My tedious nature likes to research every **** thing and the comparison sketch by Johnston and the design team as well as a couple of quotes from the time indicates they were originally supposed to be the same as far as speed etc. But i agree that by the time the film was completed its role of fighter bomber was set. But still, i like the idea of the Y being the equal of the X. Nothing against the X WIng it is a lovely ship. But there is something about the Y Wing that stirs my imagination. I suppose it could be a remnant of early frustration that lo those many years ago we got the MPC X WIng model and TIE advanced.But no Y Wing and i always wanted one

My tedious nature likes to research every **** thing and the comparison sketch by Johnston and the design team as well as a couple of quotes from the time indicates they were originally supposed to be the same as far as speed etc. But i agree that by the time the film was completed its role of fighter bomber was set. But still, i like the idea of the Y being the equal of the X. Nothing against the X WIng it is a lovely ship. But there is something about the Y Wing that stirs my imagination. I suppose it could be a remnant of early frustration that lo those many years ago we got the MPC X WIng model and TIE advanced.But no Y Wing and i always wanted one

Well if you consider how much longer the Y-wing was used compared to the X-wing in universe, it really was the "better" ship in that it was harder to completely phase out.

I notice nothing sluggish about the Y-wings flying in ROTJ. At least one survives the waves of TIEs to make the attack on the Death Star.

I have my 2 Y-wings coming in at the end of the month (hopefully) so will try them out then. But I too always liked these. In fact, I can't say I don't like any of the rebel ships - it probably goes something like X, Y, A, B.

I notice nothing sluggish about the Y-wings flying in ROTJ. At least one survives the waves of TIEs to make the attack on the Death Star.

I have my 2 Y-wings coming in at the end of the month (hopefully) so will try them out then. But I too always liked these. In fact, I can't say I don't like any of the rebel ships - it probably goes something like X, Y, A, B.

Perhaps. But likewise, there's nothing in ROTJ either that says Y-Wings have shields or should be more robust than a Tie Fighter either. They get hit, cut to shot of sparks flying in the cockpit, cut to cool explosion.

Going by the movies, you might as well use Tie-Fighter cards for them.

But 30 years of computer-games, EU, novels, comics, etc.. have build up a certain picture of them.

Also keep in mind "sluggish" is a relative term here. In a dog fight the tiniest difference in speed or responsiveness can mean the difference between a miss, a glancing shot, or becoming one with the force. A y-wing is good enough to be a combat vessel so it has to meet certain minimums, it just isn't quite on par with the newer models.

This list is remarkably effective. The Y-Wing providing real all round performance, ionizing targets so the HWK's can chew them up.

Try it, you will be suprized. A variant is to drop an HWK and the shield on the second HWK, then add an Outer Rim Smuggler with a Saboteur and R2's on the Y-Wings.

This list is remarkably effective. The Y-Wing providing real all round performance, ionizing targets so the HWK's can chew them up.

23 points

Gold Squadron Pilot #1

Ion Cannon Turret

23 points

Gold Squadron Pilot #2

Ion Cannon Turret

27 points

Rebel Operative #1

Blaster Turret, Recon Specialist, Shield Upgrade

27 points

Rebel Operative #2

Blaster Turret, Recon Specialist, Shield Upgrade

Try it, you will be suprized. A variant is to drop an HWK and the shield on the second HWK, then add an Outer Rim Smuggler with a Saboteur and R2's on the Y-Wings.

Those are both great lists. slow moving though.

I have had a lot of fun with my 'classic' Y-Wing list.

Horton w/Ion and 3 Gold w/Ion

Or can go with Dutch and more Astromech's.

They're pretty dependable. Turrets are good (particularly Ion), but their primary weapon attack shouldn't be underestimated either. If you want to use torpedoes, some kind of support system will help, either Horton Salm alone, or Jon "Dutch" Vander with another Y-Wing.

Prrrrretty sure the most underrated ship in the game is the Tie Advanced

No way! The only benefit to a TA is the missile slot, which only gives you one premium attack. After that, you can still only shoot 2d each turn. Who wants a slow maneuvering tie fighter with shields? Not me.

