Of course I have carried a ton of duffel bags, however mechanically in the game cumbersome's description starts with "a cumbersome weapon is large" goes on to say "to wield a cumbersome weapon" and makes no mention of penalties while carrying a cumbersome item.

Of course I have carried a ton of duffel bags, however mechanically in the game cumbersome's description starts with "a cumbersome weapon is large" goes on to say "to wield a cumbersome weapon" and makes no mention of penalties while carrying a cumbersome item.

It's fairly clear - p155. All checks made while using the item are at -1 for every point of Brawn you are under. So the duffel bag allows you to haul more stuff, but at a penalty unless you are strong. A wookiee won't have many problems, but that slender twi'lek or tiny toydarian would be at -2. Your average human with Brawn 2 would be at -1. That seems about right for carrying a massive bag of stuff around.

As it's unlikely you'll be _using_ the bag as a weapon, I'd say it applied to things like Coordination or Athletics, but maybe attacks as well. Try fighting like an anime hero carting around a big bag stuffed with junk.

I actually like the fact that this game doesn't handwave encumbrance. As opposed to things like Baldur's Gate where you can carry 20-odd suits of armour around with no problems. And don't get me started on things like Final Fantasy... Where do I put my 99 swords again?

I picked up Book Of The Jedi and Book of the Sith. Both mention equipment, such as a Sith Blade which is even able to block a Light Saber.

Cortosis weapons can block lightsabers as well... funny how EotE has a weapon quality for cortosis weapons and armor but only an associated attachment with armor. It's easy enough to extrapolate -- I do cortosis weapons as a 2 Hard Point attachment that costs 5000 credits -- still odd.

I'd do Sith Swords like this;

Melee; Damage +3; Critical Rating 3; Range (Engaged); Encumberance 3 (two-handed); Hard Points 1; Price 10,000 credits; Rarity 10+ (Near Impossible difficulty plus 5 Setback dice to find on the black market); Cumbersome 3, add Dark Side results from Force dice to damage on a successful hit, immune to the Sunder quality

Of course I have carried a ton of duffel bags, however mechanically in the game cumbersome's description starts with "a cumbersome weapon is large" goes on to say "to wield a cumbersome weapon" and makes no mention of penalties while carrying a cumbersome item.

It's fairly clear - p155. All checks made while using the item are at -1 for every point of Brawn you are under. So the duffel bag allows you to haul more stuff, but at a penalty unless you are strong. A wookiee won't have many problems, but that slender twi'lek or tiny toydarian would be at -2. Your average human with Brawn 2 would be at -1. That seems about right for carrying a massive bag of stuff around.

As it's unlikely you'll be _using_ the bag as a weapon, I'd say it applied to things like Coordination or Athletics, but maybe attacks as well. Try fighting like an anime hero carting around a big bag stuffed with junk.

I actually like the fact that this game doesn't handwave encumbrance. As opposed to things like Baldur's Gate where you can carry 20-odd suits of armour around with no problems. And don't get me started on things like Final Fantasy... Where do I put my 99 swords again?

P 155 states "for each point of Brawn the character is deficient, he must increase the difficuty of all checks made while using the weapon by one" - it's an item, not a weapon.

Of course I have carried a ton of duffel bags, however mechanically in the game cumbersome's description starts with "a cumbersome weapon is large" goes on to say "to wield a cumbersome weapon" and makes no mention of penalties while carrying a cumbersome item.

It's fairly clear - p155. All checks made while using the item are at -1 for every point of Brawn you are under. So the duffel bag allows you to haul more stuff, but at a penalty unless you are strong. A wookiee won't have many problems, but that slender twi'lek or tiny toydarian would be at -2. Your average human with Brawn 2 would be at -1. That seems about right for carrying a massive bag of stuff around.

As it's unlikely you'll be _using_ the bag as a weapon, I'd say it applied to things like Coordination or Athletics, but maybe attacks as well. Try fighting like an anime hero carting around a big bag stuffed with junk.

I actually like the fact that this game doesn't handwave encumbrance. As opposed to things like Baldur's Gate where you can carry 20-odd suits of armour around with no problems. And don't get me started on things like Final Fantasy... Where do I put my 99 swords again?

P 155 states "for each point of Brawn the character is deficient, he must increase the difficuty of all checks made while using the weapon by one" - it's an item, not a weapon.

