than Strain (if you're not a Doctor with the Pressure Points talent) also backs this up...
but then Stun weapons depleting Strain cuts the arguement off at the knees (they depress you into unconsciousness?).
Unarmed attacks, per page 211, can damage Wounds or Strain at the option of the attacker. This appears to apply to all Brawl weapons too (although I don't personally allow it with claws, such as those of the Trandoshan).
Unarmed attacks, per page 211, can damage Wounds or Strain at the option of the attacker.
This appears to apply to all Brawl weapons too (although I don't personally allow it with claws, such as those of the Trandoshan).
Poor Wookiees. Glass jaws the lot of 'em.
Unarmed attacks, per page 211, can damage Wounds or Strain at the option of the attacker.
This appears to apply to all Brawl weapons too (although I don't personally allow it with claws, such as those of the Trandoshan).
Poor Wookiees. Glass jaws the lot of 'em.
No kidding. Too bad Resilience can't be used with Hard Headed and the Improved version of the same.
Yeah, Resilience would make more sense to me, too.
[Thinks for a bit. Can't tell if JonanHex agrees with Union or not.]
Strain's a weird beast either way.
Species statistics and the Obligation mechanic back up the theory that it represents confidence/determination and mental forcus. That unarmed attacks still do Wound damage rather than Strain (if you're not a Doctor with the Pressure Points talent) also backs this up...
but then Stun weapons depleting Strain cuts the arguement off at the knees (they depress you into unconsciousness?).
The definition on page 216 is better: "Any effect that impairs the character, but does not inflict physical harm or wounds, is considered strain."
It gives an example of wandering in the desert and says environmental effects can accumulate strain. That makes sense, I think that is pretty much the intuitive use everyone thought for it immediately when we picked up the game and saw it had a wound and a strain value.
The problem is that you can recover from your dehydration and exhaustion from wandering in the desert by engaging in an intense sword fight! Dumb dumb dumb.
It makes sense you can recover strain quickly, it does not make sense, from the definition of what strain is, that you can recover it from doing activities that would normally exhaust you and cost strain.
Getting in an intense physical fight should be as exhausting as walking across the desert. Instead you're hoping you come across something to fight in the desert to get all your strain back that the desert cost you. They're better than an oasis! It's like the game was made for murder hobos who recharge on the blood of their enemies!
Recovering strain never should have been part of the combat system. Maybe a force power, or through drugs, medicine or gear, but you shouldn't be getting less tired by doing tiring things.
Edited by Union
Recovering strain never should have been part of the combat system. Maybe a force power, or through drugs, medicine or gear, but you shouldn't be getting less tired by doing tiring things.
I've long thought that stimpacks should restore Strain rather than Wounds, but oddly there's nothing like that available.
I don't think some kind of drug/food combo item for strain replenishment is all that far fetched. Some kind of power bar with electrolytes, carbs, anti anxiety meds and a little caffeine............chocolate peanut butter flavored of course.......
JonahHex, the ironic thing to me about your player's reaction to getting his arm severed is that it's a FANTASTIC story!
I was grinning as I read your description of the events, and I think that if it were me, I'd be thrilled to have had such a cool experience in a game.
I think sometimes when we play games we forget the nature of drama and just identify with our characters. But I don't really WANT my character to succeed at everything, what would be the point of that?
When we're watching the Star Wars movies, we WANT the characters to be in constant danger and barely catching a break but having incredible adventures in the process. The heroes fail CONSTANTLY in those movies! That's where the drama comes from.
Anyway, just wanted to say I feel your pain about the player's response to the critical injury.
I don't think some kind of drug/food combo item for strain replenishment is all that far fetched. Some kind of power bar with electrolytes, carbs, anti anxiety meds and a little caffeine............chocolate peanut butter flavored of course.......
Nah, something that includes 6 kinds of apples.
Good point about how wandering a desert an inflict strain that a cantina fist fight (more physical exertion) can heal, but there's an easy solution to that; tell your players they need water and rest to heal this strain. This seems like common sense to me, the sort of thing you might see written into a module.
Good point about how wandering a desert an inflict strain that a cantina fist fight (more physical exertion) can heal, but there's an easy solution to that; tell your players they need water and rest to heal this strain. This seems like common sense to me, the sort of thing you might see written into a module.
It is just as common sense to say you can't recover strain from a physically exhausting bar brawl by brawling more, and to recover it you need to sit down and rest for a bit. That is the entire point.
Good point about how wandering a desert an inflict strain that a cantina fist fight (more physical exertion) can heal, but there's an easy solution to that; tell your players they need water and rest to heal this strain. This seems like common sense to me, the sort of thing you might see written into a module.