I would rather invest in TIEs. Cheaper so you can afford more ships. More firepower off the bat, more hp.

The Advance is the single most survivable small base in the game, one of the more maneuverable (I can't think of anything other than standard tie, interceptor, and A-wing that are better, B-wing might tie depending on how much or how little one values red maneuvers) and has a good action line. Two dice isn't bad even if it isn't powerful. The only downside is that it is the most expensive two attack ship if you discount Outer Rim Smuggler. Yes it is most certainly underrated. Not saying one belongs in every list, but it gets a lot more criticism than it deserves.

Yes it is most certainly underrated.

I don't agree. I think most people who have been around for a while know exactly where to rate the Tie Advanced.

People don't like it for a good reason, yes it offers a lot, but it's still the cost is to high, so I'd say it's not underrated, it's rated quite fairly. As a good ship but a too expensive one.

Fair enough. I know my opinion is in the minority in this case. I recognize that it's an expensive ship to field, I just don't think it is so expensive as to be unplayable.

The TIE Advanced is overcosted by 2 points. You can read through the long thread here for some numerical analysis that I did on it. If you gave it a built-in Fire Control System, it would be on par with the X-wing.

I just don't think it is so expensive as to be unplayable.

I'd say it's not unplayable... Just that when you're playing competitively, there's no reason to include it at the current price, because you can get more bang for your buck elsewhere.

Fair enough. I know my opinion is in the minority in this case. I recognize that it's an expensive ship to field, I just don't think it is so expensive as to be unplayable.

If we could put ion or laser cannons on the TS, I would probably fly it a lot more.

TA is really great if you absolutely want to deliver ordnance behind enemy lines.

I absolutely love Vader in the TA but I can't recall Maarek's special ability being used in play more than once.

Fair enough. I know my opinion is in the minority in this case. I recognize that it's an expensive ship to field, I just don't think it is so expensive as to be unplayable.

I'm with you in that minority. The TA and the X-wing seem to be almost perfectly matched to me. The main difference is that its a defensive ship where the X-wing is an offensive ship, and defensive ships are harder to fly.

I do like how survivable the Advanced happens to be, but the ship is overcosted, and I'm not changing my opinion on that. I mean it's pretty much an A-Wing with another hull point and Barrel Roll instead of Boost. For 22 points I can get a Green Squadron Pilot with PTL or a Blue Squadron Pilot!

Fair enough. I know my opinion is in the minority in this case. I recognize that it's an expensive ship to field, I just don't think it is so expensive as to be unplayable.

I'm with you in that minority. The TA and the X-wing seem to be almost perfectly matched to me. The main difference is that its a defensive ship where the X-wing is an offensive ship, and defensive ships are harder to fly.

Math disagrees. There was a long thread here on "Fixing the TIE Advanced" in which I ran the statistical analysis on relative damage outputs and durability of X-Wings vs TIE Advanced.

Summary points:

• The TIE Advanced is over costed by 2 points. This could be fixed by reducing its cost, or better yet adding a built in Fire Control System.
• Functionally, the TIE Advanced can be directly compared to the A-wing. The TIE Advanced is clearly points wise inferior to the A-wing, and the A-wing itself is already of somewhat questionable value.
• Attack dice are worth more than defense dice. There are several reasons for this, but the most obvious is that there are more hit / crit faces than evade sides.
• Due to Lanchester's Laws, point costs do not need to get very far out of whack before balance issues become fairly significant. Pricing a TIE Advanced at 21 points when it's worth only 19 is sufficiently out of whack that the informed community as a whole generally regards the TIE Advanced as clearly the worst ship. Simplified combat simulations taking into account damage output and durability also bear this out.
• I have never heard of a TIE Advanced squad doing consistently well in a tournament setting. The only other ship with even remotely as blemished a record is the A-wing.

But this thread isn't about the TIE Advanced. It's about Y-wings. And Y-wings are actually OK, except for the distinct lack of EPT.

