The other day I was thinking of some new things to throw at my players when the idea of turning a universe freighter into a giant Q-ship popped into my head. While thinking of ways to do this the idea of placing a cobra inside of the ship hit me.

doing a ruff glance at the numbers the universe has about 110 space ( adding in the space taken up by the cargo bays) and a cobra has a space of 35, a little over a third.

I figured before doing any real work on this I would ask if anyone has done something similar and how did it work out?

Now that's an idea.

I haven't personally had much luck sending multiple small ships at a single large player ship, but I really like the concept. If you go through with it, you should keep the square/cube law in mind: the Universe is going to be very big inside. Every doubling of the width and height is going to quadruple your storage space. It's what makes a ship's size and dimensions deceiving.

Doing a (very) rough calculation, the Universe has 20.3km3 internal space, and a Cobra destroyer takes up about 0.2km3... If the Universe had no components in it, it could carry 100 Cobras.

I'll let you decide how much internal space it has for storage and launch cradles for void ships, but that would be a very scary void carrier any way you put it. It also makes me want to mount Improvised Flight Decks on a Universe and take it out as a planetary invasion barge/

Well, the Universe is (IIRC) a ship used to fix other ship or haul giant things, like titans, or some sort of orbital siege fortress for the guard..so pretty sure those 20km3 are mostly free of getting component in the way...

Not seen it done specifically in a 40k setting, but 'battle rider' types are not unknown. The Tau, for example, have an escort design that clings remora-fashion to a mothership. It was designed because the Tau couldn't make interstellar drives small enough for a destroyer to use them, but it wouldn't be impossible to produce a true 'hidden dock'.

Also, note that it needn't be a cobra. If it's got a 'mothership', then it needn't necessarily be warp capable in and of itself. And not needing to make a ship warp-capable means no warp drive or gellar field (because it's riding inside its 'parent's'. Which nets a raider hull something like 11 power and 10 space to spend on making it nastier in a fight...

Sounds like a cool surprise for someone!

The other day I was thinking of some new things to throw at my players when the idea of turning a universe freighter into a giant Q-ship...

What's a Q-ship? Based solely on the coversation up to this point I'm assuming it's a large ship that docks or houses smaller ships for repair/refit and deploy.

The other day I was thinking of some new things to throw at my players when the idea of turning a universe freighter into a giant Q-ship...

What's a Q-ship? Based solely on the coversation up to this point I'm assuming it's a large ship that docks or houses smaller ships for repair/refit and deploy.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q-ship

In short: a merchant ship that has replaced its storage space with weapons and armor, typically for drawing in small, unexpecting hunters. They're a lot of fun too, and a surprise all their own. I'd thought they were in the main book, or in BFK, but I'm probably mistaken.

In short: a merchant ship that has replaced its storage space with weapons and armor, typically for drawing in small, unexpecting hunters. They're a lot of fun too, and a surprise all their own. I'd thought they were in the main book, or in BFK, but I'm probably mistaken.

There's a hull designed for being a Q-Ship in Into the Storm. That doesn't mean it's the only way to build a Q-Ship

The other day I was thinking of some new things to throw at my players when the idea of turning a universe freighter into a giant Q-ship...

What's a Q-ship? Based solely on the coversation up to this point I'm assuming it's a large ship that docks or houses smaller ships for repair/refit and deploy.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q-ship

In short: a merchant ship that has replaced its storage space with weapons and armor, typically for drawing in small, unexpecting hunters. They're a lot of fun too, and a surprise all their own. I'd thought they were in the main book, or in BFK, but I'm probably mistaken.

Neat, this is an awesome idea! You could probably sacrifice more than the Geller Field and Warp Drive as the Cobra could rely on the Auger Array of the Universe Class Mass Conveyor to relay pertinent information during combat. The crew of the Universe could double as the crew of the Cobra, after all the Universe doesn't need to operate at peak efficiency during an encounter and can shunt crew to the Cobra right before launch.

Well, there are System Ships already in the game. If the Universe can be the Super Carrier then it could carry these "Remoras".

The Princely Prosperity

note: I may change the image if I end up drawing something more fitting

Despite their utter and crushing defeat at the hands of the Imperium, the Meritech clans did not give up all their secrets when they were scattered from their strongholds.

The largest secret that even the Inquisition could never confirm was the location of the Meritech Flagship: the Princely Prosperity . It was a huge bulk carrier, and a ship to rival some of the most renowned of the Adeptus Mechanicus Universe-class Conveyors. Despite its stately appearance, the Princely Prosperity was not a trade ship, but a brutal weapon of war meant to slay enemies and crush rebellious strongholds.