It is just as common sense to say you can't recover strain from a physically exhausting bar brawl by brawling more, and to recover it you need to sit down and rest for a bit. That is the entire point.
If you have a droid with high Athletics, then intense physical actions will keep bleeding off Strain making it a perpetual motion machine! 
There's a bunch of really good, well-argued examples here why Advantages shouldn't be able to recover Strain suffered because of X.
There are a few reasons why maybe they should though:
All seem like ways of temporarily overcoming stress and tiredness, even some of the pretty harsh stuff (depending on how realistic you want your game* to be). As we're playing a self-identified narrative game even "I'm making a heroic come-back" may be enough.
*A game with blasters, FTL travel and space magic.
Good point about how wandering a desert an inflict strain that a cantina fist fight (more physical exertion) can heal, but there's an easy solution to that; tell your players they need water and rest to heal this strain. This seems like common sense to me, the sort of thing you might see written into a module.
It is just as common sense to say you can't recover strain from a physically exhausting bar brawl by brawling more, and to recover it you need to sit down and rest for a bit. That is the entire point.
Why so? It's all about framing a scene. Battles are largely battles of numbers, with lots of the action being abstracted until after the dice are rolled and the numbers accounted for. "Exhaustion" from a bar fight might easily be described as mental stress from concentrating on landing punches and avoiding hitting allies; thus, throwing a good punch or firing a straight shot could bolster one's confidence and recover that strain.
On the other side of the coin, if the GM wants to frame a scene wherein the players are tired from an extended trek out into a blasting desert or steaming jungle, he could simply state that the player's strain thresholds are lowered until they drink some water and get some rest. Doing the same thing during a battle might make sense if the players haven't slept in a long time or if they're tired from a long run, but on the regular it doesn't serve the narrative to just arbitrarily say "you can't recover strain from rolling well" without some kind of justification for that.
Strain is highly abstract, much more so than wounds. As such, strain is best used as a means of adding tangible flavor to different scenes by quantifying effects that otherwise don't fit easily into the rules (inclement weather, fear, lack of sleep, etc). It's not perfect, and it doesn't always immediately make sense, but with a little creativity and 3-dimensional thinking it shouldn't be that much of a problem, IMHO.
Edited by JonahHexWhy so? It's all about framing a scene. Battles are largely battles of numbers, with lots of the action being abstracted until after the dice are rolled and the numbers accounted for. "Exhaustion" from a bar fight might easily be described as mental stress from concentrating on landing punches and avoiding hitting allies; thus, throwing a good punch or firing a straight shot could bolster one's confidence and recover that strain.
On the other side of the coin, if the GM wants to frame a scene wherein the players are tired from an extended trek out into a blasting desert or steaming jungle, he could simply state that the player's strain thresholds are lowered until they drink some water and get some rest. Doing the same thing during a battle might make sense if the players haven't slept in a long time or if they're tired from a long run, but on the regular it doesn't serve the narrative to just arbitrarily say "you can't recover strain from rolling well" without some kind of justification for that.
Strain is highly abstract, much more so than wounds. As such, strain is best used as a means of adding tangible flavor to different scenes by quantifying effects that otherwise don't fit easily into the rules (inclement weather, fear, lack of sleep, etc). It's not perfect, and it doesn't always immediately make sense, but with a little creativity and 3-dimensional thinking it shouldn't be that much of a problem, IMHO.
Your idea of mental stress from concentrating on fighting is nonsensical. It is an utterly bizarre concept divorced completely from reality.
The example ways of recovering strain are... resting, relaxing and eating. None of these have any parallel with shooting people in the face or having a light saber duel.
The recover strain on advantage mechanic stinks a little of something that got tacked on as it doesn't really match the rest of the book and how it describes what strain is. It certainly doesn't play out well by rewarding shooting a minion over a nemesis to recoup your strain and ends up feeling like many of the very worst video game fights where infinite minions spawn so the player can beat them up to recover their health.
It certainly feels dumb to recover from shock gloves or pushing yourself with extra maneuvers by spending your time using those maneuvers to take the most exhausting actions possible.
Why so? It's all about framing a scene. Battles are largely battles of numbers, with lots of the action being abstracted until after the dice are rolled and the numbers accounted for. "Exhaustion" from a bar fight might easily be described as mental stress from concentrating on landing punches and avoiding hitting allies; thus, throwing a good punch or firing a straight shot could bolster one's confidence and recover that strain.