I get what you're saying, but it's easy enough to extrapolate what this means in regards to a spacer's duffel. If you need assistance, grab a duffel bag, fill it with stuff, and practice doing things like climbing, dancing, and punching. If it seems like it would be harder, apply Cumbersome as if the duffel were a weapon and the combat check was some other skill check.

Of course I have carried a ton of duffel bags, however mechanically in the game cumbersome's description starts with "a cumbersome weapon is large" goes on to say "to wield a cumbersome weapon" and makes no mention of penalties while carrying a cumbersome item.

It's fairly clear - p155. All checks made while using the item are at -1 for every point of Brawn you are under. So the duffel bag allows you to haul more stuff, but at a penalty unless you are strong. A wookiee won't have many problems, but that slender twi'lek or tiny toydarian would be at -2. Your average human with Brawn 2 would be at -1. That seems about right for carrying a massive bag of stuff around.

As it's unlikely you'll be _using_ the bag as a weapon, I'd say it applied to things like Coordination or Athletics, but maybe attacks as well. Try fighting like an anime hero carting around a big bag stuffed with junk.

I actually like the fact that this game doesn't handwave encumbrance. As opposed to things like Baldur's Gate where you can carry 20-odd suits of armour around with no problems. And don't get me started on things like Final Fantasy... Where do I put my 99 swords again?

P 155 states "for each point of Brawn the character is deficient, he must increase the difficuty of all checks made while using the weapon by one" - it's an item, not a weapon.

I get what you're saying, but it's easy enough to extrapolate what this means in regards to a spacer's duffel. If you need assistance, grab a duffel bag, fill it with stuff, and practice doing things like climbing, dancing, and punching. If it seems like it would be harder, apply Cumbersome as if the duffel were a weapon and the combat check was some other skill check.

Yes, but the problem is that sometimes it's better to just suck up two more Encumbrance than to have an extra Difficulty die from Cumbersome. IOW, just stuff everything from the bad into your pockets and waistband and you can get around better. Not exactly an appealing ruling.

But I guess you can put the bag down when you need to. Of course you then need. Keep track of the bag whilst engaging in combat.....

I get what you're saying, but it's easy enough to extrapolate what this means in regards to a spacer's duffel. If you need assistance, grab a duffel bag, fill it with stuff, and practice doing things like climbing, dancing, and punching. If it seems like it would be harder, apply Cumbersome as if the duffel were a weapon and the combat check was some other skill check.

I'm looking for a rules as written answer, currently RAW only supports cumbersome on weapons not items. Also, I could fill a backpack with stuff and try those same things, yet a backpack doesn't have cumbersome. A duffel with a shoulder strap worn correctly isn't that much more hindering than a large backpack.

Yes, but the problem is that sometimes it's better to just suck up two more Encumbrance than to have an extra Difficulty die from Cumbersome. IOW, just stuff everything from the bad into your pockets and waistband and you can get around better. Not exactly an appealing ruling.

Exactly, it'd even be better just to get a backpack which increases your encumbrance threshold by 4 with no drawbacks.

But I guess you can put the bag down when you need to. Of course you then need. Keep track of the bag whilst engaging in combat.....

You could just drop the bag, but how much encumbrance threshold does the bag itself have? It increases yours by 2, however that would in my opinion mean that the bag holds much more than that, otherwise the bag can only one heavy blaster? or 2 light blasters?

Exactly, it'd even be better just to get a backpack which increases your encumbrance threshold by 4 with no drawbacks.

That's what bothers me. I guess can be implied that you could carry a duffel bag with a backpack, but you have to have the strength to handle the awkwardness of it, I don't know.

Don't forget if your current encumbrance equals or exceeds your Brawn characteristic you lose your free maneuver each turn regardless of encumbrance threshold.

Um... actually the RAW clearly DOES support Cumbersome being used on something other than a weapon, hence why there's a non-weapon with the quality.

I definitely get what everybody's beef with it is, and I would recommend playing it as you like because it's not that big a deal. My players, however, simply see it as an extra avenue for high-Brawn characters to carry more stuff. Characters with Brawn 2 or less have no interest in carrying one, and if they did it'd be because their existing threshold was already filled and they wanted to go over it without giving up their free maneuver each round.

For me, the bottom line is that, when all is said and done as far as equipment goes, characters with less than Brawn 3 have an encumbrance threshold of 5 + 9 (utility belt/modular backpack/surveyors bag) + Brawn, whereas characters with a Brawn 3 or better have an encumbrance threshold of 5 + 11 (utility belt/modular backpack/surveyor's bag/spacer's duffel) + Brawn. (Both types of characters can also increase their encumbrance threshold by 2 by opting to wear a tracker utility vest instead of armor, but that's besides the point.)