Meritech Heretechs built the ship with rows of labyrinthine and unfathomable autoloaders capable of cradling entire warships inside the bulk carrier’s bays. Inside were dense and autonomous systems required to keep so many small remora vessels repaired and ready.

If the Princely Prosperity still exists, and is not just a starry tale told around smoky bars where old voidsmen gather, it likely fled into the Expanse along with the last remnants of the Meritech Clans.

Whoever commands the Princely Prosperity must be a fearsome captain and brilliant leader, able to fend off the worst of the Expanse and steal whatever is needed to keep the ship running.

Dimensions: 11km long, 2.1km abeam, 1.3 km dorsal/ventral loft at the central spire complex

Crew: 80,000 primary crew; 400,000+ secondary remora crew

Accel: 0.5 gravities max

Speed: 2

Detection: +5

Armor: 14

Space: 90

Maneuverability: -20

Hull: 70

Turrets: 2

SP: 80

Primary Components :

Fleet Flag Bridge, Meritech Prosperity-Class Plasma Drives, Secondary Power Genatoria, Voidsmen’s Quarters, Vitae Life Sustainer (equiv.), Gellar Field, Prosperity-Class Warp Engine, Meritech Fleet Augers, Advanced Cogitator

Secondary Components:

Ship Cradles (holding 30 Meritech Remora-class Raiders), Grand Meritech Launch Bays, Manufactorum, Medicae Deck, Fleet Officer’s Quarters, Ship Repair Docks, Extended Supply Vaults, Munitorium, Murder Servitors

Ship Cradles: Giant, heretech structures meant to protect ships inside the Princely Prosperity.

Launch Bays : The Princely Prosperity laughs at Imperial fleet carriers, and instead has huge bays capable of launching and retrieving entire warships at once. The bays can launch or retrieve up to 5 ships per turn with a standard (+0) Command test, or up to 8 ships per turn with a (-20) modifier. Each degree of failure results in 1 Hull Integrity damage to all ships involved; 3 or more degrees of failure jams the bays for 1 turn while a stuck ship is jettisoned.

Fleet Officer’s Quarters : Extensive facilities for the many captains, senior bridge crews, and accompanying staff of the Princely Prosperity . This also contains halls and vaults of various treasures the ship has captured during its voyages.

Ship Repair Docks : Extensive facilities for repairing the remora ships in between engagements. With a supply of materials and components (often from the Manufactorum), the Repair Docks can keep the entire fleet repaired and ready to fight.

Advanced Cogitator : This may be the last surviving Cogitator from the Arch-Heretechs of the Meritech Clans. It grants wide control to the bridge crew, and manages systems the Arch-Heretechs think too demeaning for their own hands. It grants +10 to all Command tests aboard the ship, or +20 to a single command test each turn. If discovered, the Adeptus Mechanicus will stop at nothing to eliminate this affront to the Omnissiah's Laws.

Remora Ships :

Unlike the Shrike-class raiders that have become the living tombstones of the Meritech clans, the Remora-class raiders were smaller system defense vessels. Without warp drives or gellar fields, they were more compact and just as deadly. This made them perfect for the Princely Prosperity .

Treat these as Iconoclast Destroyers in all respects, but remove the need for Warp Drives or Gellar Fields. The Princely Prosperity has many different vessels and types on board, from Lance boats and Macrocannon support raiders, to disruption-cannon armed capture hulls, and even a stealthy reconnaissance vessel. More than once, the captain of a Remora-class raider has asked for (and received) an upgrade after a particularly profitable raid.

...Coming Soon: Admiral Larsen Van Weyden III, leader of the Meritech Clans-in-Exile

Fun bit of trivia- the original description of the Emperor-class battleship had it launching Cobra-class destroyers instead of attack craft, as at that time the Cobra was "too small" for a warp drive. It should be noted at the same time that the Gothic was considered a battleship despite being no larger than several other ships now confirmed to be cruisers (as the Gothic is now considered). Ah, the "good" old days of Space Fleet...

Meritech Admiral Larson Von Weyden III

“The Meritech Clans are not yet defeated!”

-Meritech Admiral Larson Von Weyden the Second, just before his death

The third Admiral Von Weyden (to his Officers), the fearsome Lord Larson (to his crews and terrified victims), or the Void Wolf (to voidsmen scaring new inductees across the Expanse), is the last surviving leader of the Meritech Clans. He leads the Clans-in-Exile from the bridge of his massive dock ship, the Princely Prosperity .

His crew is chosen purely through merit and strength.

Admiral Larson Von Weyden III has the most cunning and powerful military leaders, the most devious and deceitful spies, and the most intelligent and capable advisers, that he can acquire. Each crew member is recruited by capture, dragged aboard and challenged to a contest of skill against other new recruits. The best are inducted into the Princely Prosperity and given menial duties.