On the other side of the coin, if the GM wants to frame a scene wherein the players are tired from an extended trek out into a blasting desert or steaming jungle, he could simply state that the player's strain thresholds are lowered until they drink some water and get some rest. Doing the same thing during a battle might make sense if the players haven't slept in a long time or if they're tired from a long run, but on the regular it doesn't serve the narrative to just arbitrarily say "you can't recover strain from rolling well" without some kind of justification for that.
Strain is highly abstract, much more so than wounds. As such, strain is best used as a means of adding tangible flavor to different scenes by quantifying effects that otherwise don't fit easily into the rules (inclement weather, fear, lack of sleep, etc). It's not perfect, and it doesn't always immediately make sense, but with a little creativity and 3-dimensional thinking it shouldn't be that much of a problem, IMHO.
Your idea of mental stress from concentrating on fighting is nonsensical. It is an utterly bizarre concept divorced completely from reality.
Yup. Because we're talking about a Star Wars roleplaying game that's based on framing an entertaining scene rather than simulating reality.
I love the arguments that spawn from an imaginary abstraction of an imaginary universe. Reality doesn't have a lot of value in that context.
As for my original post, I've decided not to implement the house rule. Thanks for everyone's input.
Yup. Because we're talking about a Star Wars roleplaying game that's based on framing an entertaining scene rather than simulating reality.
You're welcome to provide examples of movies where someone concentrated themselves to unconsciousness, because that is exactly the silliness you're talking about. Other than maybe some children's comedy anime, you won't be able to. Because it's nonsensical and would make a bad movie just as it's nonsensical and makes a bad RPG. If you want your Star Wars game to feel like Dragon Ball then play the Dragon Ball RPG.
Yup. Because we're talking about a Star Wars roleplaying game that's based on framing an entertaining scene rather than simulating reality.
You're welcome to provide examples of movies where someone concentrated themselves to unconsciousness, because that is exactly the silliness you're talking about. Other than maybe some children's comedy anime, you won't be able to. Because it's nonsensical and would make a bad movie just as it's nonsensical and makes a bad RPG. If you want your Star Wars game to feel like Dragon Ball then play the Dragon Ball RPG.
That's not what I'm talking about at all. I don't watch anime. But thanks for being so patronizing! 
That's always a great way of getting people to understand your perspective... lol.
If you need an example of this, think about the ongoing narrative of a character in a novel going into a fight nervously but gaining confidence as they win. Or perhaps not confidence, but rather insight into future strategies (think about the Robert Downey Jr. version of Shelock Holmes if you must). Or perhaps neither of those things; maybe they enjoy some stroke of luck. Almost anything can be described as the recovery of strain if you want it to; the specifics aren't a matter of extreme importance and can change drastically from one situation to another.
Or, if you prefer, DON'T. Again, it's an abstraction and it doesn't have to be grounded in any sort of reality. Not every die roll needs to be dissected and explained, it's just a fun thing to do. If it's easier, think of strain as just another number to keep track of in battle to enhance strategy and lend some back-and-forth to various situations.
If that doesn't work, perhaps a different game, maybe...? Justsayin'.
Edited by JonahHex
Yup. Because we're talking about a Star Wars roleplaying game that's based on framing an entertaining scene rather than simulating reality.
You're welcome to provide examples of movies where someone concentrated themselves to unconsciousness, because that is exactly the silliness you're talking about. Other than maybe some children's comedy anime, you won't be able to. Because it's nonsensical and would make a bad movie just as it's nonsensical and makes a bad RPG. If you want your Star Wars game to feel like Dragon Ball then play the Dragon Ball RPG.
That's not what I'm talking about at all. I don't watch anime. But thanks for being so patronizing!
If you need an example of this, think about the ongoing narrative of a character in a novel going into a fight nervously but gaining confidence as they win. Or perhaps not confidence, but rather insight into future strategies (think about the Robert Downey Jr. version of Shelock Holmes if you must). Or perhaps neither of those things; maybe they enjoy some stroke of luck. Almost anything can be described as the recovery of strain if you want it to; the specifics aren't a matter of extreme importance and can change drastically from one situation to another.
Or, if you prefer, DON'T. Again, it's an abstraction and it doesn't have to be grounded in any sort of reality. Not every die roll needs to be dissected and explained, it's just a fun thing to do. If it's easier, think of strain as just another number to keep track of in battle to enhance strategy and lend some back-and-forth to various situations.
If that doesn't work, perhaps a different game, maybe...? Justsayin'.
Or maybe it just feels good to punch someone in the face you don't like.........I've heard anyway............