Exactly what equipment is used to increase your encumbrance threshold is flavor to me; it could all be chambers built into their armor/chassis (in the case of droids), it could be a bunch of pockets and pouches like a 90s comic book character, it could be a series of straps and holsters for your weapons... it doesn't really matter as long as you pay the requisite credits and spell it out on your character sheet.

Um... actually the RAW clearly DOES support Cumbersome being used on something other than a weapon, hence why there's a non-weapon with the quality.

I definitely get what everybody's beef with it is, and I would recommend playing it as you like because it's not that big a deal. My players, however, simply see it as an extra avenue for high-Brawn characters to carry more stuff. Characters with Brawn 2 or less have no interest in carrying one, and if they did it'd be because their existing threshold was already filled and they wanted to go over it without giving up their free maneuver each round.

For me, the bottom line is that, when all is said and done as far as equipment goes, characters with less than Brawn 3 have an encumbrance threshold of 5 + 9 (utility belt/modular backpack/surveyors bag) + Brawn, whereas characters with a Brawn 3 or better have an encumbrance threshold of 5 + 11 (utility belt/modular backpack/surveyor's bag/spacer's duffel) + Brawn. (Both types of characters can also increase their encumbrance threshold by 2 by opting to wear a tracker utility vest instead of armor, but that's besides the point.)

Exactly what equipment is used to increase your encumbrance threshold is flavor to me; it could all be chambers built into their armor/chassis (in the case of droids), it could be a bunch of pockets and pouches like a 90s comic book character, it could be a series of straps and holsters for your weapons... it doesn't really matter as long as you pay the requisite credits and spell it out on your character sheet.

You lose the free part of maneuver for current encumbrance equaling or exceding your BRAWN rating only, not exceeding the encumbrance threshold.

Exceeding the encumbrance threshold adds a SetBack die per point over threshold.

Don't forget if your wearing your armor the encumbrance value is reduced by 3.

You lose the free part of maneuver for current encumbrance equaling or exceding your BRAWN rating only, not exceeding the encumbrance threshold.

Exceeding the encumbrance threshold adds a SetBack die per point over threshold.

Sorry, you've definitely read that wrong.

See page 152.

"Characters have an 'encumbrance threshold' of 5 plus their Brawn rating, which limits how much they can carry under normal conditions and without penalty. A total encumbrance value over the threshold means the hero is encumbered and suffers one setback dice to all Agility and Brawn rolls for every point of encumbrance over his limit."

and

"Also, if a character is encumbered by an amount equal to or greater than his Brawn rating, he no longer earns a free maneuver each turn."

It explains this with an example: "With a Brawn of 2, Luke does not get a free maneuver each turn if he's carrying 9 or more points of encumbrance."

So you are definitely reading that wrong, though I can see how you did, it's not particularly clear. You only lose the free maneuver if you are encumbered by an amount greater than your Brawn rating. Otherwise, your average Brawn 2 character would be staggering under the weight of a standard blaster rifle with Enc 4, and that would be silly.

So let's take your standard Brawn 2 guy. As long as he carries his Brawn +5 in Encumbrance, he's fine. No penalties at all. So he carries a vibrosword (enc 3) and a blaster rifle (enc 4) and he's fine, because he's now at his limit of 7.

When he picks up a blaster pistol of Enc 1, that puts him at Enc 8, one over his limit. At this point he is encumbered and takes a Setback dice to his Brawn and Agility rolls.

Now let's say he picks up a disruptor pistol at Enc 2. This now puts him at Enc 10 total, so he gets 3 setback dice instead of one. However, because he's now encumbered and at 3 points over his limit, and this 3 points is greater than his Brawn of 2, he also loses his free maneuver.

So EoE is more realistic than Baldur's Gate, where you can carry around 20-odd suits of armour with no problems. But your average guy won't give himself a hernia by picking up a single rifle either

Fallout 3 and New Vegas is even funnier when it comes to Encumbrance rules.

If you exceed your limit, you move slower and can no longer run. However, there is no upper limit, so you can literally carry an infinite amount of items as long as you don't mind not being able to run...

Regarding the spacer's duffel: I also remember reacting to the Cumbersome quality being added to a big bag, but it makes sense to me. I'd feel it was pointless to give it an Encumbrance value and increase encumbrance threshold, but the large bag should still somehow be different than a backpack, more unwieldy.