Advancement in Admiral Larson Von Weyden III’s crew is claimed by besting a superior in whatever skills they excel at. The best rise to the very top, where the Admiral puts them in charge of entire crews, ships, or operations. Admiral Larson Von Weyden III is still in charge of the Princely Prosperity because he is the smartest, most brutal, and most devious of them all.

He is able to maintain his ship and his Clan-in-Exile because he not only recruits humans from the Imperium, but also because he recruits Adepts of the Omnissiah. As in the Meritech clans of old, Admiral Larson Von Weyden III’s Clan is a split society. The political minds work for profit and plunder, and the mechanical minds work for the Heretech notion of improving technology.

Regular raids throughout the Koronous Expanse allow the Admiral to keep his ship running and crewed, but it has not brought him any closer to his real goal. Every action he takes, every raid he commits, and every piece of technology his craftsmen create for him, is directed towards refounding the Meritech Strongholds.

Admiral Larson Von Weyden III plans this new Empire in his expansive spire-hab at the top of the Princely Prosperity . Built in a perfect spiral, and with hundreds of rooms dedicated to every facet of his desire for progress, the fortress is heavily void shielded against attack from outside or from within. His private guard live and practice just below his quarters, but he is a force to be reckoned with himself.

In the last three centuries, no one has bested him in combat, and he plans to maintain that perfect record until the founding of his new Stronghold.

WS:50 BS:50 S:55 T:45 Ag:45 Int:55 Per:45 WP:50 Fel:35

Talents: Air of Authority, Nerves of Steel, Light Sleeper, Resistance (fear), Swift Attack, Master & Commander, Paranoia, Rival (Imperium), Wall of Steel, Basic Weapons Training, Pistol Weapons Training, Melee Weapons Training

Skills: Awareness, Command +20, Decieve, Dodge, Evaluate, Interrogation, Intimidate +10, Scrutiny +10

Weapons: Best Craftsmanship Power Sword, Best Craftsmanship Compact Storm Bolter

Armor: Best Craftsmanship Heretech Artificer Armor, Conversion Field (AP 50)

well im wondering how long it takes to launch raiders from your q-ship is it quick enough to not give it away before the enemy figures it out? i think the idea you present above fits more in line with a fleet tender or a mobile dry dock.

I think I jotted down the idea of 5 ships per turn, sorta like gigantic launch bays. This felt about right for an emergency launch sorta situation, since that would be ten raiders by the end of two turns, with more arriving every turn. Few fleets in the Expanse could easily deal with that.

And yeah, I felt like a fleet tender was a more apt comparison. It would also be the larger warp container for the fleet as it traveled. This would improve the quality of facilities for everyone and keep the fleet together during jumps (also keeps the need for navigators conveniently low).

very much what i was thinking, but in my mind a large ship that has no escort means it either is a trap or its got nothing i would want. Also if you intent is to take it it would take more than one or two ships so i'm not sure the idea would really be workable if ships started dropping out of it i would be gone before the could engage me.

Thats such an awesome idea. Totally stealing it.

I would definitely consider this as a Wurldbreaka-class enemy: not someone to deal with unless you have a large fleet or an insane captain with a solid boarding idea.

It might also be a fun enemy to have assault an Imperial Navy bastion. While the Imperial Navy deals with all of the destroyers swarming over their defenses, it's left up to the players to single-handedly board and eliminate Admiral Larson Von Weyden III.

Thats such an awesome idea. Totally stealing it.

Please do

The Princely Prosperity

(...)

Nice. Very fitting for a end game boss. My players would want to capture this at any cost.

Makes me think of the Honorverse and Light Attack Craft/LAC Carriers. I love it.

What's the size difference between a (usually) Warp-capable destroyer and something not intended to be Warp-capable, like a defense monitor or system frigate? Might get even more bang for your buck there. I'd also say the "LAC" type ships don't need many of the amenity features of the mothership, being able to access its stores and munitorium, so they should have even more room for weapons with a lessened amount of consumables.

As per HA they are frigate size though you could make them any size were 40k is involved

Secondary Components:

Ship Cradles (holding 30 Meritech Remora-class Raiders)...

Did any serious math go into determining the number of Remora ships contained within the Princely Prosperity or was this just a fitting number off the top of your head?

Nice. Very fitting for a end game boss. My players would want to capture this at any cost.

As any good Rogue Trader crew should.

I did a couple rough calculations earlier, and that works out to about a third of the internal space of the ship, which felt about right once all the other components were taken into account. It also felt appropriate since 30 destroyer-class ships (without the need to provide power to warp drives and gellar fields) will be really strong with the addition of a cruiser or two as escorts.

I should probably look to see how many weapons a Remora class ship could actually handle...