I love the Y-Wing. It's my favorite ship to fly. It's maneuver dial isn't that great, but I love running ion turrets on them and just disrupting enemy movement. Most rebel squads I run has at least one y wing. I love running Horton, Dutch and Kyle together.

They can take a beating and the Astromech slot is extremely useful. All around I feel the Y-Wing is a great ship. Not as flashy or impressive as a B-Wing, but it has it's place and I feel is underrated.

Sounds like an interesting setup. Kyle passes a focus token to Dutch, Dutch passes a target lock to Horton, and Horton focuses. Both Y-wings get to TL and focus on the same turn - neat!

I think the Y-Wing could need a little push towards its bomber role.

Right now the Y-Wing is used as annoyer (vanilla) and as ionizer - but not as a topedo bomber.

I think the Y-Wing could need a little push towards its bomber role.

Right now the Y-Wing is used as annoyer (vanilla) and as ionizer - but not as a topedo bomber.

torps (and missiles) in the hands of rebels are far to inconsistent. wedge and horton are decent platforms but thats putting way to many points into a ship that is already a target (esp wedge).

I have had fun with Garven, Duch, and a Grey Squadron pilot. It also allows for both Y-Wings to have both focus and TL. But if I just dropped the astromech droids I could replace GSP with Horton.

Y-Wings should get a possibility to reload torps. Like the Attack Wing's style, by deactivating after fired - activating through an action. Maybe realized through a Warhead Magazine upgrade card that uses up a top slot.

[...] And Y-wings are actually OK, except for the distinct lack of EPT.

Which is partially made up for with the Astromech slot. The Glaring issue is the lack of Astromech currently available options. Some of the EPT, Crew, and System Cards. Would make sense as an Astromech - Weapons Engineer, Recon, Sensors, FCS, PTL.

Maybe I'm reading between the lines too much but... my understanding of R5-K6 the wording reads:

"...You cannot spend this target lock during this Attack."

You cannot use Target Lock's Ability to re-roll attack dice for the current attack.

But IF for some reason you have a spare Torpedo just laying around you can still spend the "Newly Acquired" Target Lock to shoot that second torpedo.

"Proton Torpedo: Spend Target Lock to perform this attack"

I think of it as a "Gunner/Luke" for your one-shot Torpedoes.

Likewise while reading it this way would mean after a Primary Attack that you just spent your target lock on IF R5-K6 procs it would allow you to Fire your Torpedo if you still have one equipped. Using it this way would mean if you strip the shields off your target then fire the Torpedo make the Torpedo's built-in Crit effect more effective. (making K6 not only useful on a Y-Wing but an an X-Wing as well)

Also this way of reading the R5-K6 card makes the "random proc chance" for reacquiring target lock more reasonable. And justifies K6 being unique.

furthermore reading between the lines some more FCS reads "...after attacking acquire target lock..." the way it's written there gives the impression the FCS ability only works once the ship's attacking phase is over.

Typed up the other day defending K6 here: http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/94018-dutch-r5-k6/page-2 before striking it out when double checking myself.

If Y-Wings and X-Wings were given an Astromech with a "Gunner" type ability for their Torpedoes Y's would would become the Premier Rebel Bomber over the B-Wing. With it's higher attack and Cannon option the B-Wing has a more Fighter/Bomber feel that a Y-Wing anyway.

If the B-Wing was Missile / Torpedo instead of Torpedo x2 It would reflect better that the Y's are Torpedo Bombers and the B's are Utility Bombers. But you cannot win them all...

Y-Wings should get a possibility to reload torps. Like the Attack Wing's style, by deactivating after fired - activating through an action. Maybe realized through a Warhead Magazine upgrade card that uses up a top slot.

Modification Upgrade - ACTION: Roll 1 attack dice. on a Hit or Focus reactivate 1 Torpedo, Missile, or Bomb. On a Critical Discard 1 Torpedo, Missile, or Bomb.

Think it would look like that. But the other bombers should be allowed to use it not just the Y's. As for a Points projection don't ask me... should be high enough to balanced with Wedge and Rhymer and still be reasonable for the basic multiple ordinance ships.

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Edit: added "Focus" to modification upgrade