To this end I'd say that the Cumbersome quality would come into effect on any Agility and Brawn checks (except Resilience) made while carrying it. Also, such a bag would be larger than a your standard 40-50 litre backpack (the modular backpack going somewhere closer to 75 to 90 litres I'd guess, but it would be made up of separate pouches), so it can fit larger stuff into it than the backpack.

I don't know, there's a lot of nit picking and deterministic, non-pragmatic, rigid and silly readings of the rules here, which goes against what I've come to understand as the intention of the game - most questions posed to the designers are answered with "you could do it like that" or something along those lines. I get it that some people want rigidity, strict rules and an absence of cognitive requirements, but the WotC days for SW are over, luckily. It's your game, if the designers didn't do it as you wanted it to be, shut up and fix it for yourself... isn't the game about playing? or is it about moaning and complaining?

Strangely, if your Brawn is equal to or higher than the Cumbersome value, then you can carry the duffel (or even multiple duffel bags) with no penalty since they allow you to carry more without being encumbered.

What's that? I need to carry my Brawn 3 buddy? He takes up 8 Encumbrance so let me add four spacer's duffel bags to my equipment list and now I can run around with him on my back like he has zero mass!

Or two backpacks should suffice... one on each end? if you only consider encumbrance values and mechanics, and are hell bent on ignoring trying to make sense, sure...

And because of that I started to think about how to make a stretcher for this game, not that it's necessary with a mechanical write up of course, but... you know... it just popped into my head...

Strangely, if your Brawn is equal to or higher than the Cumbersome value, then you can carry the duffel (or even multiple duffel bags) with no penalty since they allow you to carry more without being encumbered.

What's that? I need to carry my Brawn 3 buddy? He takes up 8 Encumbrance so let me add four spacer's duffel bags to my equipment list and now I can run around with him on my back like he has zero mass!

I would absolutely allow it.

...if you chop your buddy up so that he fits inside the duffel bags.

Strangely, if your Brawn is equal to or higher than the Cumbersome value, then you can carry the duffel (or even multiple duffel bags) with no penalty since they allow you to carry more without being encumbered.

What's that? I need to carry my Brawn 3 buddy? He takes up 8 Encumbrance so let me add four spacer's duffel bags to my equipment list and now I can run around with him on my back like he has zero mass!

A couple more steps down that path and we are into the D&D peasant passing territory.

Prepare the quantum chicken launcher! It will be just like AP Physics in highschool. Only this time: I will be busting Physics' balls instead of the other way around.

How much equipment is everyone carrying? I don't think the characters in the movies ever carried all that much stuff so we've kinda followed their example. Apparently, in other games, players have said that they'd rather die than lose equipment. It was easier to come back from death than to replace stuff! One player allegedly started a new character when it happened to him!

At the beginning of the EotE campaign, the GM told us (well... them! I didn't play that other game for long) not to carry that attitude over because it was fairly likely that gear would come and go. At first, people were reluctant to modify gear because they were afraid to lose it but, once we saw it wasn't actually all that common and we often could recover things, that changed. And it isn't like equipment, even modified gear, is all that difficult to replace. A few items you might want are rare but, most stuff you need isn't hard to get. Instead, we're just careful about what we take with us when we go into the field.

Seemed, in the other game, everyone had everything with them at all times. You could go from a royal banquet to a war camp to an underground battle with monsters all with the same pack! In EotE, we figure out what we're taking with us almost any time we leave our ship or whatever other place we're using as a base.

We've lost some equipment over the course of our game but no one seems to mind.. and it even makes people think twice before sinking a lot of time and money into modifying an item while, in that other game, everyone seemed to be looking to squeeze every last plus into everything. They seemed to have every coin they earned - heck, every coin they were ever GOING to earn - earmarked for specific things! I remember finding a magic item and thinking it was amazing and the others saying, "It's crap. Bag it for sale. We can use the gold to buy something useful." Ugh...

I would absolutely allow it.

...if you chop your buddy up so that he fits inside the duffel bags.

Then he can get those AWESOME cybernetics he always wanted. A little green paint.. some long ears... He'll be halfway to a date with a certain female GM we all know and love!

Haley - That is a fairly common attitude amongst certain gamers, but those more familiar with narrative systems such as (WOD, FATE, and hopefully FFG SW) seem to slough it off.

My group tends to have favorite weapons, a bit of armor (usually heavy clothing or armored clothing), and a few choice pieces of gear. Looting simply doesn't happen often.